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ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)


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16 hours ago, johndoe21ro said:

Is there a PS Audio Directstream and ISORegen user around here? :D

If you head over to the PSA Forum you will read Paul's and others experience with the DS.  As a DS owner, it's not needed.  

2 ch Setup:

Motorola Modem sb6141> Emo Systems EN-70HD > (5) eero > Synology 1813+ (DSM 6.2), 4TB Seagate NAS Drives, 4GB RAM & Zero Surge & APC XS BX1000G/backup to Synology DX513) > Emo Systems EN-60KDS  > Roon > Mola Mola Tambaqui > BSS BLU 50 > (2) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference

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31 minutes ago, jtwrace said:

If you head over to the PSA Forum you will read Paul's and others experience with the DS.  As a DS owner, it's not needed.  

 

I think you are a bit of an outlier Jason. x-D

Yes, definitely check out the PSA forum.  However, for some reason virtually all the REGEN-related posts there are with regards to the original USB REGEN—which Paul McGowan himself endorsed in his blog in 2016. Seems that only a couple of active PSA forum members have upgraded to the ISO REGEN, yet in fact there are a great many DS users enjoying the combo.

 

Our products are sold with a 30-day, money-back guarantee (with no restock fee), so there is no risk in trying it. :)

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4 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I think you are a bit of an outlier Jason. x-D

Yes, definitely check out the PSA forum.  However, for some reason virtually all the REGEN-related posts there are with regards to the original USB REGEN—which Paul McGowan himself endorsed in his blog in 2016. Seems that only a couple of active PSA forum members have upgraded to the ISO REGEN, yet in fact there are a great many DS users enjoying the combo.

 

Our products are sold with a 30-day, money-back guarantee (with no restock fee), so there is no risk in trying it. :)

Paul & Ted must have done some objective testing then as his recent comments are against them.

2 ch Setup:

Motorola Modem sb6141> Emo Systems EN-70HD > (5) eero > Synology 1813+ (DSM 6.2), 4TB Seagate NAS Drives, 4GB RAM & Zero Surge & APC XS BX1000G/backup to Synology DX513) > Emo Systems EN-60KDS  > Roon > Mola Mola Tambaqui > BSS BLU 50 > (2) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference

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14 minutes ago, jtwrace said:

Paul & Ted must have done some objective testing then as his recent comments are against them.

 

No, I think they must have based their comments on theory and not actual testing since, AFAIK neither of them has ever tried the ISO REGEN.

I can’t seem to find any recent comments from either of them with regards the REGEN.  How about you sent me some links in a PM?

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  • 2 weeks later...

So gents, first off, I apologise if this issue has been discussed. This thread is now 38 pages and I have trouble sifting through to get the answers.

 

Basically, I received my ISO Regen a couple months back. Plugged it in, not realising the GI was in the disable position. Been using it lightly since I was just also assigned on a major project at work. At that time, I noted that the USB connection will disconnect after an  hour or so of playing music and sometime, not connecting at all.

 

I had not time to investigate until last week. First I took the LPS1.2 out of the equation and power direct via JS2. Same thing, disconnected after an hour. Then I realised the GI was switched off. Switching it on, I notice clicks and pops during passage of the music.

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt it is a grounding issue. My equipment as below :

 

Preamp : Accupahse C2850

DAC DC37

Server : DIY server powered by JS2

All power cords are Ansuz US plugs connected to Accuphase power regenerator

Power amp : Accuphase A45

Power regenerator and power amp connected to Ansuz powerboard.

 

Any help will be much appreciated as I am on the verge of giving up soon.

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8 hours ago, coeuslee said:

So gents, first off, I apologise if this issue has been discussed. This thread is now 38 pages and I have trouble sifting through to get the answers.

 

Basically, I received my ISO Regen a couple months back. Plugged it in, not realising the GI was in the disable position. Been using it lightly since I was just also assigned on a major project at work. At that time, I noted that the USB connection will disconnect after an  hour or so of playing music and sometime, not connecting at all.

 

I had not time to investigate until last week. First I took the LPS1.2 out of the equation and power direct via JS2. Same thing, disconnected after an hour. Then I realised the GI was switched off. Switching it on, I notice clicks and pops during passage of the music.

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt it is a grounding issue. My equipment as below :

 

Preamp : Accupahse C2850

DAC DC37

Server : DIY server powered by JS2

All power cords are Ansuz US plugs connected to Accuphase power regenerator

Power amp : Accuphase A45

Power regenerator and power amp connected to Ansuz powerboard.

 

Any help will be much appreciated as I am on the verge of giving up soon.

 

Hi:

A couple of thoughts and questions for you, but we can assist you better if you contact us directly.  

