Confused Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Any recommendations for good quality but not ridiculously expensive BNC terminating plugs? Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
mourip Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I started cheap on Ebay with some that were rated at 1% for the resistor value. - Material: Brass - Finish: Nickel Plated ( Pin - Gold Plated) - Resister: 75 Ohm, 1/2 Watt, 1% "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
Popular Post mourip Posted October 13, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2017 I have been wanting to try out the Mutec REF10 reference clock in my Dante/RedNet system after hearing such good things about it, especially after having found the Mutec 3+ USB to be such an excellent product. I contacted the US distributor to arrange for a trial purchase with the idea that I might do a review and post my findings. The distributor was extremely cooperative and only asked that they be allowed to fact check before I posted. They have done that and had no comments to add. I asked for the trial because I would be purchasing a piece of interface equipment that cost more than my DAC and adding it to a front end that was already over the edge. If it did not work out I wanted to be able to return it! The Short Version: I purchased the REF10. It is a keeper. The Long Version: I was hoping to get an improvement in sound quality but not to the extent that occurred. To add icing on the cake it has also allowed me to drop two pieces of equipment from my chain which had become extreme even by audiophool standards. My system before adding the REF10 consisted of: 1. “CAPS-like” server running Windows Server 2012R2 and Audiophile Optimizer. Powered by LPS. 2. Dante Virtual Soundcard (DVS) software which allows JRMC to send the audio stream out via an ethernet port instead of USB 3. A PCIe fiber optic ethernet card with fiber running to a Fiber Media Converter(FMC) and then via CAT7 cable into the Focusrite RedNet D16 AES ethernet to AES/SPDIF converter. 4. Antelope LiveClock as external wordclock to the D16 5. AES cable out from D16 to Mutec 3+ USB interface acting as a re-clocker. 6. AES cable out to a second Mutec 3+ USB interface acting as a second re-clocker. 7. AES out to Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC. This is the order in which I tested the REF10 and coincidentally the order in which I preferred the sound. The biggest jumps were step 2 and step 5. Adding the REF10 made an immediate improvement in refinement which increased as I simplified my chain. 1. RedNet D16 using LiveClock as wclk/ M3USB#1 as re-clocker/ M3USB#2 as 2nd re-clocker 2. RedNet D16 using LiveClock as wclk/ REF10 as 10M reference to both M3USBs and to the LiveClock/ M3USB#1 as re-clocker/ M3USB#2 as 2nd re-clocker 3. RedNet D16 using M3USB#2 as wclk (LiveClock removed) / REF10 as 10M reference to both M3USBs / M3USB#1 as re-clocker/ M3USB#2 as 2nd re-clocker/ 4. RedNet D16 now using M3USB#1 as wclk / REF10 as 10M reference to both M3USBs/ M3USB#1 as re-clocker/ M3USB#2 as 2nd re-clocker 5. RedNet D16 using M3USB#1 as wclk and with REF10 as 10M reference/ M3USB#1 as the only re-clocker/ (M3USB#2 removed) Note: When you add an external 10M reference clock source to the Mutec 3+ USB it then allows you to use its wordclock output to clock another device like the D16. *Warning: Purely subjective observations to follow which may not be appropriate for all viewing audiences. To my ears and in my system and in my room the overall effect of adding the REF10 was to create a much more natural, refined and realistic sound. Nearly all aspects of music were improved for me even dynamics, soundstage localization, and depth. It is basically a more engaging overall presentation with subtle notes and decay being more apparent with a very realistic tonal balance. Musical threads by individual instruments are now very easily followed. Music is much more like a living, moving tapestry. I mostly listen to acoustic music, preferring classical and Jazz, from small ensembles to the over the top “big print” Russian Romantics. I now listen more to the music and less to the equipment. This is the highest praise that I can think of. Notes: Originally adding the second Mutec USB had added a questionable improvement. Adding the LiveClock to the D16 added a clear improvement but adding the LiveClock to the M3USB degraded the sound. After adding the REF10 to the M3USB I found that the wclk output from the M3USB was now available and sounded much better than that of the LiveClock which I removed. Even by itself the RedNet D16 was an improvement over my previous USB chain which included a Regen run from LPS, the M3USB using its USB input, and AES out. BTW. To my ears even the D16 by itself using AES out was better than the new GEN5 USB board in my Yggdrasil DAC. It has been a long and winding road! mozes, SwissBear, Confused and 5 others 1 5 2 "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
