ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[hurka]

I like iso regen without iso option,switch turned off.

tested with sw .on,sound not so airy ,not deep

[Cornan]

51 minutes ago, hurka said:

I like iso regen without iso option,switch turned off.

tested with sw .on,sound not so airy ,not deep

 

If you still have a Regen Amber/Green in the drawer a tip is to have it pre the ISO Regen and try again with ISO on. You might be surprised!

 

 

[hurka]

I'm surprised with off.sorry ,don't und.you,i have one one regen extra.i need connected serial?

[Cornan]

16 minutes ago, hurka said:

I'm surprised with off.sorry ,don't und.you,i have one one regen extra.i need connected serial?

 

I was surpriced that my ISO Regen sounded better with ISO off too. Here is a picture of my Regen Amber into ISO Regen. A picture is better than many words!

 

 

Not sure yet why the Regen Amber improve IR in my setup with ISO on, but the first clue is that it is Regen Ambers voltage regulator that do the magic. I have ordered a bunch of LT3045 voltage regulator to find out if this is the case.

[fsmithjack]

I use the old Regen and new ISO Regen but I don't use them back to back. Is that something I should try? With both the old and the new I run with LPS-1 and run the MR with JS2. 

 

I run PC / FiOs Router / LPS > Vodka RJ/E > Netgear Swith / JS2 > Cardas Clear RJ/E > MR / JS2 > USPCB > Regen 1 / LPS-1 > Tellarium Q Black Diamond USB > ISO Regen / LPS-1 > Curious Regen Link USB cable - 

 

Do you guys think I should put my 2 - Regens in a row back to back with the 2 LPS-1's using both USPCB's!

 

 

i actually like the JS2 running the microRendu better than the LPS-1 also but the Regen's are much better with the LPS-1.

 

Is the ultra Rendu that much better than a 1.4 Rendu? Just curious?

yhx 

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, fsmithjack said:

I use the old Regen and new ISO Regen but I don't use them back to back. Is that something I should try? With both the old and the new I run with LPS-1 and run the MR with JS2. 

 

I run PC / FiOs Router / LPS > Vodka RJ/E > Netgear Swith / JS2 > Cardas Clear RJ/E > MR / JS2 > USPCB > Regen 1 / LPS-1 > Tellarium Q Black Diamond USB > ISO Regen / LPS-1 > Curious Regen Link USB cable - 

 

Do you guys think I should put my 2 - Regens in a row back to back with the 2 LPS-1's using both USPCB's!

 

It is surely worth a try, especially if you have found that the ISO Regen sounds better with ISO off. Please do report back your findings of you do try it.

[fsmithjack]

So I just left it how I got and it's a little confusing where marked off means it's on correct? 

[Cornan]

14 minutes ago, fsmithjack said:

So I just left it how I got and it's a little confusing where marked off means it's on correct? 

 

Yes it is a bit confusing, but It is correct! On is off! ?

[hurka]

in my chain alredy use 3 independent ultracap psu rails, 1allo  sparky sbc -2 iso regen off-3.singxer f1-dac

my r2r dac feed other 12!!! independent rail u cap psu !!!!so I don't using transformers.only for  preamp and monos.

you think one more regen+7v u cap psu helps??? I'm so happy now,just iso regen switch off, worse.

I'm not using any lt 3042 or 3045 regulators in my dac.Clean power come from u caps.Before I'm trialed this regulators,i have many at my home.its good,but no need.

other:

iso regen usb input feed  with extra u cap psu 5v helps?(think nobody trialed)

[Cornan]

Interesting! Did you try the LT3045 in series? Drop-down from 7v>6v>5v for example. 

 

I have tried ISO Regen with 5v injection using a Teradak Y-split into a floating SMPS. Sounded best with ISO off with IR. However, using Regen Amber as a voltage regulator for IR with ISO on improved upon it.

[hurka]

If you don't using uptone lps1`s,the next best option battery-regulator Lt 1963+heatsink-3x2.7v u capacitor-Regen

[hurka]

I'm trialed : iso trafo - r core trafo- lt 1963- lt 3042.- not the best

[sdube]

After all the exchanges here, let me come in as something of a dissenter. I  found that using the Ifi USB 3 and the Amber Regen -- all on JS-2, the latter on LPS-1 -- before the Iso Regen (on an LPS-1 on JS-2), didn't help anyway. Going the most direct way has been the best. Here, the sound was better -- and there were no drops -- with ISO off given the proclivities of my Berkeley Alpha USB. However, following Alex's advice, grounding the ISO R -- to defeat the Berkeley Alpha floating USB ground -- and turning on the Galvanic Isolation has provided an incredible boost in sound- and music-quality. The changes to my system in the signature line are the use of an LH Lightspeed 10 instead of the Curious USB, the former sounding way better. And I am soon going to replace this with the UPSCB A>B -- staying away from the Tellurium Silver Diamond USB that I had considered before finding out the reasons why it has been discontinued -- going from Mac Mini into ISo Regen going into another UPSCB A>B into the Berkeley Alpha USB and onwards. Doubt if I have the time or desire to monkey any further with  Ifi USB 3 and/or the Amber Regen after/before the Berkeley. The Ifi USB 3 and Amber Regen are comfortably ensconced in my desk system. On the regular rig, I am transported by the music, especially in the wake of the dreadful earthquake in Mexico City. Now, can someone please tell me how to edit my signature line?

