New Ayre 8 series DAC

[Ryan Berry]

16 hours ago, Sam Lord said:

 

 

Yes the cost is very high, and HDMI is a noise-laden bear to extract audio from, except for the I2S format.  So I agree with their choice: sadly there are just a few rare digital audio interfaces worth the name, one being AES67.  The glacial bandwidth of ancient standards like optical or electrical SPDIF is a disgrace.   

 

Exactly as you say, Sam.  With the amount of sales volume we see in high end audio, justifying HDMI licensing costs is typically not economically viable.  We have offered HDMI in the past with the DX-5, but that was simply because it was part of the donor unit anyway and was by far the best video port on the unit.  Even then, we separated the HDMI ports and made an audio-only port to try and clean up that port as much as possible if people were feeding it into a surround sound processor (a feature we noticed was adopted the next year in the stock unit!)  Without dealing with licensing for Blu-Ray decoding, there's no reason for us to try and make someone else's technology sound good, so we build the product from scratch...but of course, that takes away the "easy" way to license the product.

We wish it was easier (i.e. viable) to do and have some ideas we're working on; but it's way too early to even talk about them yet.

[Ryan Berry]

Much as with Ayre's products for the past 11 years, the 8 series was designed primarily by the team at Ayre lead by Ariel Brown, who has been a designer with Ayre for over 20 years now, along with support and ideas from Charles Hansen before he passed.  More recently, Ayre added Brendan Boyle to our team, which had improved our ability in digital and user interface applications considerably starting with the QX-5.

 

Edit: I nearly forgot the outside!  For the 8 series, Ayre was looking for an updated look that would be more accepted in a living room by everyone than some of the more aggressive-looking high end components on the market (including our own!) tend to be.  We worked with a product designer that came up with this new look while trying to preserve many of Ayre's existing design queues.

 

[Ryan Berry]

6 hours ago, thyname said:

 

I don't know. I copy/pasted exactly what I was emailed by Gary at Ayre. I am guessing yes. I know the QX-5 can be stripped out to several digital inputs. The $8,950 price for the QX-5 is the "fully loaded" version

 

Precisely so. Similar to the QX-5, the QX-8 will havea numberof optional configurations. The base will have the S/PDIF inputs (AES, RCA, and TOSLINK), with the options to addon Ethernet connectivity, USB connectivity, or both! 

[Ryan Berry]

Ideally, we're aiming to have this shipping by end of May.  I think we've gotten all the kinks ironed out with our new machinist that has held the EX-8 up.  My only issue with the QX-8 now is that I don't get any other work done that day if I go in to listen to it! 

[Ryan Berry]

10 hours ago, thyname said:

 

Ryan: wow! that says a lot. Maybe I should wait for the QX-8 and not buy the QX-5 now.

 

Also, can you comment on the differences on the Ethernet chip / card between the QX-8 and QX-5?

 

And perhaps on the differences between the two in general?

 

Thanks!

 

9 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

That’s exciting!

 

Echoing the question about difference with the QX-5,let me also add - please also compare with the Codex, as this is an obvious upgrade path.

 

I’m particularly interested in comparisons of the power supplies used in all 3.

 

I'd be happy to!  While the QX-5 is still what we consider our giant slayer, we wanted to have a series that was a little easier on peoples' pockets so that more people could enjoy what Ayre does.  Of course, much to our annoyance, costs and economies still exist when we're trying to fit everything into a smaller budget, so we couldn't do EVERYTHING the QX-5 does, but we feel we did a good job of it.  Of course, that remains for you to decide.

 

A main differences between the QX-5 and QX-8 without going too far into detail are: the QX-5 has our passive line filtering technology (AyreConditioner) built-in while the QX-8 does not.  The QX-5 has 4 separate transformers with different windings used to drive the many parts of the QX-5 (Ethernet, USB, Digital, Analog) and the QX-8 has a single transformer with separate windings to drive these different parts of the circuit.  The DAC chip used to drive the QX-5 is the ES9038PRO while the QX-8 uses the ES9038Q2M.  The QX-5 has custom-made SC-cut crystals from Morion, the QX-8 has more traditional oscillators that we chose as having the best measurements we could find "off the shelf" -- they're still customized for our frequency needs, of course.  PCB materials, components used, and the amount of voltage regulation on the two units also differs based on what we could get into the QX-8's budget as is typical with differently-priced lines.  Finally, the number of inputs differs between the two units, though I believe most homes wouldn't need more than what the QX-8 has available.  Both units still use our new asynchronous solution for S/PDIF, have the same base module for the Ethernet (though the boards they mount to differ), have linear power supplies, and asynchronous USB DACs that we're known for; not to mention we're all waiting impatiently to be able to buy the first EX-8s (which the QX-8 is based on) when we have enough for employee sales to start.

