Did a $79 Behringer mastering interface just outperform the iFi DAC2?

[TubeLover]

On 5/21/2017 at 2:02 PM, Jud said:

 

My guess is a whole bunch of them don't know something very similar is the first digital bitstream in their ADCs, and that many of them also associate it with Sony and their attempt to take over the world with SACD.

 

In fact I've read a few statements along the way that have given me that impression.

Exactly what I've seen and heard Jud. They all seem to have focused  on the Sony attempt to seize everything, and have not forgotten it.  Based on that, it's never been given a fair shot. 

 

JC

[TubeLover]

On 5/18/2017 at 11:43 AM, plissken said:

 

He's just posting measurements and not listening to any of the devices. It's a measurement only endeavor he is undertaking. My understanding is he has more sub $100 DACs to come. 

 

 

 

 

Measurements only, without any audible evaluation are meaningless to me, and should be to others. 

 

JC

[esldude]

3 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Exactly what I've seen and heard Jud. They all seem to have focused  on the Sony attempt to seize everything, and have not forgotten it.  Based on that, it's never been given a fair shot. 

 

JC

I'm repeating myself, but it won't get any shot.  Fair or otherwise.  Regardless of any sound difference, it would have to be a tremendous huge improvement for recording people to forego easy editing, processing and creating that is possible with PCM and minimum to non-existent with DSD.  There work would be easier to return fully to analog tape than it would be to work in DSD if they insisted on keeping it DSD from start to finish.

[semente]

39 minutes ago, esldude said:

I'm repeating myself, but it won't get any shot.  Fair or otherwise.  Regardless of any sound difference, it would have to be a tremendous huge improvement for recording people to forego easy editing, processing and creating that is possible with PCM and minimum to non-existent with DSD.  There work would be easier to return fully to analog tape than it would be to work in DSD if they insisted on keeping it DSD from start to finish.

 

Or you could mix analogue and DSD (i.e. Blue Coast Records), but then you will be using analogue as an effects box.

I am not condemning the creative use of analogue warmth but it does have an impact on signal "purity"(?) if that's what you are aiming for.

 

Another question in my view is whether or not the musical programe justifies the use of a potentially more accurate minimally mic'ed, unprocessed DSD workflow.

This is something that would of course not be feasible with studio recordings as most are impossible to produce with DSD, and to be blunt a lot of the material doesn't really justify it anyway (i.e. teenage pop, dance, electronic).

[esldude]

25 minutes ago, semente said:

 

Or you could mix analogue and DSD (i.e. Blue Coast Records), but then you will be using analogue as an effects box.

I am not condemning the creative use of analogue warmth but it does have an impact on signal "purity"(?) if that's what you are aiming for.

 

Another question in my view is whether or not the musical programe justifies the use of a potentially more accurate minimally mic'ed, unprocessed DSD workflow.

This is something that would of course not be feasible with studio recordings as most are impossible to produce with DSD, and to be blunt a lot of the material doesn't really justify it anyway (i.e. teenage pop, dance, electronic).

Oh yes, and plenty of people use a trip thru tape with PCM.  Or go to analog to send to outboard analog compressors or other gear and back to PCM.  Studios with very rare exceptions care not a whit for purity the way audiophiles think they do.

[plissken]

12 hours ago, rando said:

Ah, but the type of person who is going to buy a $79 DAC in place of a receiver will be listening to "crappy, hyper compressed, low bit rate streams."

More likely the person that used the HP out on their computer. But maybe not even then.

 

More than even odds that a person purchasing a mastering interface knows about various formats. Not sure what reality even allows you to make internal sense of your statement for you.

12 hours ago, rando said:

The vast majority of music on computers is ripped mp3's.  An answer that polishes the aforementioned turds would also do a handy number on historical performances.  Who cares if it doesn't treat high res files so kindly.

Are you trying to malign the $79 interface that seems, at initial blush, to perform well, or someone of limited funds that want as much performance/features they can get for $79? or upset that you have have purchased an Audiophile interface at 4-5X the cost that may not be as good an interface?