[guzmanatm]

On 9/20/2017 at 7:48 PM, SWL3600 said:

Right now I'm using the ISO-REGEN, LPS-1 combo and really like it.

 

Considering adding a Microrendu. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? 

 

Thanks!

 

For me it was absolutely worth it adding the microRendu. I have a (relatively) modest setup: LPS-1, IsoRegen, iFi micro iDSD, and Neco v5 amp. I got slick deal on a used MR to replace my dedicated MBP as a source and the difference is dramatic . . . Substantial SQ improvements across the board-- more so than I was expecting. Probably just as dramatic as replacing my USB Regen with the IsoRegen, which was itself a considerable improvement.

 

Right now I'm powering both the IsoRegen and MR from the same LPS-1 using a DC Y-cable. I have the UpTone USPCB adapter between the MR and IsoRegen. This setup works like a charm and sounds outstanding.

 

I'm now considering an additional LPS so the MR and IsoRegen each have their own power supply and I can do away with the Y cable. I'm still not sure what LPS to get, but I'm trying to keep it in the $100 range. However, my system sounds great right now so I'm really not in any rush. I am also considering sending the MR back to Sonore to receive the 1.4 upgrade, but I'll probably hold off until next year when I plan on replacing my DAC.

[JohnSwenson]

14 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I was surpriced that my ISO Regen sounded better with ISO off too. Here is a picture of my Regen Amber into ISO Regen. A picture is better than many words!

 

 

Not sure yet why the Regen Amber improve IR in my setup with ISO on, but the first clue is that it is Regen Ambers voltage regulator that do the magic. I have ordered a bunch of LT3045 voltage regulator to find out if this is the case.

Hi Cornan,

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about the LT3042 and VBUS. The VBUS regulator for BOTH the USB REGEN and the ISO REGEN is the TPS7A4700. The LT3042 regulators are used in the ISO REGEN for everything else, both sides of the ISO chip, the two hub chip voltages and the clock of course.

 

So feeding an ISO REGEN from a USB REGEN is NOT feeding the upstream VBUS from a LT3042, but all the circuitry inside the ISO REGEN ARE fed from LT3042 regulators already in there. So I'm a little confused by what you are trying to say.

 

John S.

[Cornan]

32 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Hi Cornan,

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about the LT3042 and VBUS. The VBUS regulator for BOTH the USB REGEN and the ISO REGEN is the TPS7A4700. The LT3042 regulators are used in the ISO REGEN for everything else, both sides of the ISO chip, the two hub chip voltages and the clock of course.

 

So feeding an ISO REGEN from a USB REGEN is NOT feeding the upstream VBUS from a LT3042, but all the circuitry inside the ISO REGEN ARE fed from LT3042 regulators already in there. So I'm a little confused by what you are trying to say.

 

John S.

 

Hi John!

 

I am trying to understand why a Regen Amber feeding a ISO Regen increase SQ in my setup with GI on. Without the Regen Amber feeding the ISO Regen it sounds hollow and thin. Using a Teradak USB Y-split cable with injection into ISO Regen improves SQ, but only still better with GI off. 

 

My ISO Regen is powered by a floating SMPS. The power leg to the Teradak USB Y-split is connected to a DC starquad Y-split powering both Aqvox switch and ISO Regens 5v injection via a floating SMPS. When I used the Regen Amber as a voltage regulator for the Aqvox switch (Regen Ambers DC input into starquad DC Y-split cable with power from floating SMPS and a USB to DC starquad into Aqvox) the SQ decreased. That made me think that there was a internal leakage loop of some king going on, and the USB voltage regulator of Regen Amber helped to filter or block this loop. This is ofcourse just a theory so far and I want to find out IF using external voltage regulators (2 pcs LT3045 in series with voltage drop down from 9v>8v>7v) pre ISO Regens DC input could isolate the leakage. It is all a mystery and an experiment from my side to find out the Regen Amber pre ISO Regen mystery.

 

If you have a better suggestion I am all ears! ?

