Jump to content
IGNORED

Article: The Music In Me: Rap of History Backwards The


Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I saw Miles twice, and especially the second time, people were dancing their ass off.  He wasn't some withdrawn genius (though genius he was).  He wanted people, to use the title of one of his albums, to Get Up With It.

 

By the way, the second time I saw Miles when he was playing the "dance your ass off" stuff, John McLaughlin was touring with him.

 

It is very often the case that fans draw these bright lines between musical categories that musicians just don't see, because they just love music.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
23 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

There's a guy rapping on the album, right?  Miles was planning on taking him on tour.

 

I saw Miles twice, and especially the second time, people were dancing their ass off.  He wasn't some withdrawn genius (though genius he was).  He wanted people, to use the title of one of his albums, to Get Up With It.

 

Excuse me. I forgot where I was. There is only one person who can be right here at Computer Audiophile and, of course, it is you.

 

Yes, of course, Miles was going to turn into a Hip-Hop artist. How could I have been so blind. 

Link to comment
Just now, Speed Racer said:

 

Excuse me. I forgot where I was. There is only one person who can be right here at Computer Audiophile and, of course, it is you.

 

 

I am very happy when I'm wrong, because it means I'm learning something new.  You'll find many posts here where I thank people for correcting me.  And I'll thank you if you find that I was incorrect in these last statements that Miles had a rapper performing on his last album and planned to take him on tour.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Same jazz critics who deserted him in droves when he left Charlie Parker and be-bop to invent cool (one exception was Ralph Gleason, long time jazz critic and co-founder of Rolling Stone with Jann Wenner; this led to a life long friendship).  Same critics who then deserted him again when he left the cool movement he invented to start fusion.  Sensing a theme here?  Every time Miles moved to a new thing the critics hated it, until they looked back on it as a great classic period when they hated the next new thing he did.

 

How much credence do you suppose Miles gave these critics? How much do you suppose we should?

 

If you know anything at all about Miles and his personality, the idea of him bothering to "sell out" to anyone else's idea of what was good or commercial is pretty funny.

Just because an artist you like goes into a specific direction doesn't always mean you have to "buy into it".   This applies to everyone, jazz critics and fans.  

 

Some of this stuff is certainly experimentation, they try it once just for the experience and if they don't dig it, they do something else,, if they feel there's more to explore, then they'll continue in that direction until they run out of ideas and something to say with that group or musical direction..   Did Miles put out a stream of hip hop albums with gangsta rappers?  NOPE.  Why not?   Hip Hop doesn't always have rappers or DJ's.  You can have Hip Hop style grooves with decent melodies on top, but that doesn't mean a jazz artist like Miles would then be considered a Hip Hop artist.  He just seemed to be experimented with Hip Hop grooves.  Personally I don't member that album too well since I didn't buy it,  so I would have to relisten to it to be reminded of what it was and what is wasn't.  Miles wasn't a Hip Hop artist whether he put out one Hip Hop influenced album.  He was a classically trained jazz musician that experimented throughout his career.

 

I can't seem of find a single artist or band where I like every album they put out equally as much as the others and listen to them equally as much. We all have our favorites that seem to be higher on our own playlists and then others that don't get listened to as much.

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, DRB100 said:

Did Miles put out a stream of hip hop albums with gangsta rappers?  NOPE.  Why not?

 

Umm, 'cause he died?

 

Of course I'm not saying Miles *became* a hip hop artist.  Miles was always Miles and not confined to narrow categories.  But the last couple of albums he made before his death showed his interest in and exploration of funk, and for the last album in particular, hip-hop.

 

So what I'm saying again is that we're all completely entitled to like or dislike whatever we want, but I'd hesitate to dismiss something in which a musician like Miles showed significant interest as musically worthless.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
18 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Umm, 'cause he died?

 

 

Of course, I forgot you have a crystal ball too. Certainly Miles would have found commercial success with his Hip-Hop sound and were have made a dozen Hip-Hop infused albums. These albums would have been viewed as Miles' best work and the whole country would embrace the sound.