zoltan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 8 hours ago, mourip said: Notes: Originally adding the second Mutec USB had added a questionable improvement. Adding the LiveClock to the D16 added a clear improvement but adding the LiveClock to the M3USB degraded the sound. After adding the REF10 to the M3USB I found that the wclk output from the M3USB was now available and sounded much better than that of the LiveClock which I removed. Even by itself the RedNet D16 was an improvement over my previous USB chain which included a Regen run from LPS, the M3USB using its USB input, and AES out. BTW. To my ears even the D16 by itself using AES out was better than the new GEN5 USB board in my Yggdrasil DAC. It has been a long and winding road! 3 Have you tried the WCLK from one MC3+USB to the second or feeding both from the Ref10? I have found that even if there is a reference clock (Ref10 for me, too) two MC3+USB units sound better than one. HQplayer - NAA - Devialet D-800 - YG Acoustics Carmel + dual ELAC sub-2090 Link to comment
mourip Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 3 hours ago, zoltan said: Have you tried the WCLK from one MC3+USB to the second or feeding both from the Ref10? I have found that even if there is a reference clock (Ref10 for me, too) two MC3+USB units sound better than one. Tests 2,3, and 4 all used two M3USBs for serial re-clocking and both received a 10m clock from the REF10. I found that just using one as in test #5 sounded the best to me. I still own the second M3USB and might circle back to try it again once my ears get used to the new sound. Although I did not mention it above my D16 was previously modified to use an external LPS so that might change the landscape a bit. During REF10 testing only the D16 was using an LPS. After the testing I did modify one M3USB to also use an LPS. That made another nice improvement... at the expense of my warranty! "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
Kritpoon Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Has anyone try any aftermarket AC Power Chord with the REF10? I wounder if there would be any improvements? Thank you. "Its the REF clock that makes it all so good..." Link to comment
julian.david Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 On 10/13/2017 at 4:23 PM, mourip said: I have been wanting to try out the Mutec REF10 reference clock in my Dante/RedNet system after hearing such good things about it, especially after having found the Mutec 3+ USB to be such an excellent product. I contacted the US distributor to arrange for a trial purchase with the idea that I might do a review and post my findings. The distributor was extremely cooperative and only asked that they be allowed to fact check before I posted. They have done that and had no comments to add. I asked for the trial because I would be purchasing a piece of interface equipment that cost more than my DAC and adding it to a front end that was already over the edge. If it did not work out I wanted to be able to return it! The Short Version: I purchased the REF10. It is a keeper. The Long Version: I was hoping to get an improvement in sound quality but not to the extent that occurred. To add icing on the cake it has also allowed me to drop two pieces of equipment from my chain which had become extreme even by audiophool standards. My system before adding the REF10 consisted of: 1. “CAPS-like” server running Windows Server 2012R2 and Audiophile Optimizer. Powered by LPS. 2. Dante Virtual Soundcard (DVS) software which allows JRMC to send the audio stream out via an ethernet port instead of USB 3. A PCIe fiber optic ethernet card with fiber running to a Fiber Media Converter(FMC) and then via CAT7 cable into the Focusrite RedNet D16 AES ethernet to AES/SPDIF converter. 4. Antelope LiveClock as external wordclock to the D16 5. AES cable out from D16 to Mutec 3+ USB interface acting as a re-clocker. 6. AES cable out to a second Mutec 3+ USB interface acting as a second re-clocker. 7. AES out to Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC. This is the order in which I tested the REF10 and coincidentally the order in which I preferred the sound. The biggest jumps were step 2 and step 5. Adding the REF10 made an immediate improvement in refinement which increased as I simplified my chain. 1. RedNet D16 using LiveClock as wclk/ M3USB#1 as re-clocker/ M3USB#2 as 2nd re-clocker 2. RedNet D16 using LiveClock as wclk/ REF10 as 10M reference to both M3USBs and to the LiveClock/ M3USB#1 as re-clocker/ M3USB#2 as 2nd re-clocker 3. RedNet D16 using M3USB#2 as wclk (LiveClock removed) / REF10 as 10M reference to both M3USBs / M3USB#1 as re-clocker/ M3USB#2 as 2nd re-clocker/ 4. RedNet D16 now using M3USB#1 as wclk / REF10 as 10M reference to both M3USBs/ M3USB#1 as re-clocker/ M3USB#2 as 2nd re-clocker 5. RedNet D16 using M3USB#1 as wclk and with REF10 as 10M reference/ M3USB#1 as the only re-clocker/ (M3USB#2 removed) Note: When you add an external 10M reference clock source to the Mutec 3+ USB it then allows you to use its wordclock output to clock another device like the D16. *Warning: Purely subjective observations to follow which may not be appropriate for all viewing audiences. To my ears and in my system and in my room the overall effect of adding the REF10 was to create a much more natural, refined and realistic sound. Nearly all aspects of music were improved for me even dynamics, soundstage localization, and depth. It is basically a more engaging overall presentation with subtle notes and decay being more apparent with a very realistic tonal balance. Musical threads by individual instruments are now very easily followed. Music is much more like a living, moving tapestry. I mostly listen to acoustic music, preferring classical and