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Sonore ultraRendu v1.3


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6 hours ago, GaryY said:

Thanks for your advice. If I understand you correctly, the ISO Regen would be redundant once the Mac is removed and the uR is connected between the Synology and DAC.

 

Should I decide to keep the Mac in the chain, would it be Mac to uR to IR to DAC. Any advantage to doing that? 

the synology is connected to your network.  the mac is connected to your network.  the uR is connected to your network.  the iso regen is connected to the uR.  the dac is connected to the iso regen.

(1) holo audio red (hqp naa) > chord dave > luxman cl-38uc/mq-88uc > kef reference 1
(2) simaudio moon mind 2 > chord qutest > luxman sq-n150 > monitor audio gold gx100
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11 hours ago, GaryY said:

Thanks for your advice. If I understand you correctly, the ISO Regen would be redundant once the Mac is removed and the uR is connected between the Synology and DAC.

 

Should I decide to keep the Mac in the chain, would it be Mac to uR to IR to DAC. Any advantage to doing that? 

Like JCn3 said...these are all network devices so they all go connected to a router or switch. You ca use the computer as a server or controller if you want or you can use a mobile device for control. 

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Apologies as I'm sure this question has been asked but I cannot find it. The ultraRendu is a Roon endpoint, what application is actually playing the music? Is the Roon music player part of Roon Core and the uR is just receiving the decoded file and then passing it on to the DAC or does the music decoding take place in the uR (via MPD)?

 

Has anyone found that different Roon endpoints or Roon Bridges sound different or the same. In other words, does the audio quality of Roon depend on the specific endpoint or Bridge hardware?

Main System: [Synology DS216, Rpi-4b LMS (pCP)], Holo Audio Red, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments

Living Room: Sonore ultraRendu, Ayre QB-9DSD, Simaudio MOON 340iX, B&W 802 Diamond

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9 hours ago, Axiom05 said:

Apologies as I'm sure this question has been asked but I cannot find it. The ultraRendu is a Roon endpoint, what application is actually playing the music? Is the Roon music player part of Roon Core and the uR is just receiving the decoded file and then passing it on to the DAC or does the music decoding take place in the uR (via MPD)?

Roon core is the player and does all the processing. The endpoint does basically nothing except pass the file on to the dac.

(1) holo audio red (hqp naa) > chord dave > luxman cl-38uc/mq-88uc > kef reference 1
(2) simaudio moon mind 2 > chord qutest > luxman sq-n150 > monitor audio gold gx100
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12 hours ago, jcn3 said:

Roon core is the player and does all the processing. The endpoint does basically nothing except pass the file on to the dac.

This point of view is entirely in error.  ROON plays the file, and passes the file to the endpoint.  The the endpoint converts from a file type (.wav, .dsf, etc) to a digital audio stream (in this case USB) which can be accepted by a DAC.  That conversion process matters to sound quality, as does the level of noise produced by the endpoint, and transmitted over USB to the DAC.  This is why purpose built for audio devices such as the ultraRendu can achieve such an improvement in sound quality over something built as a commercial grade computer component, with all the compromises inherent in the design of commercial grade computer products: built to the lowest possible price point, standard $.50 cent clock(s) vs expensive low phase noise clock(s), noisy switching regulators vs. expensive ultra low noise linear regulators, and tons of other details which make real differences in sound quality.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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49 minutes ago, barrows said:

This point of view is entirely in error.  ROON plays the file, and passes the file to the endpoint.  The the endpoint converts from a file type (.wav, .dsf, etc) to a digital audio stream (in this case USB) which can be accepted by a DAC.  That conversion process matters to sound quality, as does the level of noise produced by the endpoint, and transmitted over USB to the DAC.  This is why purpose built for audio devices such as the ultraRendu can achieve such an improvement in sound quality over something built as a commercial grade computer component, with all the compromises inherent in the design of commercial grade computer products: built to the lowest possible price point, standard $.50 cent clock(s) vs expensive low phase noise clock(s), noisy switching regulators vs. expensive ultra low noise linear regulators, and tons of other details which make real differences in sound quality.