Link to comment

Hip hop, rappers, avant garde jazz, street cred, African polyrhythmic cred, pan-cultural philosophy cred: Steve Coleman and the Five Elements. Two rappers in fact. All the musicians in the band could teach a master course in polyrhythms. With Steve, you start with all those ingredients as a base, you shake it up, you get real, and floor it.

Miles Davis tried it, Steve extended it.

De La Soul. Try to say any of their rhymes were "nursery rhymes". Oh, and they and the rest of the Native Tongues freely mixed in jazz, and Tribe even had real musicians the caliber of Ron Carter play on their albums.

You don't have to like it, but real musicians consider it music. Can we please move on?

Late 2012 Mac Mini > Audirvana+3 > iFi Zen Stream > Heimdall 2 USB >  iFi iDSD Micro BL > Pass Labs INT-30A > DeVore The Nines! + REL Strata III

Well-Tempered Amadeus Benz ACE SL > Pass Labs XOno

 

"Water is the most critical resource issue of our lifetime and our children's lifetime. The health of our waters is the principal measure of how we live on the land." - Luna Leopold

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Jud said:

 

Same jazz critics who deserted him in droves when he left Charlie Parker and be-bop to invent cool (one exception was Ralph Gleason, long time jazz critic and co-founder of Rolling Stone with Jann Wenner; this led to a life long friendship).  Same critics who then deserted him again when he left the cool movement he invented to start fusion.  Sensing a theme here?  Every time Miles moved to a new thing the critics hated it, until they looked back on it as a great classic period when they hated the next new thing he did.

 

How much credence do you suppose Miles gave these critics? How much do you suppose we should?

 

If you know anything at all about Miles and his personality, the idea of him bothering to "sell out" to anyone else's idea of what was good or commercial is pretty funny.

I just listened to one song and it sounds like they are using a drum machine loop.  Sorry, that's an instant turn off.  Also, the vocal part is just silly.  If they used an actual drummer and no vocals, it would be a lot better but the background music he's playing on top of is stupid. The rapper is just dumb. Sorry Miles, I won't be buying this.  Like I said. it sounds like a sell out bullshit Miles album.  Just because he did this doesn't make him a Hip Hop artist because he's still playing jazz melody lines, it's the rest of it that's just lame. 

 

 

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Sure. As soon you all let DRB100 have his own opinion without being told he is wrong.

 

 

892768c3b47ee26e155498be3a5466ad.jpg

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

Link to comment
29 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Umm, 'cause he died?

 

Of course I'm not saying Miles *became* a hip hop artist.  Miles was always Miles and not confined to narrow categories.  But the last couple of albums he made before his death showed his interest in and exploration of funk, and for the last album in particular, hip-hop.

 

So what I'm saying again is that we're all completely entitled to like or dislike whatever we want, but I'd hesitate to dismiss something in which a musician like Miles showed significant interest as musically worthless.

That's one way to get out of a record contract or having to put out more albums with gangsta rappers. :-). Putting out Doo Bop is probably what killed him.  He probably pissed off his entire fan base with that garbage.

 

No, Miles wasn't even being a Hip Hop Artist putting that album out because he's playing jazz melodies, it's the others that were creating the backdrop loops, rappers that are the Hip Hop guys, and I would use the term "artists" VERY loosely.

 

Sorry, but Doo Bop album sucks. Now, I have to listen to older Miles with actual musicians to cleanse my soul from the Hip Hop stench.   

 

Ahhhhhhh. That's much better.  Now I feel great again.   

Link to comment

Doo Bop is an easy target: Not jazz enough for dyed-in-the-wool Miles fans, and not hard enough to be real hip hop. Straight up: He picked the wrong hip hop producer. It's a one-off and tough to consider within the rest of Miles' catalog. Remember Jazzmatazz? It had all the right stuff, but was also weak as hell. Watered down hip hop that you can't dance to... what's the point?

 

Instead, try some of the other musicians I mentioned earlier, if you want a true challenge to the arguments you've built up and can't let go of, relevant or not.

 

Try Robert Glasper. Tell me he doesn't have jazz chops. The hip hop on his Black Radio series is real enough to offend any haters in this thread. Really, you might bust a blood vessel cuz it's real rappers and real jazz musicians, all killer no filler.

 

I've tried to shine a light, but now I'm out. Time for me to say: Act like ya know.