Jazz, from small ensembles to the over the top “big print” Russian Romantics. I now listen more to the music and less to the equipment. This is the highest praise that I can think of. Notes: Originally adding the second Mutec USB had added a questionable improvement. Adding the LiveClock to the D16 added a clear improvement but adding the LiveClock to the M3USB degraded the sound. After adding the REF10 to the M3USB I found that the wclk output from the M3USB was now available and sounded much better than that of the LiveClock which I removed. Even by itself the RedNet D16 was an improvement over my previous USB chain which included a Regen run from LPS, the M3USB using its USB input, and AES out. BTW. To my ears even the D16 by itself using AES out was better than the new GEN5 USB board in my Yggdrasil DAC. It has been a long and winding road! Thanks so much for your in-depth review!! Julian MUTEC GmbH Marketing Associate Email [email protected] Web www.mutec-net.com Link to comment
Miko Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 On 9/12/2017 at 1:34 PM, julian.david said: I've recently become a dad and had to pull back a little. Congratulations!!!! Best wishes for a happy and healthy baby!!!! julian.david 1 Link to comment
beessy Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Regarding DCS Network Bridge (NB) locked from Ref-10 / MC-3+,Mc-3+ has 6 world clock outputs but for only one reference sample rate (32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz)For using both NB word clock inputs, you have to use two mc-3+, one for 44.1kHz and one for 48kHzFor using single NB word clock input with one mc-3+, you have to set manually the clock out rate at 44.1kHz or 48kHz on mc-3+(depends of track sample rate to play).A tips for those who have only one mc-3+ and don't want to switch manually the clock out : - on mc-3+ set the clock out at 44.1kHz- in NB settings, set dsd downsampling ’on’ (optional if you dac is dsd compliant)- from your external audio server, upsample all your tracks to dsd64 or dsd128 OR - on mc-3+ set the clock out at (44.1kHz) or (48kHz)- from your external audio server, convert all the tracks to (44.1kHz or 88.2kHz or 176.4kHz) or (48kHz, 96kHz, 192kHz) In these cases, NB will be always locked whatever the sample rate of original track Here the settings of mc-3+ feeding 48kHz world clock to NB. Here the settings of mc-3+ synchronised by ref-10 feeding 48kHz world clock to NB. Link to comment
mecani Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 there is another possibility with a single mc3 from one of the outputs of nb not used for example the coaxial to the input of the mc3 and put the mc3 in external position reclok in this way manual change is not necessary Link to comment
mecani Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I have connected the nb to the dac by aes ebu the two clock inputs from nb to mc3 the mc3 with external clock ref 10 and then the digital coaxial output of the nb to the mc3 input I'm not doing reclocker it's just for the mc3 to know what frequency is being played Link to comment
beessy Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 mecani, you mean : - connect NB spdif out to mc-3+ spdif in - connect mc-3+ word clock out to NB word clock in - on mc-3+, put these setting It seems to work, but the NB is not locked at the very beginning of played track. Before streaming out the word clock to NB, mc-3+ needs : - to receive the incoming stream from NB - to synchronize with ref10 It takes about 1s-2s. So the NB begin to play the track and locks after 1s-2s. I don't know if NB applies in real time an external clocking when a track is already playing. If not, it can be an issue if you play tracks with differents sample rates. In addition, in this RE-CLK mode, mc-3+ performs more operations than INTERN or EXTERN mode. Maybe Word clock streaming is more accurate in INTERN or EXTERN mode. Of course, all of this need to be confirmed with some comparisons or maybe mutec / DCS can reply. Link to comment
soundlogic Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Is there anyone that is following this thread...using a PS Audio Directstream DAC and Mutec MC3+ with a 10 mgz.Ref. clock? I would love to hear your experience. I have been told by one forum member that the Direcstream DAC would NOT benefit from a master clock... Thanks in advance for your input. Link to comment
Tand Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Christmas came early. Just ordered a Ref10 to my Mutec and Rednet. Has anyone used Ghents 75ohm clock cable? They offer a 0,5 m to 15 usd on their homepage. Tommy Link to comment
mitch751 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Please allow me to ask a question, which has been confusing me for quite some time. I have been told by adding Mutec MC3 USB+, there will be a signifcant improvement on every DAC (not matter how good it is). I understand this Mutec MC3 is just a reclocker, which many good DACs have already Built in, in this case, why should I need it ? People keep on telling me how important is the master clock, if this is the case, why many good grade DACs do not have an wclock in / out for external master clock? If reclocker has already done the job, why should extra Master clock need to be added on ? B&W 800 Diamond D2, Goldmund Eidos Reference CD, Goldmund Telos 600, Goldmund Mimesis 32, Cello Audio Palette MIV.[br]MacBook Pro, LIO, Mytek 192, HD800, Luxman SQ-38U, Luxman MQ-88u Link to comment
