Which DACs bypass digital filtering?

[asdf1000]

A new iFI diablo iDSD DAC. This is their attempt at an even better micro iDSD DAC.

 

Now features balanced XLR output using included adapter.

 

https://ifi-audio.com/products/idsd-diablo/

[matthias]

38 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

A new iFI diablo iDSD DAC. This is their attempt at an even better micro iDSD DAC.

Now features balanced XLR output using included Adapter.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/idsd-diablo/

 

Hooking up with the Devil…:

MQA, no USB-C input (for USB 3.0)

no thanks

 

Matt

[asdf1000]

28 minutes ago, matthias said:

no USB-C input (for USB 3.0)

 

I believe they include a USB A to USB-C cable...  e.g. if your source only has USB-C ports.

 

Regarding USB 3.0, I don't know if/why USB3.0 would be important for audio though...

 

[matthias]

8 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

I believe they include a USB A to USB-C cable...  e.g. if your source only has USB-C ports.

Regarding USB 3.0, I don't know if/why USB3.0 would be important for audio though...

 

I am just wondering:

Why MQA support?

Why not to establish USB-C for input and output?

 

Matt

[asdf1000]

8 minutes ago, matthias said:

Why MQA support?

 

No idea , that's why I deliberately left that out in my reply 😀

 

8 minutes ago, matthias said:

Why not to establish USB-C for input and output?

 

They like the more solid connection of the male type-A port. I don't have a problem with that to be honest since they supply the cables and 3rd party are very easy to find.

 

USB-C is used for charging...

 

And balanced output for connecting to amps and active speakers! Cool for a little thing.

 

[matthias]

1 hour ago, asdf1000 said:

They like the more solid connection of the male type-A port. I don't have a problem with that to be honest since they supply the cables and 3rd party are very easy to find.

USB-C is used for charging...

And balanced output for connecting to amps and active speakers! Cool for a little Thing.

 

Sorry, just one last comment:

I appreciate the policy of Schiit with new products:

No MQA and USB-C for in and out (Schiit Urd)

 

Matt

[asdf1000]

45 minutes ago, matthias said:

Schiit Urd

 

What is this? Google isn't being helpful to me today.

[matthias]

55 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

What is this? Google isn't being helpful to me today.

 

Urd is the upcoming CD transport with USB output.

Further DDC: USB input to AES/SPDIF output and USB input to USB Unison output.

 

Matt

[botrytis]

An old TEAC UD-501 DAC has the ability to turn off all digital filtering if wanted. 

[asdf1000]

33 minutes ago, botrytis said:

An old TEAC UD-501 DAC has the ability to turn off all digital filtering if wanted. 

 

Yep, that's in the latest list:

 

 

[semente]

A recap of the list so far:

 

- Aqua DACs

- Armature (some models): Asterion (similar to Holo Spring) and Cronos (similar to Denafrips Ares)

- Audio-GD (some models)

- Audiobyte Vox
- Border Patrol

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (some models?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- iFi micro (some models)

- Lampizator

- Metrum Acoustics

- MHDT (some models)

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- Singxer SDA-x family

- RME ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 Pro ADC/DAC

- Rockna DACs

- T+A (some models): DAC 8 DSD, SD 3100 HV, SDV 3100 HV, HA 200

- Teac UD-50x family

- Topping (some AKM models): E30, T70, T90

- TotalDAC (some models?)

[barrows]

I feel the Bricasti M3 and M21 DACs should be on the list, for their discrete DSD conversion side only (PCM is always OS on these DACs).

[semente]

On 4/4/2021 at 3:44 PM, barrows said:

I feel the Bricasti M3 and M21 DACs should be on the list, for their discrete DSD conversion side only (PCM is always OS on these DACs).

 

I looked in the manuals and it seems like they can be run digital filterless when fed DSD (NDSD DSD mode).

Can you confirm that?

Unfortunately its input is limited to DSD128 but that doesn't mean it won't perform brilliantly.

[barrows]

24 minutes ago, semente said:

 

I looked in the manuals and it seems like they can be run digital filterless when fed DSD (NDSD DSD mode).

Can you confirm that?

Unfortunately its input is limited to DSD128 but that doesn't mean it won't perform brilliantly.

Yes, DSD is processed directly by the discrete DSD conversion stage on the M21 and M3 (if one chooses that stage for conversion).  These DACs also currently accept DSD 256 input with the most recent digital input board (Mdx) and firmware.  I run DSD 256 into my M3 all the time via USB from my Sonore Signature Rendu SEoptical acting as NAA for HQPlayer.  Love the sound from the M3 with ASDM7EC modulator going to DSD 256!