 

P.S. All this is making me rip all my hip hop CDs and buy tickets to DJ Premier's show with The Badder Band this weekend. Look Premo up if you don't know who he is.

Late 2012 Mac Mini > Audirvana+3 > iFi Zen Stream > Heimdall 2 USB >  iFi iDSD Micro BL > Pass Labs INT-30A > DeVore The Nines! + REL Strata III

Well-Tempered Amadeus Benz ACE SL > Pass Labs XOno

 

"Water is the most critical resource issue of our lifetime and our children's lifetime. The health of our waters is the principal measure of how we live on the land." - Luna Leopold

 

Link to comment
39 minutes ago, watercourse said:

Doo Bop is an easy target: Not jazz enough for dyed-in-the-wool Miles fans, and not hard enough to be real hip hop. Straight up: He picked the wrong hip hop producer. It's a one-off and tough to consider within the rest of Miles' catalog. Remember Jazzmatazz? It had all the right stuff, but was also weak as hell. Watered down hip hop that you can't dance to... what's the point?

 

Instead, try some of the other musicians I mentioned earlier, if you want a true challenge to the arguments you've built up and can't let go of, relevant or not.

 

Try Robert Glasper. Tell me he doesn't have jazz chops. The hip hop on his Black Radio series is real enough to offend any haters in this thread. Really, you might bust a blood vessel cuz it's real rappers and real jazz musicians, all killer no filler.

 

I've tried to shine a light, but now I'm out. Time for me to say: Act like ya know.

 

P.S. All this is making me rip all my hip hop CDs and buy tickets to DJ Premier's show with The Badder Band this weekend. Look Premo up if you don't know who he is.

Yeah, Miles wasn't even alive during the entire album.. To me, it's just an Easy Mo Bee album where he got Miles to put his parts on top of pre-programmed crap, and then because Miles past away before it finished, they just stuck older Miles performances on top of Easy's loops.  Hardly what a honest jazz album would be. I know why it won the Grammy, but it didn't win for a jazz album it won for a Instrumental performance R&B album. The critics didn't dig it, I'm sure the majority of died hard Miles fans didn't dig it and it was just a last ditch effort for Miles to get attention and experiment with Hip Hop loops, etc. but he wasn't even around during the creation of the whole thing, so he never heard the final mix before being released. I wonder if he would have released it, had he been alive?  Maybe, maybe not. But the Record Label will release anything once a legendary artist dies, just like they released old, unfinished Jimi Hendrix tapes.  It's called MILKING everything they can get from unfinished work.  What a shame.

Link to comment
47 minutes ago, watercourse said:

Doo Bop is an easy target: Not jazz enough for dyed-in-the-wool Miles fans, and not hard enough to be real hip hop. Straight up: He picked the wrong hip hop producer. It's a one-off and tough to consider within the rest of Miles' catalog. Remember Jazzmatazz? It had all the right stuff, but was also weak as hell. Watered down hip hop that you can't dance to... what's the point?

 

Instead, try some of the other musicians I mentioned earlier, if you want a true challenge to the arguments you've built up and can't let go of, relevant or not.

 

Try Robert Glasper. Tell me he doesn't have jazz chops. The hip hop on his Black Radio series is real enough to offend any haters in this thread. Really, you might bust a blood vessel cuz it's real rappers and real jazz musicians, all killer no filler.

 

I've tried to shine a light, but now I'm out. Time for me to say: Act like ya know.

 

P.S. All this is making me rip all my hip hop CDs and buy tickets to DJ Premier's show with The Badder Band this weekend. Look Premo up if you don't know who he is.

Sorry, when someone uses ANYTHING programmed instead of live musicians to play the parts, That's what I consider a demo.  Sorry, I couldn't sit through 2 minutes of the first track. It was just a mess.

 

I'll go back to listening to actual musicians performing together as a group rather than someone overdubbing on top of drum machine tracks and other annoying noises.  It's too bad people like yourself think this is great. I don't. It's not what I feel music is all about.  There is a thing called interaction between musicians that's not happening here.  That's what a lot of this Hip Hop stuff lacks.  No real musicians, no real music.