 

12 hours ago, rando said:

As for why I felt need to point out another device could preempt the object of this thread?  Such is the way industry works.

 

That's called a win.

12 hours ago, rando said:

 

 As soon as the first domino falls the market gets flooded.  Some are bound to function better than others.  One may even be fantastic value for money until the masses get wise to it.   

 

So the value of it goes down the more units shipped? Come again?

 

[plissken]

10 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Measurements only, without any audible evaluation are meaningless to me, and should be to others. 

 

JC

 

You are missing the point: The measurements simply put the product into the "Should try it out".

 

The measurements that I saw of the Schitt Modi would allow me to exclude that product.

[plissken]

7 hours ago, esldude said:

I'm repeating myself, but it won't get any shot.  Fair or otherwise.  Regardless of any sound difference, it would have to be a tremendous huge improvement for recording people to forego easy editing, processing and creating that is possible with PCM and minimum to non-existent with DSD.  There work would be easier to return fully to analog tape than it would be to work in DSD if they insisted on keeping it DSD from start to finish.

 

Good point. So good it will be dutifully ignored.

[plissken]

On the bit depth resolution. Remember the S.E. outputs were measured. The Balanced out will deliver another 6dB of lower noise floor, subsequently higher Amplitude Response,  and put this device at ~20 bits.

[semente]

1 hour ago, plissken said:

 

You are missing the point: The measurements simply put the product into the "Should try it out".

 

That is also my modus operandi.

[rando]

I'm less than amazed anymore when someone quotes the same message twice, concurrently, weeks apart to double down on the negativity they can spread.  What didn't deserve a first response from me certainly shouldn't have elicited a second thought on the matter.  Have a better Summer.

[plissken]

6 minutes ago, rando said:

I'm less than amazed anymore when someone quotes the same message twice, concurrently, weeks apart to double down on the negativity they can spread.  What didn't deserve a first response from me certainly shouldn't have elicited a second thought on the matter.  Have a better Summer.

 

There's never such a thing as too much when pointing out faulty logic. Never mind the fact that the post I quoted is less than 15 hours old and not 'weeks ago'.

 

You have recollection of events that doesn't even exist. This serves to remind me that I'm not always dealing with the rational person.

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Measurements only, without any audible evaluation are meaningless to me, and should be to others. 

 

JC

 

I like this comment because it works great for everyone. 

 

Whether you are 100% measurement based or 100% subjective or somewhere in the middle, you must understand that not all measurements really matter. One must listen to decide if a certain measurement matters to him. 

 

[plissken]

33 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I like this comment because it works great for everyone. 

 

Whether you are 100% measurement based or 100% subjective or somewhere in the middle, you must understand that not all measurements really matter. One must listen to decide if a certain measurement matters to him. 

 

 

100% correct. You have to get ears on this stuff. I'm just happy there are truly well performing (objectively), factually affordable :), that you can easily try out.

 

Gear like this makes it easier than ever to experience a high resolution setup.

 

If all the outputs are active there is additional benefit of the ability to drive L/R subs with it.

 

I could easily see this unit or the 404HD, the Yamaha P2500S, driving $9400 worth of speakers outperforming $5000 in DAC/AMP and $5000 in speakers.

[esldude]

9 hours ago, plissken said:

 

 

I could easily see this unit or the 404HD, the Yamaha P2500S, driving $9400 worth of speakers outperforming $5000 in DAC/AMP and $5000 in speakers.

Actually unless you intentionally rig the test with some sub-par for the price speakers, I see no other result than the $9400 speakers with the cheap front end outperforming the alternate using $5000 speakers.

[plissken]

14 minutes ago, esldude said:

Actually unless you intentionally rig the test with some sub-par for the price speakers, I see no other result than the $9400 speakers with the cheap front end outperforming the alternate using $5000 speakers.