 

[pl_svn]

ok: yesterday I tried turning ISO Regen's GI switch off and... I'm still very happy: listening to my system just the way I do when *listening to music* I couldn't hear any difference

 

I did it because almost everything in the chain (Aries, ISO Regen, Audiophilleo SE, Chord 2Qute, all tubes pre and power amplifier) either has galvanic isolation or is powered by "isolating LPS/transformers" (Vinnie Rossi Mini PurePower-4EVR, UpTone Audio LPS-1, Audiophilleo battery, Alpha-Core BP-30) and "funny" things where happening when switching on/off my tube preamplifier (Audiophilleo's battery starting/stopping recharging and 2Qute's status light turning on/off)

 

Leaving as it is now 

[jrd1975]

Had my IR for about two weeks now. Been holding off posting as have been struggling to hear significant differences over the RUR it replaced, testament to the LPS-1 providing the power I suggest.

 

Anyway tonight listening to the new Amadou & Mariam album in MQA via A+ it has all clicked into place. It's superb! But that could be the half a bottle of red.... which is a lot for me as I am pretty moderate nowadays!

 

Joking aside like a good wine, like a good album, to me the IR is a grower. Subtle differences, but definite gradual improvements, I hear day after day as it settles ( or I settle ).

 

I would like to say that whilst I was waiting for my IR the thread with Amirs measurements was in full flow - which subconciously had an impact on my initial enjoyment of my purchase. In fact I was close to cancelling my order. 

 

Well I am glad I stayed strong and it's now paying off.

 

Cheers Uptone thanks for proving ( and reminding me ) that music is more about belief than science.

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, jrd1975 said:

Cheers Uptone thanks for proving ( and reminding me ) that music is more about belief than science.

 

Well thanks much for that, yet I caution that our products--and refined sound in general--are not at all about belief.   

 

Rather they are about correct application of science and empirical testing. Yes, for now there are a number of areas of computer audio that do not lend themselves to striking differences in a traditional FFT (unless you want to get hung up on some still bedeviling low level leakage current anomalies which are tough to stamp put).

 

There is broad consensus among those who use their ears (and have a good sense of music beyond just listening "at" the sound) that ultra-low-phase noise clocking (in DACs and upstream), carefully done power networks (both macro and micro), signal integrity (even in USB and Ethernet), and finely tuned digital filters (either in the DAC or done via s/w) all add up to profound effects on realism.

 

The above factors are all denied and ridiculed by those who look only to the "grass" of their FFT plots for validation of what most of us have little trouble discerning.  So those folks dismiss--and miss out on--the benefits of a quality music server, linear power supplies, good cabling, isolation and signal integrity optimization, improve clocking, and high performance digital filters/dithering.

 

In the end--and using history as a guide (medical science observed/tested/prescribed cures in advance of technology that could fully measure; early DAC makers were improving the SQ of their designs with better clocking before the impacts of jitter was well understood or measured)--I am confident that pioneering engineers (John Swenson or others) will develop tests that graphically show the impact (yes, even at the analog output) of many of the upstream variables that thousands worldwide are already "tweaking" to improve their music systems.

Will such new, finer granularity graphs and measures tell you whether "A" or "B" sounds more like music?  Probably not.  But they will be useful to designers and should result in more products that reproduce more satisfying music--to YOUR EARS.  And that's what really counts, yes?

 

Have a nice weekend all,

--Alex C.

[Matias]

On 18/09/2017 at 9:32 PM, Matias said:

@Superdad

After a few months with my ISO Regen I definitely find it a lot more sensitive than the USB Regen. I leave the ISO Regen on during the day, and at night I turn the DAC and amps on, most times the DAC is not found  by Win10. Even when it is, there is some popping and clicking going on. I have then to power the ISO Regen off and on, then it works. And I think I may be hearing some clicking sometimes, or maybe I have gone crazy. It is really this sensitive?

@Superdad did you see my post above?

[fsmithjack]

Music may very well be - about - well music - and that's cool - I get it - but being a red blooded - meat eating - raging Audiophile trying to get out in front of the daily emerging digital world tracking and hunting down distortion and jidder like it's your job even though it's not - well that's something else!!! 

 

i respect the guy/gal that rocks their Harmon integrated with lampshade power cord and their techniques TT and JBL Heresy speakers and Radio Shack speaker cables. Those systems are pretty dang musical and actually make music that sounds quite pleasant - no doubt!! 

 

Loading up on UpTone Audios assorted Powers supplies and USB solutions with ole pair of Magico 3-ways that are super low distortion combined with some Pass Labs 700 wpc good old Solid State horsepower - yup - now we're taking some music !!! 

[Summit]

13 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Well thanks much for that, yet I caution that our products--and refined sound in general--are not at all about belief.   

