Which DACs bypass digital filtering?

[luisma]

On 4/15/2019 at 5:57 PM, Miska said:

You cannot really run an SDM DAC at PCM rate

Hi Jussi, what would it be the definition of n SDM DAC? a DAC chip that always (even when fed PCM) does an SDM internal conversion?  I just found this topic and it seems very interesting for the way we operate our systems.

[semente]

6 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

The Topping AKM DACs don’t have “DSD Direct” mode though, like RME and Teac do.

 

And I need to use the built in digital volume control for built in headphone output. 

 

So should I upsample my PCM content to highest PCM rate instead , with AK4493EQ? Avoid PCM to SDM (DSD) upsampling?

 

 

Em2016, would you mind starting a topic on that subject?

 

This one is about creating a list of high-performance* commercial DACs that allow user to bypass digital filtering (NOS), leaving that task to a software music player such as HQ Player.

[asdf1000]

6 minutes ago, semente said:

 

Em2016, would you mind starting a topic on that subject?

 

This one is about creating a list of high-performance* commercial DACs that allow user to bypass digital filtering (NOS), leaving that task to a software music player such as HQ Player.

 

Sure... but you have AKM based DACs on your list, so it's on topic... and the discussion is direct continuation from earlier posts on this thread, which lead to a couple DACs being added to your list (like the iFi DACs with DSD1793 chip....)

 

My question to Jussi is also based on understanding how to by-pass as much DAC chip internal DSP as possible, to leave to software players... so also on topic...

[semente]

3 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Sure... but you have AKM based DACs on your list, so it's on topic... and the discussion is direct continuation from earlier posts on this thread, which lead to a couple DACs being added to your list (like the iFi DACs with DSD1793 chip....)

 

My question to Jussi is also based on understanding how to by-pass as much DAC chip internal DSP as possible, to leave to software players... so also on topic...

 

It's my thread and I get to say what is an is not on topic. 😉 (AFAIK it's the house policy)

 

Would you please start your own about "AKM: how to by-pass as much DAC chip internal DSP as possible"?

 

Cheers,

R

[asdf1000]

15 minutes ago, semente said:

It's my thread and I get to say what is an is not on topic. 😉 (AFAIK it's the house policy)

 

Fully understand your rights as thread owner. Just tried to point out (unsuccessfully) the above discussion is actually highly related to your thread, for reasons above... 

 

15 minutes ago, semente said:

Would you please start your own

 

Will do.

[jamesg11]

On 7/14/2019 at 5:19 PM, semente said:

 

It's my thread and I get to say what is an is not on topic. 😉 (AFAIK it's the house policy)

 

Would you please start your own about "AKM: how to by-pass as much DAC chip internal DSP as possible"?

 

Cheers,

R

Yes, .... but I thought Em2016’s explanation for being on topic was kosher - so can you give a heads up on it’s shortcomings, to prevent future topic-drift?

[semente]

Any one know of any new models that have come out since March?

 

Update:

 

- Aqua DACs

- Armature Asterion (same as Holo Spring)

- Audio-GD (some models)

- Border Patrol

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (some models?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- iFi micro (some models)

- Lampizator

- Metrum Acoustics

- MHDT (some models)

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- RME ADI-2 DAC

- T+A DAC 8 DSD

- Teac UD-50x family

- TotalDAC (some models?)

[Miska]

14 minutes ago, semente said:

Any one know of any new models that have come out since March?

 

At least T+A SD 3100 HV and SDV 3100 HV.

 

[semente]

Update:

 

- Aqua DACs

- Armature Asterion (same as Holo Spring)

- Audio-GD (some models)

- Border Patrol

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (some models?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- iFi micro (some models)

- Lampizator

- Metrum Acoustics

- MHDT (some models)

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- RME ADI-2 DAC

- T+A DAC 8 DSD, SD 3100 HV, SDV 3100 HV

- Teac UD-50x family

- TotalDAC (some models?)

[yamamoto2002]

I think 10 to 30 years old Goldmund Alize DACs do not have digital oversampling filter. Instead, it has super steep brickwall analog low pass filter of 20 stage or something to cut all noise (aliasing noise which is inevitably generated by non-oversampling digital circuit) above 20kHz. IIRC there is an analog all pass filter circuit cascaded in order to compensate phase distortion caused by analog brickwall filter. It seems output analog signal is clean, similar to the conventional oversampling dac.

[audiofool]

What about the FiiO K5 Pro and the iFi Zen Dac?

[semente]

16 hours ago, audiofool said:

What about the FiiO K5 Pro and the iFi Zen Dac?

Does the FiiO allow the user to bypass the digital filter when fed DSD256?

[audiofool]

I read that the K3 does so I am hoping th K5 also does since it uses the AKM chip.  I was hoping someone knew for sure.  Ideally Miska would test them since they would be inexpensive ways to try DSD.   