 

Yep ;-) I've been, unfortunately, not surprised by seeing $1000 in speakers being driven by $3000 in amp/dac/source hardware. It's a head scratcher every time.

 

[esldude]

59 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Yep ;-) I've been, unfortunately, not surprised by seeing $1000 in speakers being driven by $3000 in amp/dac/source hardware. It's a head scratcher every time.

 

Not quite as odd as a USB DAC that costs a third of the money spent connecting the two ends of the USB cable with all the reclockers, isolators, special power supplies and special cables.

[Superdad]

22 hours ago, esldude said:

Not quite as odd as a USB DAC that costs a third of the money spent connecting the two ends of the USB cable with all the reclockers, isolators, special power supplies and special cables.

 

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it Dennis.  

[esldude]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it Dennis.  

Show me good reason to do so.  Something beyond just listen you'll see.  With the emphasis on SEE.

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, esldude said:

Show me good reason to do so.  Something beyond just listen you'll see.  With the emphasis on SEE.

 

Well you can SEE what a whole lot of people are saying...

But then I know you don't like to LISTEN to anybody else. 

 

However Dennis, IF you were willing to use your ears, I'd send you an ISO REGEN / UltraCap LPS-1 combo gratis for you to try for a few weeks.  ZERO obligation to buy, just an obligation to listen and honestly report what you hear.

It's your chance to see (hear) if the emperor has no clothes! 

 

--Alex C.

(P.S.  We are 100% sold out until the very end of July, but I'd be happy to reserve a kit for you.)

[esldude]

31 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Well you can SEE what a whole lot of people are saying...

But then I know you don't like to LISTEN to anybody else. 

 

However Dennis, IF you were willing to use your ears, I'd send you an ISO REGEN / UltraCap LPS-1 combo gratis for you to try for a few weeks.  ZERO obligation to buy, just an obligation to listen and honestly report what you hear.

It's your chance to see (hear) if the emperor has no clothes! 

 

--Alex C.

(P.S.  We are 100% sold out until the very end of July, but I'd be happy to reserve a kit for you.)

Okay Alex.  I'll take you up on that. Assuming you meant it would be after the end of July.  That actually would be best for me as I have some time consuming obligations for the next three weeks. I'll of course cover cost of shipping and such. 

 

Just get in touch with any details via PM, and I can give you some other contact info.

 

Thanks,
Dennis

 

[Superdad]

14 minutes ago, esldude said:

Okay Alex.  I'll take you up on that. Not sure if you meant it would be after the end of July or not. 

 

Excellent Dennis!    I'll be in touch.  And yes, not until the very end of July.  All the paid and waiting orders come first.

Best,

--Alex C.

 

P.S. Will you be using this thread's $79 wonder-DAC? 

[esldude]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Excellent Dennis!    I'll be in touch.  And yes, not until the very end of July.  All the paid and waiting orders come first.

Best,

--Alex C.

 

P.S. Will you be using this thread's $79 wonder-DAC? 

I don't have one of those in my possession.  If we consider that a $39.50 per channel ADC/DAC, I have one that is $43.75 per channel.  What I had in mind was using my Focusrite Forte or my Tact unit fed via an SPDIF converter.  And any other DAC I can get hands on to try.  I am sure I can get an Emotiva from a friend. 

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, esldude said:

What I had in mind was using my Focusrite Forte or my Tact unit fed via an SPDIF converter.  And any other DAC I can get hands on to try. 

 

Anything will be just fine... Just as long as the ISO REGEN can be plugged directly into your DACs' inputs.  I'll include both orientations of our USPCB A>B Adapter so you can do so.

[plissken]

9 hours ago, esldude said:

I don't have one of those in my possession.  If we consider that a $39.50 per channel ADC/DAC, I have one that is $43.75 per channel.  What I had in mind was using my Focusrite Forte or my Tact unit fed via an SPDIF converter.  And any other DAC I can get hands on to try.  I am sure I can get an Emotiva from a friend. 

 

I can get you the Emotiva DC-1 and the Behringer 204HD.