 

Rather they are about correct application of science and empirical testing. Yes, for now there are a number of areas of computer audio that do not lend themselves to striking differences in a traditional FFT (unless you want to get hung up on some still bedeviling low level leakage current anomalies which are tough to stamp put).

 

There is broad consensus among those who use their ears (and have a good sense of music beyond just listening "at" the sound) that ultra-low-phase noise clocking (in DACs and upstream), carefully done power networks (both macro and micro), signal integrity (even in USB and Ethernet), and finely tuned digital filters (either in the DAC or done via s/w) all add up to profound effects on realism.

 

The above factors are all denied and ridiculed by those who look only to the "grass" of their FFT plots for validation of what most of us have little trouble discerning.  So those folks dismiss--and miss out on--the benefits of a quality music server, linear power supplies, good cabling, isolation and signal integrity optimization, improve clocking, and high performance digital filters/dithering.

 

In the end--and using history as a guide (medical science observed/tested/prescribed cures in advance of technology that could fully measure; early DAC makers were improving the SQ of their designs with better clocking before the impacts of jitter was well understood or measured)--I am confident that pioneering engineers (John Swenson or others) will develop tests that graphically show the impact (yes, even at the analog output) of many of the upstream variables that thousands worldwide are already "tweaking" to improve their music systems.

Will such new, finer granularity graphs and measures tell you whether "A" or "B" sounds more like music?  Probably not.  But they will be useful to designers and should result in more products that reproduce more satisfying music--to YOUR EARS.  And that's what really counts, yes?

 

Have a nice weekend all,

--Alex C.

 

I agree, the best way to define if something sounds good or not is to use your ear. I will like to add that the best way to determine if something taste good or not is to eat it, not to measure it. The best way to determine if something have a good scent or not is to smell on it, not to measure it. The best way to determine if you love someone or not is to spend some time with him or her. I could go on…

 

Then it comes to HIFI, words like neutral and true to the source seems to be of more importance than good sound, to some people. Many are those that believe measurements not only can indicate the sound from a gear, they think measurements is a better way of determine the sound quality than to simply listen.

 

Maybe the reasons measurements has gotten so important to so many are:

1. Audio gear are mostly used in an audio system with many other components, all with their own sound. So the question is do this last audio component sound correct, neutral etc. or is it just fixing/balancing a flaw that some other component in the audio chain makes? If it does then it may not be very good together with component a, b and c, but great with gear d and f. Yes it’s really hard (next to impossible) to determine if one component is natural, neutral, too smooth or too thin etc just by changing one component in a whole system. A reference system is needed and no reference system is perfect, so what sounds good in one reference system and compared to other named audio gear in that system is the best we can do. Many subjective reports form a sort of understanding of how one audio component affect the sound and what’s the dividing factors are.    
2. People (me included) like easy answers like 41, even to complex things like SQ. Data can give an easy and in a perfect world credible data on some meaningful aspects, measured one by one and not multifaceted.
3. Bias and preference will affect our judgment and everyone can be affected in one way or the other. This is most problematic in the short run (A-B test situations) and if preference is not acknowledged. Over longer periods and with many other audio components to test the bias effect will decrease to almost none over time IME. Many good and experienced reviewer test one audio equipment’s for a long time and together with many other gear before publishing their impressions.      
4. Measurements can be reputable, but rooms, power grid quality and the combination of audio gear is often not the same. The quality of the room, placement etc. can make as big if not bigger affect than any change of reasonable good audio gear ever can.

[Abtr]

On ‎14‎-‎7‎-‎2017 at 9:50 PM, Indydan said:

Has anybody tried the ISO Regen plugged after the Intona Industrial?

 

I mean computer to Intona, then into ISO Regen, then into DAC. I already own the Intona and I am thinking of buying the ISO Regen. I am wondering if Alex or anyone else knows, or thinks that the Intona - ISO Regen combo, would be better than ISO Regen alone.

 

In my system I get random pops with the Iso Regen/LPS-1 combo. My DAC (Schiit Modi Multibit) doesn't have galvanic isolation of the USB circuitry, so Alex's 'ground the USB to the DAC's chassis suggestion' doesn't work here. What did work was turning the galvanic isolation of the Regen off (ON). Now I get the best SQ with an Intona USB isolator before Iso Regen..  
 

[fsmithjack]

I think they all pop a bit between source swaps and on/off but that should be the only time? Gain in your system has more to do with that though...

[Abtr]

34 minutes ago, fsmithjack said:

I think they all pop a bit between source swaps and on/off but that should be the only time? Gain in your system has more to do with that though...

 

The combo randomly produced a popping/clicking sound through the speakers, once every 10 minutes on average, while playing music. With the Intona this is now gone without a noticeable loss of sound quality..