 

Regarding the Codex, that may be the closer relative of the QX-8, using similar components and materials.  Obviously, the QX-8 has quite a few more functions and power requirements to drive everything along with a newer DAC chip, but are both evolved designs based on the Pono player we designed the audio circuit for.  The Codex only offers asynchronous USB while the QX-8 offers that and more, depending on what you want added to it.

 

So to answer on what you should get...I guess it depends.  The QX-8 is a great unit that I'd be absolutely happy with, but I also would be happy with everything we make, or we wouldn't make it.  The QX-5 is of course even better, and I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find something that outshines it.  So, like everything, it comes down to if you think the QX-5 is better enough to spend the money on it.  I'm sorry I don't have a better answer than that, I'd love to say we figured out how to make something twice as good at half the price!  Maybe someday.

[Ryan Berry]

7 hours ago, #Yoda# said:

 

That is similar to what Ian K. told me about the sound quality of the QX-8 and the EX-8 he experienced.

 

Looking forward to see Brent and whoever is joining him this year at the High End show in Munich. Is there any listening opportunity at the show this year? I don't know any dealer in southern Germany or Austria where I can do this. 

I've read on the Ayre hompage that you have found a new distributor for Germany and Austria at last and hope that the market presentation, communication and penetration will get better now.

 

My thoughts are with you, the Ayre staff and Charley's family tomorrow!

The 8 series will be on display in Munich, in fact, and will be in an active system to listen to!  As an added bonus, I'll throw in Brent, Ariel, and myself in the deal...they finally managed to get me out of the office.  I haven't been to Germany in about 15 years, so I'm pretty happy to go!

 

As you saw, I'm pleased to say that we've just announced our new Ayre partner in Germany with Bauer Audio!  There's some work to be done to get all the gear they'll need set up, etc., but we're very excited to have someone there to work with Germany and Austria.  We've known Willie Bauer for quite some time and could not be more excited about the opportunity.

 

Thank you for the wishes.  Tomorrow will be a celebration in Charley's honor, it's what he would have wanted.

[Ryan Berry]

We'll have 2 active systems working there, one set up to headphones while the other will be playing through Vivid Audio speakers, who we share the booth with.  I look forward to seeing you if we have a chance!

[Ryan Berry]

30 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Doh! I picked AXPONA over Munich this year. Bummer.

Well, you're not completely out of luck.  Michael will be at Audio Consultants during AXPONA with an active EX-8 as well.  We won't be at the show itself this year as we wanted to support our local dealer with our currently very limited units, but there's one in the area if you want to make the detour!

[Ryan Berry]

2 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Ah OK, thanks for the heads-up. Is the EX-8 a superset of QX-8 plus an amp, all in one chassis?

Exactly so.  The EX-8, which we jokingly called E for "Everything" is an integrated amp with analog volume control that has the majority of the digital section of the QX-8 on board.  That unit and a set of speaker cables will get you playing music through Ethernet, USB, or S/PDIF with nothing else required. For us, it's quite a departure from the many separate components we've offered in the past that make up a system...but that's not to say that we won't be offering separates as well for those that prefer them.

[Ryan Berry]

Hi Pete,

 

The EX-8 is currently shipping and we're working through the orders as we receive the components in. The QX-8 will likely be shipping before end of June as long as everything remains on schedule.  The VX-8/KX-8 will be toward the end of summer, but may show up earlier depending on chassis components.  We have a few more products planned for the line as well, but we want to be a bit closer to having them developed before announcing, so stay tuned!

[Ryan Berry]

5 hours ago, Nidri said:

 

Hi Ryan.

 

Any update on the ETA for the VX-8 power amplifier?

Are the amplification circuits 100% the same as those of the EX-8 Integrated Hub, or do they push the performance bar a little higher (when used with the KX-8 of course)?