[semente]

- Aqua DACs

- Armature Asterion (same as Holo Spring)

- Audio-GD (some models)

- Border Patrol

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (some models?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- iFi micro (some models)

- Lampizator

- Metrum Acoustics

- MHDT (some models)

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- RME ADI-2 DAC

- T+A DAC 8 DSD, SD 3100 HV, SDV 3100 HV

- Teac UD-50x family

- Topping (some AKM models)

- TotalDAC (some models?)

[bilboda]

Add the Singxer SDA 2 (2 C) for DSD. It it even mentions in the manual that it is intended to be compatible with HQPlayer. I use it and like it quite a bit.

[semente]

- Aqua DACs

- Armature Asterion (same as Holo Spring)

- Audio-GD (some models)

- Border Patrol

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (some models?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- iFi micro (some models)

- Lampizator

- Metrum Acoustics

- MHDT (some models)

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- Singxer SDA-2 DAC

- RME ADI-2 DAC

- T+A DAC 8 DSD, SD 3100 HV, SDV 3100 HV

- Teac UD-50x family

- Topping (some AKM models)

- TotalDAC (some models?)

[audiofool]

The FiiO K5 pro brochure claims native DSD 512 decoding.  The digital volume control comes after the AKM4493 chip and is a NJW1195.  Does this indicate they are not using any digital filtering and running the chip in direct mode?  ASR reviewed the DAC in PCM mode and it had good power and was very linear.

Couple of questions for anyone:

1.  I have a i5-6500T CPU @ 2.50GHz, can I run hqplayer at dsd 256 or 512?

2.  Will my NAA support this dac, the dac uses an XMOS XUF208?

[Miska]

1 hour ago, audiofool said:

The FiiO K5 pro brochure claims native DSD 512 decoding.  The digital volume control comes after the AKM4493 chip and is a NJW1195.  Does this indicate they are not using any digital filtering and running the chip in direct mode?

 

That is analog volume control... But it doesn't tell how they are running the DAC chip. But it makes it technically possible to run it in DSD Direct mode while having volume control.

 

1 hour ago, audiofool said:

1.  I have a i5-6500T CPU @ 2.50GHz, can I run hqplayer at dsd 256 or 512?

 

I've run 6600T and 7600T at DSD512 using the older modulators and -2s filters. Likely 6500T can do at least DSD256 with the same. You can just try out and see how it goes...

 

1 hour ago, audiofool said:

2.  Will my NAA support this dac, the dac uses an XMOS XUF208?

 

My next OS and kernel releases should support it.

 

[audiofool]

That's good news about the cpu, appears DSD256 should work.  I have a cubox running NAA, I assume networkaudio already supports the XUF208 and I just need a newer kernel?

 

I've emailed FiiO, is there any other way to determine if it operates in direct mode?   They have a block diagram on their site showing a second order low pass filter after the dac and before the volume control followed by OPA1642 and TPA6120.  https://fiio.com/k5pro

 

 

[asdf1000]

2 hours ago, audiofool said:

I've emailed FiiO, is there any other way to determine if it operates in direct mode?   They have a block diagram on their site showing a second order low pass filter after the dac and before the volume control followed by OPA1642 and TPA6120.  https://fiio.com/k5pro

 

Nice but what FiiO need to confirm is that DSD passes via the DAC chip's 'volume bypass' pathway below,

 

[asdf1000]

@Miska if this FiiO uses 'DSD Direct' at all times for DSD input, it would be really interesting to see if performance is better when fed DSD256/DSD512 !

 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-fiio-k5-pro.9118/

 

[giordy60]

On 14/1/2020 at 09:15, semente said:

- Aqua DAC

- Armature Asterion (uguale Holo primavera)

- Audio-GD (alcuni modelli)

- Pattuglia di confine

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (alcuni modelli?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- IFI micro (alcuni modelli)

- Lampizator

- Metrum Acustica

- MHDT (alcuni modelli)

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- Singxer SDA-2 DAC

- ADI-2 RME DAC

- T + A DAC 8 DSD, SD 3100 HV, SDV 3100 HV

- Teac UD-50x famiglia

- Topping (alcuni modelli AKM)

- TotalDAC (alcuni modelli?)

 

in the list I would add:
- Audiobyte vox-zap
- rockna wavelight

[semente]

- Aqua DACs

- Armature Asterion (same as Holo Spring)

- Audio-GD (some models)

- Audiobyte Vox
- Border Patrol

- Denafrips

- Esoteric (some models?)

- Holo Audio (some models)

- iFi micro (some models)

- Lampizator

- Metrum Acoustics

- MHDT (some models)

- Phasure NOS1 DAC

- Singxer SDA-2 DAC

- RME ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 Pro ADC/DAC

- Rockna DACs

- T+A DAC 8 DSD, SD 3100 HV, SDV 3100 HV

- Teac UD-50x family

- Topping (some AKM models)

- TotalDAC (some models?)

 

[the_bat]

Audio Note UK DAC1 - DAC6

[semente]

7 hours ago, the_bat said:

Audio Note UK DAC1 - DAC6

 

As far as I know they don't take high-res so they don't qualify.

And they have tubes and transformers in the output so they'd go in light grey anyway.