 

I would practice to recordings by myself, but that's practicing, that's not playing a gig or putting out a record. When I do those, it's with other musicians performing live, HOPEFULLY, at the same time, but unfortunately not always done that way.  It's very difficult putting out great music when you aren't even playing with all the musicians on the song and people overdub days, weeks or months later. I hate those types of recording projects. They usually come out lame unless it's a VERY rigid production of a song where everyone's parts are pre-written and there's no spontaneity involved.  But Jazz is all about spontaneity.  

 

Have you seen Whiplash?  If not, go watch it and think of me as the Band leader hucking the chair at anyone that thinks that drum machines to replace a drummer, overdubs belong in jazz.. They don't. EVER.

 

 

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Again, not saying you have to like it, but:

 

- Who invented fusion?  Miles Davis.

 

- Who did Miles Davis, inventor of fusion and one of the musical giants of the century, then go on to work with for his final album?  That's right, a hip-hop artist.  Good enough musical chops for Miles, good enough for me.

 

Actually, I don't know if Miles actually is responsible for it, but he was there when it was happening, of course.  Actually, I believe John McLaughlin was a large part of that since he had told Miles to get Indian musicians to get involved, so I think it's a collaborative effort.  But John rose fusion to the highest level as he bridged the gap between more music forms than any other on one composition or album(s).  :-)

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Sure. As soon you all let DRB100 have his own opinion without being told he is wrong.

 

It is not that his opinions are wrong, it is the premises that his opinions are drawn from.

 

ANd I don't like rap either - but I recognize it's truth, it's innovation, and the great sound tracks done by Chuck D.

Link to comment
40 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

It is not that his opinions are wrong, it is the premises that his opinions are drawn from.

 

ANd I don't like rap either - but I recognize it's truth, it's innovation, and the great sound tracks done by Chuck D.

Are you a musician?  Just curious.  What premise do you think I'm going by?

 

I am a musician that knows what happens when performing with other musicians vs playing to prerecorded tracks/loops.   There's huge difference between the two. So, if you are a musician that has also done both, then you should understand where I'm coming from.  if you aren't a musician, then you are clueless about the difference because you haven't experienced what musicians have experienced.   I like the energy between musicians performing together, it creates an energy that can't be recreated any other way.  It just can't.  If that's interaction, interplay and being spontaneous that is also generated and drummers play a huge role in the energy behind the music.  They can direct the band in so many ways.  Have you ever heard a horn band play with a crappy drummer and then the same band with a good or great drummer?  It changes the dynamics greatly.  But to play to pre-recorded tracks or loops, it's just not the same thing.  you lose sometjhig in the process. 

 

Are you a programmer that sits in front of a computer creating loops?  I'm just trying to get a better understanding here.

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, rando said:

YfTahlb.jpg    

and they weren't doing it to put out an album to sell it and call it music, now did they?   But I'm sure they weren't using Ebonics, that's for sure.  They probably spoke the same language, right?  Well, if rappers want to sit in a room insulting each other using Ebonics, be my guest, and do it when I'm not around to hear it.. 

 

But to put it out on an album and to try to pass it off as music to make money?  NOPE.   They didn't do that.   Good try.  I'll give you an A for effort but an F for failure to understand the difference.


See how your attempt has failed?  Try again. maybe your second attempt with be better, but please THINK things through.  OK?

Link to comment
23 hours ago, firedog said:

 

 

Degree in music/singing? How is that relevant? I'm pretty sure there are many types of Asian, African, and various indigenous styles of singing not taught at those schools. Doesn't mean they aren't singing or don't exist.

 

Check out the studies that show a larger vocabulary used in rap and hip hop than in lyrics by  Bob Dylan and other forms of sung music.

Your criticisms of slang etc are also meaningless. Just because it isn't standard usage doesn't make it illegitimate linguistically or less sophisticated than standard usage. It's just different.

I won't even get into the history of terms like "axe/aks" which are not simple mispronunciations, but are usages hundreds of years old that originate in African languages spoken by slaves. Sure, they aren't standard pronunciations, but they aren't "mistakes", either. They are simply part of a linguisitic subset of English.

I know of dozens of versions of English spoken around the world. Just because they vary from standard UK or US English it doesn't make them somehow inferior. Dialects are not, by definition, linguistically inferiror, just different.