 

You mention that your ISO REGEN had the switch set with galvanic isolation defeated (the up, "ON" position).  The way you said it implied that it came to you that way.  But since we NEVER ship them with the switch up--it is always down with GI enabled--I made me wonder if your ISO REGEN is a second-hand unit, which means it is possible that it is very early one.  Would be good to know that.

 

What USB cable are you using between your music server and the ISO REGEN?  The Silanna galvanic isolator chip at the input of the ISO REGEN is not very tolerant of out-of-spec USB cables on its input side (the ISO REGEN output can drive any cable), and a fair number of "audiophile" USB cables fall into that category.  You can test that by trying the 6-inch generic cable we ship with the ISO REGEN or some other generic USB printer cable--from the computer to the ISO REGEN.

 

The JS-2 "floats" its DC outputs (no connection to mains ground except for chassis and transformer for safety), so with it powering your DIY server your source does not have much in the way of true ground connection (except perhaps though other devices you have hooked to the server).  In some cases the ISO REGEN really prefers to have the USB input side well grounded (again the not-effect Silanna isolator chip), so you might want to read this post:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31877-iso-regen-listening-impressions-kicked-off-with-some-measurements/?page=24&tab=comments#comment-714912

 

Based on what you reported, I would certainly start with changing the USB cable between your server and the ISO REGEN.

 

Have a great weekend,

--Alex C.

 

P.S.  My apologies.  I just noticed that one of the e-mails awaiting my reply was from you from yesterday.  We can pick up the troubleshooting off-line there. :) 

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Another thing to try would be to connect whatever is directly downstream to your ISO REGEN (the DC37?) directly to a grounded outlet. Going through a power conditioner could adversely affect the grounding.

 

It may sound strange, but that's exactly what happened in my case. My ISO REGEN was feeding my Chord DAVE which happened to be connected to ground through a Supra mains block using one of the filtered sockets. When I switched to an unfiltered socket on the same mains block the problem disappeared. Somehow the more direct connection to ground solved the issue.

 

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First of all, I must admit a couple of elementary mistakes here.... embarassing facts actually....

 

As Alex pointed out, the unit did come with the GI switched at down on at "I" position. I had assumed the "on" position means GI is on.

 

Secondly, while fiddling yesterday, I noticed that the "red light" at the back was not lighted when I lose connection, which suggested to me there is some power issue. I suspect that the Oyaide plugs does not connect well on the Regen power input due to the weight of the plug (by the way, should it be a 2.1mm or 2.5mm input plug?). I have since added extra Silicon rings to support the connection. So far no drop outs this morning (fingers crossed).

 

I will report back after the next few days to confirm this finding.

 

Also to clarify, the ticks happened when the GI switched off. With the GI on, music flows beautiful. I understand that my DAC has GI on the USB input side, but even this, I found some improvement with the Regen. Volume seemed abit attenuated but I am also hearing better separation and imaging. 

 

Once again, apologies for raising the alarm bell and for the embarrassing nature of the user error. Really appreciate this community support.

 

PS : I use Acoustic Revive USB cable.

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10 minutes ago, coeuslee said:

First of all, I must admit a couple of elementary mistakes here.... embarassing facts actually....

 

As Alex pointed out, the unit did come with the GI switched at down on at "I" position. I had assumed the "on" position means GI is on.

 

Secondly, while fiddling yesterday, I noticed that the "red light" at the back was not lighted when I lose connection, which suggested to me there is some power issue. I suspect that the Oyaide plugs does not connect well on the Regen power input due to the weight of the plug (by the way, should it be a 2.1mm or 2.5mm input plug?). I have since added extra Silicon rings to support the connection. So far no drop outs this morning (fingers crossed).

 

Wow, thanks for your report about it.  Very interesting.  The DC jack of the ISO REGEN (and the UltraCap LPS-1.2) is 5.5mm x 2.1mm.

 

10 minutes ago, coeuslee said:

Also to clarify, the ticks happened when the GI switched off.

 

Well that's slightly odd, yet it clearly indicates that the GI is helpful and that the ticks are not due to the ISO REGEN or some grounding issue.

 

10 minutes ago, coeuslee said:

With the GI on, music flows beautiful. I understand that my DAC has GI on the USB input side, but even this, I found some improvement with the Regen. Volume seemed abit attenuated but I am also hearing better separation and imaging.

 

Nice to hear--and not surprising.  :D Enjoy!

 

10 minutes ago, coeuslee said:

Once again, apologies for raising the alarm bell and for the embarrassing nature of the user error. Really appreciate this community support.

 

Of course!!

 

10 minutes ago, coeuslee said:

PS : I use Acoustic Revive USB cable.

 

I have heard very nice things about that cable.