[semente]

 

 

Update:

 

- Aqua DACs

- Armature (some models): Asterion (similar to Holo Spring) and Cronos (similar to Denafrips Ares)

- Audio-GD (some models)

- Audiobyte Vox
- Border Patrol

- Bricasti M21 and M3

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (some models?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- iFi micro (some models)

- Lampizator

- Metrum Acoustics

- MHDT (some models)

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- Singxer SDA-x family

- RME ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 Pro ADC/DAC

- Rockna DACs

- T+A (some models): DAC 8 DSD, SD 3100 HV, SDV 3100 HV, HA 200

- Teac UD-50x family

- Topping (some AKM models): E30, T70, T90

- TotalDAC (some models?)

[barrows]

@semente, I would add: "only for the discrete DSD converter" as a caveat to the Bricasti M21/M3 info above.  These DACs do not allow for NOS with PCM content

[semente]

- Aqua DACs

- Armature (some models): Asterion (similar to Holo Spring) and Cronos (similar to Denafrips Ares)

- Audiobyte Vox

- Bricasti M21 and M3 (DSD-only)

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (some models?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- iFi micro (some models)

- Metrum Acoustics

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- Singxer SDA-x family

- RME ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 Pro ADC/DAC

- Rockna DACs

- T+A (some models): DAC 8 DSD, SD 3100 HV, SDV 3100 HV, HA 200

- Teac UD-50x family

- Topping (some AKM models): E30, T70, T90

[ThenewGearPPK]

On 4/24/2021 at 3:20 PM, semente said:

- Aqua DACs

- Armature (some models): Asterion (similar to Holo Spring) and Cronos (similar to Denafrips Ares)

- Audiobyte Vox

- Bricasti M21 and M3 (DSD-only)

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (some models?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- iFi micro (some models)

- Metrum Acoustics

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- Singxer SDA-x family

- RME ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 Pro ADC/DAC

- Rockna DACs

- T+A (some models): DAC 8 DSD, SD 3100 HV, SDV 3100 HV, HA 200

- Teac UD-50x family

- Topping (some AKM models): E30, T70, T90

 

I bet more than half of those are not true NOS & are using a digital filter to emulate NOS,

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

16 minutes ago, ThenewGearPPK said:

 

I bet more than half of those are not true NOS & are using a digital filter to emulate NOS,

 

I'm jumping in late on this one. 

 

What makes you believe half aren't true NOS? Serious question. 

[semente]

39 minutes ago, ThenewGearPPK said:

 

I bet more than half of those are not true NOS & are using a digital filter to emulate NOS,

 

What do you mean by a "digital filter to emulate NOS"?

 

And how much are you willing to bet? 😇

[Jud]

2 hours ago, ThenewGearPPK said:

 

I bet more than half of those are not true NOS

 

Depends whether you are speaking situationally or always. The thread is about DACs that allow digital filtering to be bypassed, depending on input. For Redbook input, I don't *want* to bypass digital filtering. For DSD512 input, very few if any DACs are capable of employing digital filtering, and I wouldn't want digital filtering employed on such input.  So with which DACs can I input DSD (of some given resolution), have the DAC accept it, and run it through the final analog filter?

 

2 hours ago, ThenewGearPPK said:

& are using a digital filter to emulate NOS,

 

 

As others have asked, I'm interested to know what you mean by this, given for example the situation I mentioned above with DSD512 input.

[Miska]

11 hours ago, Jud said:

For DSD512 input, very few if any DACs are capable of employing digital filtering, and I wouldn't want digital filtering employed on such input.

 

AKM in non-direct DSD mode and ESS always run it through digital filter. Not changing sampling rate though.

 

[opus101]

14 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

What makes you believe half aren't true NOS? Serious question. 

 

I suspect 'NOS' no longer has its original meaning of No OverSampling. Any DAC using an S-D modulator cannot be NOS. As far as I'm aware all AKM, Wolfson, Cirrus and ESS DACs are S-D architecture and therefore cannot be NOS in its true sense. (I'm speaking only in the context of PCM here)

[barrows]

6 hours ago, opus101 said:

 

I suspect 'NOS' no longer has its original meaning of No OverSampling. Any DAC using an S-D modulator cannot be NOS. As far as I'm aware all AKM, Wolfson, Cirrus and ESS DACs are S-D architecture and therefore cannot be NOS in its true sense. (I'm speaking only in the context of PCM here)

This is incorrect.  Just because a DAC chip has a SD modulator on board, does not it mean the signal passes through that SD modulator in every configuration: AKM, with their "direct DSD" mode are an example of this (this can be easily understood by looking at AKM data sheets).  My Bricasti M3 has two SD DAC chips on board in a dual mono configuration, but the DAC also has a discrete DSD converter which completely bypasses the DAC chips, so when one sets the DAC to use the discrete DSD converter there is no SD modulator in the signal path.

[opus101]

18 minutes ago, barrows said:

This is incorrect.  Just because a DAC chip has a SD modulator on board, does not it mean the signal passes through that SD modulator in every configuration: AKM, with their "direct DSD" mode are an example of this (this can be easily understood by looking at AKM data sheets).  

 

Yes, that's why I added the qualification in brackets at the end. I wasn't talking about DSD input modes.