 

Language isn't static. 

I might not use one of these dialects when writing  an academic theisis, but that is a totally different animal than spoken language. 

 

So you don't mind me calling you a slang derrogitory name? Really?  Oh, OK. then people shouldn't get all bent out of shape when they are called the N word or women called the B word/. So you don't mind communicating with the Ebonics crowd speaking THEIR language, which you probably don't know.  Actually, I was taking quotes from definitions I was reading, so please, leave your diatribe on the sidewalk.  Ebonics, is considered American Black English, which is different than the English that is chosen as the language of the US.  And not all American Blacks speak it or endorse it to be used.  This is based on black friends of mine that can't stand Ebonics being spoken in their household. And they also don't like being referred to as African Americans either, so there are many different views on this subject.


But frankly, I don't speak Ebonics as part of my daily communication it's not part of any form of communication with places of business that I've worked at, and it's not used in any College I've been to and I find it an insult to my intelligence to listen to it and to think it's something people should use, especially in music.  

 

So, I guess you don't mind people calling people names that are slang because it's just, as you say, different., which opens you up to be called a lot of vulgar disgusting names, which you are essentially telling me is OK.

What is acceptable to some people isn't for others.   I don't speak Ebonics as my daily form of communicating with others, I don't WANT to speak Ebonics, and I don't want to listen to Ebonics in music because I think it sounds incredibly dumb and it would sound even worse if they tried to sing melody lines using Ebonics lyrics. If I speak it, it's because I'm making fun of it In a comedic manner with friends of mine that also despise it.  

 

It sounds like you know something about languages, but try taking a song with a melody line that has lyrics that are in English and the replace them with Ebonics lyrics and see if it sounds like it fits and that it sounds good. I highly doubt you can.   Take a jazz standard and replace the English lyrics with Ebonics based lyrics.  See if you think it sounds equal as valid and that the listener won't tell the difference and enjoy both versions.  It hasn't been done by any professional that I'm aware of.

I find Rapping to degrade music, especially when the song has a great melody line and the rapper isn't singing the melody and their voice is more atonal without any musical notes being used.  It just messes up a perfectly good song and then the lyrics that are used are typically dumb, ignorant and childish in nature which makes it even worse.  Go listen to Carlos Santana's remakes with a Rapper. All he's saying is "Carlos Santana is in the house" and dumb statements like that.  He's adding NOTHING worthwhile listening to and all that rapper is doing is destroying the music which stands on it's own.  the same rules apply with the majority of rap music.  

 

Do you speak Ebonics on a regular basis and if not, why not? 

Link to comment

It's kind of hard to ignore Ebonics and Rap if you live in the US.  it's used in TV shows, Movies, people driving around In their cars with their windows open and their stereo is blasting at 100dB+.  I can't always get to the mute on my remote when it comes on the TV while watching a movie or TV show..   I can't even watch certain shows because I know they, at. some point in time are going to play it.   It's offensive on so many levels to me.  The more I hear it, the more I despise it.  And I don't want to have to speak Ebonics just to go along with other members of society that seem to be brainwashed by the popularity of it.

 

I find too much hate speech in Ebonics/Rap music and I find that to be disgusting.

 

One thing I've noticed around where I live. I hear less and less cars with Rap being blasted.  Which is positive, maybe the local police are doing something to take these guys out of the picture so to speak.  At least I'm getting some amount of peace and quiet if that's the result of their efforts.  But it's still difficult to escape it.  I wish the music industry stopped promoting it as well as the TV and movie producers..  But I guess that's the only way they can get young people to watch their programming.

 

You say Ebonics and English are just two different dialects.  To me, one Is vulgar and the other isn't, so to me , they aren't JUST different.  Being different doesn't mean they are both equal in all ways and that either one is acceptable.

 

I could only imagine if the Constitution, Bill of Rights and all laws created in our country were re-written using Ebonics.  God what a nightmare that would be.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, DRB100 said:

 

Do you speak Ebonics on a regular basis and if not, why not? 