I've wondered about how much influence the uR has on the sound as well, especially when I hear people saying Jriver sounds better than Roon, or Roon sounds better with HQPlayer than by itself and so forth.  I have a DAC that is extraordinarily revealing, and my system now sounds just a bit "edgy" and needs a bump in the 250-750Hz range.  Easily enough corrected with the parabolic EQ in Roon, but it leads me to wonder what is influencing the sound the most - the software, the general purpose computer acting as a Roon server, the uR, or the DAC. 

Front ends:

Digital: Sonore ultraRendu or SOtM 200 ultra Trifecta --> LKS MH-D004

Analog: Clearaudio Performance DC --> Rogue Triton

Back end: SMc Audio VRE-1C --> SMc Audio DNA125 Platinum Plus-->Stealth Dream v10 cables --> Ridge Street Audio Designs Sason speakers, dual Rhythmik F12SE subs

 

 

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17 minutes ago, aggielaw said:

I've wondered about how much influence the uR has on the sound as well, especially when I hear people saying Jriver sounds better than Roon, or Roon sounds better with HQPlayer than by itself and so forth.  I have a DAC that is extraordinarily revealing, and my system now sounds just a bit "edgy" and needs a bump in the 250-750Hz range.  Easily enough corrected with the parabolic EQ in Roon, but it leads me to wonder what is influencing the sound the most - the software, the general purpose computer acting as a Roon server, the uR, or the DAC. 

Just my experience...  But I've never heard Roon sound any different/better than LMS or MPD. When you consider that Roon is so expensive, plays mucky-muck with your music DB, is integrated with that shite internet streaming program Tidal, makes it hard to play albums. Ultimately, - though, - the biggest argument against Roon is that the sound quality is no better.

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3 minutes ago, jaaptina said:
On 14-1-2018 at 10:47 AM, Em2016 said:

 

I had 3 streamers before ultraRendu. All used as streamer with separate dac. Pioneer N-30 was okay. Aries Mini was clearly better. Sonore microRendu with LPS-1 was clearly better again. UltraRendu again sounds better. So yes the streamer does matter a lot. 

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3 hours ago, jaaptina said:

I had 3 streamers before ultraRendu. All used as streamer with separate dac. Pioneer N-30 was okay. Aries Mini was clearly better. Sonore microRendu with LPS-1 was clearly better again. UltraRendu again sounds better. So yes the streamer does matter a lot. 

 

Hi jaaptina

 

Juat out of interest, which post of mine are you quoting?

 

I went back to 14th Jan and couldn’t find my post.

 

Cheers!

 

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6 hours ago, barrows said:

This point of view is entirely in error.  ROON plays the file, and passes the file to the endpoint.  The the endpoint converts from a file type (.wav, .dsf, etc) to a digital audio stream (in this case USB) which can be accepted by a DAC.  That conversion process matters to sound quality, as does the level of noise produced by the endpoint, and transmitted over USB to the DAC.  This is why purpose built for audio devices such as the ultraRendu can achieve such an improvement in sound quality over something built as a commercial grade computer component, with all the compromises inherent in the design of commercial grade computer products: built to the lowest possible price point, standard $.50 cent clock(s) vs expensive low phase noise clock(s), noisy switching regulators vs. expensive ultra low noise linear regulators, and tons of other details which make real differences in sound quality.

I just want to correct two things with respect to Roon/RoonReady: 

1. Roon decodes .wav at the core and always sends PCM to the micro/ultraRendu.

2. Roon decodes .dsf and .dff at the core and always sends DSD to the micro/ultraRendu.

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5 hours ago, aggielaw said:

I've wondered about how much influence the uR has on the sound as well, especially when I hear people saying Jriver sounds better than Roon, or Roon sounds better with HQPlayer than by itself and so forth.  I have a DAC that is extraordinarily revealing, and my system now sounds just a bit "edgy" and needs a bump in the 250-750Hz range.  Easily enough corrected with the parabolic EQ in Roon, but it leads me to wonder what is influencing the sound the most - the software, the general purpose computer acting as a Roon server, the uR, or the DAC. 

We choose to blame your DAC of course:) 

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Well played, my friend.  Well played!  :)

 

Not to get off topic, but does it bother anyone else that several highly-rated DACs in the $1500-$2500 range serve other purposes like preamp or headphone amp?  I heard the Benchmark DAC3 at Capital Audio Fest, and it sounded excellent.  I've not heard the Mytek Brooklyn, but both companies have invested money in an amplifier section for headphones, and even without hearing any of the units logic tells me a single-function unit such as the Holo Spring DAC or LKS MH-D004 should be, and probably are, better values.  I understand the reasons companies do this, but it dissuades me from buying their product.  