modmix Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 The goal is to have as little jitter as possible when the digital-to-analog conversion is performed. If neither the source nor the transmission adds a significant amount of jitter or, if the DAC has a good re-clocking implemented, adding a MC-3+ makes little or no sense at all. In case the DAC uses it own clock, the clock must be adjusted to the actual sample rate (in order not to loose samples or to create drop-outs). Some DAC internal circuit (PLL or the like) will perform that based on the input data stream. Having an external wclock could be useful (but that has also some drawbacks in some cases). In short: no simple answer for these "simple" questions - sorry. Ulli Link to comment
mitch751 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 11 hours ago, modmix said: The goal is to have as little jitter as possible when the digital-to-analog conversion is performed. If neither the source nor the transmission adds a significant amount of jitter or, if the DAC has a good re-clocking implemented, adding a MC-3+ makes little or no sense at all. In case the DAC uses it own clock, the clock must be adjusted to the actual sample rate (in order not to loose samples or to create drop-outs). Some DAC internal circuit (PLL or the like) will perform that based on the input data stream. Having an external wclock could be useful (but that has also some drawbacks in some cases). In short: no simple answer for these "simple" questions - sorry. Ulli thank you so much for the answer, I am thinking to buy a MUTEC MC3 USB, plus this master reference clock, however, my LIO Dac and Goldmund Reference CD, do not have wclock in and out, will it helps ? B&W 800 Diamond D2, Goldmund Eidos Reference CD, Goldmund Telos 600, Goldmund Mimesis 32, Cello Audio Palette MIV.[br]MacBook Pro, LIO, Mytek 192, HD800, Luxman SQ-38U, Luxman MQ-88u Link to comment
modmix Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Don't know the dacs mentioned by you. Wclock at the dac is not a "conditio sine qua non" - you might try... Link to comment
mitch751 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, modmix said: Don't know the dacs mentioned by you. Wclock at the dac is not a "conditio sine qua non" - you might try... Thank you, I just ordered a MC3+USB, and let have a try before the Ref 10. B&W 800 Diamond D2, Goldmund Eidos Reference CD, Goldmund Telos 600, Goldmund Mimesis 32, Cello Audio Palette MIV.[br]MacBook Pro, LIO, Mytek 192, HD800, Luxman SQ-38U, Luxman MQ-88u Link to comment
mitch751 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Ok just ordered both. Waiting for the agent to ship will post here after a listening B&W 800 Diamond D2, Goldmund Eidos Reference CD, Goldmund Telos 600, Goldmund Mimesis 32, Cello Audio Palette MIV.[br]MacBook Pro, LIO, Mytek 192, HD800, Luxman SQ-38U, Luxman MQ-88u Link to comment
nbpf Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 2 hours ago, mitch751 said: Ok just ordered both. Waiting for the agent to ship will post here after a listening I am looking forward to read your findings, which DAC do you plan to feed via the Mutec? Link to comment
mitch751 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Hello, I have two system, one is LIO http://www.vinnierossi.com/lio-dsdpcm-dac/ as a Dac (v.2) and feeds from my Goldmund Eidos Reference CD or MacBook Pro The another one is Mytek 192 It will take two to three weeks for the combo to deliver Will post here with my finding B&W 800 Diamond D2, Goldmund Eidos Reference CD, Goldmund Telos 600, Goldmund Mimesis 32, Cello Audio Palette MIV.[br]MacBook Pro, LIO, Mytek 192, HD800, Luxman SQ-38U, Luxman MQ-88u Link to comment
afrancois Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Don't want to spoil the party, but highly regarded designers as Rob Watts from Chord and Paul McGowan from PS Audio are essentially saying that external clocks are worthless when it comes to enhancing audio quality. Paul is a bit more cautious: he says when you have better sound that it has nothing to do with the accuracy of the clock!. Nevertheless, some weeks ago I've ordered my REF 10 based on experiences from computeraudiophile members. It will probably be delivered next Monday or Tuesday. I know the subject remains highly controversial, but I will shortly have to opportunity to form my own opinion. Link to comment
soundlogic Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Afrancois; i look forward to your findings. Thanks for posting the videos. Link to comment
One and a half Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 The lecture by Rob Watts was very enlightening. From what I could digest, - an external clock would add problems with the Chord DAC On DACs in general - Chip DACs don't cut it for D to A work, there's too much variability in the silicon - R2R DACs can't have the precision of conversion compared to an FPGA controlling the whole show The Paul McGowan video concentrated on Atomic long term stability clocks which are not necessary for playback audio and didn't touch on the pro audio use of clocks which would have made a little more sense and then give reasons why they did or did not work for playback audio. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
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