 

No, but my parents would speak Yiddish on a regular basis, an expressive patois spoken by a ghettoized minority.  A century after it was widely spoken, some of its words have been adopted into English.  Oddly, no one thinks this is the downfall of the language or the civilization.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
4 hours ago, DRB100 said:

 But to play to pre-recorded tracks or loops, it's just not the same thing.  you lose sometjhig in the process. 

 

I know, think of what The Beatles lost on that horrible Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, etc., by using those tape loops.  Took all the imagination and creativity out of their music.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
5 hours ago, DRB100 said:

Actually, I don't know if Miles actually is responsible for it, but he was there when it was happening, of course.  Actually, I believe John McLaughlin was a large part of that since he had told Miles to get Indian musicians to get involved, so I think it's a collaborative effort.  But John rose fusion to the highest level as he bridged the gap between more music forms than any other on one composition or album(s).  :-)

 

John was and is terrific.  Most folks consider Wayne Shorter's title track to be the first fusion composition.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

John was and is terrific.  Most folks consider Wayne Shorter's title track to be the first fusion composition.

 


I read that Jeremy Stieg's recording of Jan Hammer's Sister Andrea with Jan and Billy Cobham was the first jazz-rock fusion recording.  There are people that intermix the title fusion and jazz-rock fusion.  yeah, I know it gets confusing.  The other argument, which I can understand, is the first example of fusion is probably really, really old that we don't know about since the fundamental concept of fusion is combining 2 or more different musical genres together. There were Latin Jazz being done many years prior to when Miles had his "fusion' recordings, etc.  Cream, which was also around in those days was a fusion band, as they combined blues, and jazz, and African and even some tinges of classical since Jack Bruce was a classically trained cellist, and Ginger Baker was a jazz drummer that also studied African rhythms. I was way into them before I got turned onto Mahavishnu.   The Beatles, in a. way were a fusion band when George Harrison brought Classical Indian into the music, and they did country/folk songs, etc.  

 

I just personally think that in terms of really taking one composition and listening to the various influences of different forms of music from a melodic standpoint, and a rhythmic standpoint, that John's  compositions such as Dream, which I sat down and calculated at least 7 or 8 different music forms hidden in that gem.  There might have been more than that, but that's at least what I counted as I listened to not only John's part, but the other players as well. I could be wrong on a couple of them, but I believe there might have been that many music forms represented, even if it was just a short passage in one of the solos. But the way McLaughlin constructed the melodies, it's clear that several genres were represented in the melody lines that it was just blended so well that one didn't dominate another and that's that brilliance that floored me.  It's hard to blend Classical and Classical Indian microtonal pitch bends and other forms of music into one melody line.  I still enjoy listening to all of the studio and live (even all of the concert tracks on www.concertvault.com) and I will never get tired of what that band represented. They were just set apart from anything else that I've seen and heard over the years.   

 

they were one of the biggest of the fusion bands of that early 70's era when it was at its height, and they were the biggest band in terms of notoriety, and I don't think there's a single band that would want to embarrass themselves by going on after their set.  Especially in '73 when they started to really got used to the material since they rarely practiced before they started touring.  I didn't really care for them being labeled jazz-rock fusion, because I felt they were a lot more than that due to heavy classical (different forms) and classical Indian influences as well as some Celtic, Funk, blues, and whatever else they brought in.  They just were special and it's too bad the first band didn't last longer. Their influence on other fusion musicians, classical musicians, rock musicians, funk, country, Indian, and God knows who else is just limitless.  I saw a country band with a violinist play at a local State Fair many years ago and they were from, I believe, Nashville, and damned if the violinist didn't throw in some Mahavishnu licks in a freaking country song. I was probably the only one in that concert that knew the passage other than the band members.   But it's good to hear that McLaughlin is revisiting that music with his current band for the remainder of the year while on tour.


Either way, I'm glad to have been around when they were touring.  Best concert experience in my life.  I got spoiled by their intensity where it's really hard to listen to anything else afterwards.  


I'm sure there was probably recordings long before the invention of audio recordings that there were musicians from different cultures blending together whatever primitive music forms they had.   I just think the modern jazz/rock fusion (0r whatever one wants to call it) era beginning, at least from my perspective, really started with Miles, but the others like John had a hand in it and I really think it's more of a collaboration effort as each musician brought their own influences into it.

 

 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...