 

Regards,

George

 

Hi George,

 

The VX-8 is effectively developed, but we need to get all the parts in, which takes longer than designing the product sometimes.  The circuit in the VX-8 will be a bit more robust than the EX-8,  so while it is still rated at 100W into 8 ohms, it will drive lower impedance a bit better.  Not that the EX-8 is a slouch either -- I've yet to find anything the EX-8 wasn't able to drive for me so far.  Of course, less can often be more when you're talking about features in one chassis.  While you do add more interconnects into the system when you have separate components, you also have a lot less running inside of one box, so there's always tradeoffs.  Personally, I think the KX-8 with the VX-8 is the best sounding (else we wouldn't offer the option since it costs more to buy the two units), though I use an EX-8 at home because it fits inside my entertainment system in the living room real well.  For the listening room, I stick with separates. 

 

Likely we'll be launching these early 2019.  The 8 series gave us a lot of products all developed around the same time, so we've had a lot of meetings in planning the launch schedule that makes the most sense to avoid flooding the market with 6 products at the same time!  Ultimately, a lot of metal shop delays really pushed back our desired schedule, but I think we've finally gotten the process nailed down and should be picking things back up soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan 

[Ryan Berry]

Hey Thomas,

 

Good news on that then!  I did get the final EX-8 parts just an hour ago and many of the units are already built and tested, so we're making a push on getting these shipped out over the next week.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan

[Ryan Berry]

1 hour ago, Nidri said:

 

 

Hi Ryan,

 

Thank you so much for the prompt and detailed response.

I think the modularity and customer choice you're providing in the 8-series is great.

Best of luck with your launch schedule.

 

Regards,

George

 

 

Thanks George!  We're pretty proud of the idea ourselves.  It makes harder to manufacture ahead of time since they can be customized, but this way each person can get the system that suits them the best without having to buy features they have no interest in using.  It was a pretty easy decision for us to make.

[Ryan Berry]

On 11/30/2018 at 7:20 AM, shema56 said:

had been 6 month since that comment .is there a date for the QX8 in the market?

 

You're right.  The machinist we had hoped had the process figured out took a step backwards and we had to start completely over with a new shop, delaying everything in the 8 line.  We're particular about how we want things to be and won't send anything less than what we feel is the best.  That said, production is starting to build QX-8 units now, so we'll have units able to go out before long.  There's a few finishing touches that are being done...we've been working with our Ethernet card supplier to improve its performance and wanted to get that ironed out before shipping.  For the QX-5 owners, they should be seeing that come out as a free update.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan

[Ryan Berry]

Just now, shema56 said:

will the qx8 support MQA

 

Not at this time.  Our results with MQA have not given us a reason to add it as a feature.  I've spoken about it in other threads in the past here.

[Ryan Berry]

Hi Thomas,

 

Absolutely.  It's a universal patch for anything with the Ethernet module.  I wish I could say that DSD128 was part of it, but the hardware's fairly capped out on what we're asking it to do as is.  That feature will likely take a hardware upgrade some day in the future when we can find a better option that also does the things we know help the sound quality like our current module.

 

Cheers,

Ryan

[Ryan Berry]

5 hours ago, thyname said:

 

Ryan,

 

For us the QX-5 owners, is this a firmware update over internet, or hardware update we need to ship the unit in? Thanks 

 

Firmware update that should occur over the network for you. I'll check the rev. numbers tomorrow, I'm a bit behind on what the current revision is.

[Ryan Berry]

5 minutes ago, thyname said:

 Hi @Ryan Berry -- what did you find out?

 

Hi Thomas,

Talked to the engineers and it looks like you're up to date with those revisions.  We'll actually be releasing another revision in the next couple of days to 03.06.40 that will further improve the Ethernet input.  The QX-5 will look for the update and prompt to update whenever it is put into standby.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan

[Ryan Berry]

3 hours ago, thyname said:

 

Thanks! This is good news! The General Firmware Version will still remain "K"?

 

That's correct.  The general firmware will only change if there's some new format or feature we're adding to the unit, whereas the network firmware will change pretty regularly as we keep pushing to make the technology better.  We plan on always offering that for free to our fans, of course, so the units should always pick it up for you and off it goes.  If we ever release a general firmware update, I'll try and post here.