Best,

--Alex C.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

Alex... don't remember what colour ISO Regen's LED is supposed to be when working fine: red?

(it's always been hidden behind something so... :( )

 

thanks

Qnap HS-251+ NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 running Roon ROCK (powered by a ZeroZone 19v/5A LPS) > Lumin U1 Mini (powered by a Vinnie Rossi Mini Pure-DC-4EVR LPS) >  UpTone Audio ISO Regen (powered by an Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2) > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier + First Watt SIT 3  power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III

 

headphones system:

Cirrus 7 > Lumin U1 Mini > Metrum Adagio > Pathos Aurium amplifier (powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Focal Clear headphones

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5 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

Alex... don't remember what colour ISO Regen's LED is supposed to be when working fine: red?

 

Hi Paulo:

Yes, the ISO REGEN's LED is always red.  Unlike with the UltraCap power supplies, the LED on our REGENs does not change color.

USB REGEN LED is amber/orange, ISO REGEN is red.  Don't ask why we did it this way.  I know it is confusing for people who have an UltraCap supply as for those red is the "bad", no output color. 9_9

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yup: green for first batch Regens, then amber then... red ?

 

?

 

thank you just got a new DAC (in signature ;) ) and wondering why no USB signal: guess it's because of the non 5v bus cable *after* the ISO ?

Qnap HS-251+ NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 running Roon ROCK (powered by a ZeroZone 19v/5A LPS) > Lumin U1 Mini (powered by a Vinnie Rossi Mini Pure-DC-4EVR LPS) >  UpTone Audio ISO Regen (powered by an Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2) > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier + First Watt SIT 3  power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III

 

headphones system:

Cirrus 7 > Lumin U1 Mini > Metrum Adagio > Pathos Aurium amplifier (powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Focal Clear headphones

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24 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I know it is confusing for people who have an UltraCap supply as for those red is the "bad"

Yes we (that's a royal we) are easily confused.  And not amused.  

NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10 Version 2004/HDPLEX 300W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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On 8/5/2017 at 4:08 PM, Always.Learning said:

Good point, Rajiv, about the benefits of listening/evaluating after removing a component. Sometimes I think the best A/B comparison, assuming A has been in your system and you have become familiar with it, is to stick B in and let it sit there for days, weeks, even months (if you can be that patient) -- i.e., lots of listening sessions. Just let it marinate. Then go back to A and you can get a pretty good idea about both A and B at that point in not much time at all. 

 

Jon

 

I like this idea as it resolves 'training effects'

 

A combination of extended listening and quick switching (if feasible) is always a good idea.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Depends on what you mean by "isolation".  The Ethernet connection just has data lines, there is no "ground" (unless you are using shielded cable with a metal plug that connects to ground). The issue is leakage flowing through the data lines.

 

For the 4 copper jacks on the "dirty side", there are normal transformers on each port. These provide galvanic isolation between each port, and low impedance leakage isolation. They do not provide high impedance leakage isolation. That is where the "grounding' comes in. The ground connection shunts the high impedance leakage to the safety ground (assuming it is properly connected), bypassing the switch. Remember the SMPS that UpTone provides is already grounded.

 

If you use a non-grounded PS, and don't ground the switch, high impedance leakage going into one of the dirty ports will be coupled to all of them. The "clean" port will always isolate leakage current (both types) from any of the "dirty" ports.

 

 

John S.

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2 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Depends on what you mean by "isolation".  The Ethernet connection...

 

Great answer John, but I think Sean's question was with regards to the red switch on the ISO REGEN--as this is the ISO REGEN thread.

Guess someone has EtherREGEN on the brain 24/7, eh? (That's a good thing!) x-D

 

Maybe you can answer the same question with regards the Silanna isolator at the input of the ISO REGEN and what effect defeating the ground plane isolation with the switch has on the D+/D- lines going through it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, Chiler54 said:

Are there any Chord Dac owners who use an Iso Regen?
What are the experiences?

 

Sure, from elsewhere in this very thread:

 

With Chord TT:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31877-iso-regen-listening-impressions-kicked-off-with-some-measurements/?do=findComment&comment=738270

 

With DAVE:

(There are actually quite a few Dave owners using ISO REGEN.  I know there are a bunch of Qutest users too, but I'm not seeing posts in this thread.  Have to search our e-mail testimonial box.)

 

 

 

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+1 Iso regen improves the SQ with my Qutest. A solid DAC at the moment just running off the Switching supply. 

Powering the Iso regen is my LPS1.

Alex and John are cornering the input market with thier leading products. My Qutest sounds simply better with them both cleaning up the signal.

Never an issue with recommendations.

 

I hope this helps @Chiler54

 

Just a nice company..

 

 

 

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