 

I guess that's why I bought a uR, right?  It does one thing, and does it darn well!

Front ends:

Digital: Sonore ultraRendu or SOtM 200 ultra Trifecta --> LKS MH-D004

Analog: Clearaudio Performance DC --> Rogue Triton

Back end: SMc Audio VRE-1C --> SMc Audio DNA125 Platinum Plus-->Stealth Dream v10 cables --> Ridge Street Audio Designs Sason speakers, dual Rhythmik F12SE subs

 

 

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14 hours ago, barrows said:

This point of view is entirely in error.  ROON plays the file, and passes the file to the endpoint.  The the endpoint converts from a file type (.wav, .dsf, etc) to a digital audio stream (in this case USB) which can be accepted by a DAC.  That conversion process matters to sound quality, as does the level of noise produced by the endpoint, and transmitted over USB to the DAC.  This is why purpose built for audio devices such as the ultraRendu can achieve such an improvement in sound quality over something built as a commercial grade computer component, with all the compromises inherent in the design of commercial grade computer products: built to the lowest possible price point, standard $.50 cent clock(s) vs expensive low phase noise clock(s), noisy switching regulators vs. expensive ultra low noise linear regulators, and tons of other details which make real differences in sound quality.

Ok, ... & how do A+ & HQP differ from this?

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

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5 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

Ok, ... & how do A+ & HQP differ from this?

These are three different protocol after all. A+ streams PCM with a WAV header to upmpdcli / MPD and MPD passes the data to ALSA. HQ Player interracts with ALSA directly. The three players also have different algorithms for the digital signal processing they perform. The great thing about the micro/ultraRendu is that we support them all and you can decide which one you prefer.

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25 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

These are three different protocol after all. A+ streams PCM with a WAV header to upmpdcli / MPD and MPD passes the data to ALSA. HQ Player interracts with ALSA directly. The three players also have different algorithms for the digital signal processing they perform. The great thing about the micro/ultraRendu is that we support them all and you can decide which one you prefer.

I used to own an original Sonore Rendu. What did that protocol do?

 

I now own an ultraRendu, but I always admired the simplicity of the original Sonore Rendu (circa 2013). With BubbleUPnP control on Android it was truly plug and play.

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, rodrigaj said:

I used to own an original Sonore Rendu. What did that protocol do?

 

I now own an ultraRendu, but I always admired the simplicity of the original Sonore Rendu (circa 2013). With BubbleUPnP control on Android it was truly plug and play.

The Rendu (i2s/SPDIF) was a renderer so decoding generally took place on it. You can replicate it's simplicity by uninstalling everything except the MPD/DLNA output mode. However, the other output modes are not utilized on the micro/ultraRendu when they are not in use so same difference really. 

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Left field question - using Roon at the moment ... someone asked me the other day if you could use itunes as player & I just didn’t know.

Is there an output mode than can accomodate itunes?

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

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1 hour ago, sockpit said:

Shairport, I imagine.

Ok.

Hmm, wonder if anyone has actually bothered to try - confirmation anywheres?

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

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6 hours ago, vortecjr said:

The Rendu (i2s/SPDIF) was a renderer so decoding generally took place on it. You can replicate it's simplicity by uninstalling everything except the MPD/DLNA output mode. However, the other output modes are not utilized on the micro/ultraRendu when they are not in use so same difference really. 

Yeah, I saw that but I now have the bug to try different players so I guess I'm my own worst enemy :).

 

It's the reason I bought the ultraRendu - the simplicity of the original Rendu came at a price - no flexibility. That was great when I first got into computer audio, but as I gained knowledge I wanted to try different players, upsampling, filters, etc... 

 

"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

Left field question - using Roon at the moment ... someone asked me the other day if you could use itunes as player & I just didn’t know.

Is there an output mode than can accomodate itunes?

5

Yes, Shareport works fine with iTunes and actually sounds pretty decent.  It is not the best protocol to use and it is restricted to 16/48, so something like Roon RAAT is superior.  So there is a small SQ penalty, but it works fine and it has rock solid stability.

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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Thanks for info, re Shareport.

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

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