Sonore ultraRendu v1.3

[fbczar]

Many thanks for your reply and the replies of others. I like the idea of the UltraRendu, but I had also considered the Schiit EITR, basically because I could not understand the differences between the two. It seems from your comments that what's happens in the UltraRendu before the USB output is as critical as the quality of the USB output. I thought I could just clean up the output of my iMac and be in business. 

 

I was also also confused by the effect of asynchronous USB and you have addressed that directly. Again, thanks for your help.

[unbalanced output]

Paul, I'd say give it a try even if your cable is short. Just stack them temporarlily and see which one you like the most. Use the Chord cable both on the mR and the Zenith

[vortecjr]

8 hours ago, flummoxe said:

Opinion sought please.

 

I've recently (Thursday) added a Innuos Zenith SE (running Roon) to my set which replaces a iMac, and thus far it sounds excellent, a significant upgrade.

 

I'm initially connecting the Zenith to my Chord Hugo TT DAC from its dedicated Ethernet port via a microRendu 1.4 + LPS-1 which is how it was with the iMac. However, I've read that the USB output is superior. This I tried briefly with a Chord USB SilverPlus cable and I could hear little or no difference. Is the cable not good enough or perhaps the Zenith needs more miles on the clock?

 

So the question is where to go from here as it's difficult if not impossible to try all the options.

 

Possible options I have in mind -

 

Ethernet

1. upgrade to an ultraRendu
2. as above + ISO REGEN
3. microRendu + ISO REGEN

USB

1. upgrade the cable to something like a Curious USB
2. as above + ISO REGEN

Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

 

You could try a different power supply. 

[vortecjr]

4 hours ago, fbczar said:

Many thanks for your reply and the replies of others. I like the idea of the UltraRendu, but I had also considered the Schiit EITR, basically because I could not understand the differences between the two. It seems from your comments that what's happens in the UltraRendu before the USB output is as critical as the quality of the USB output. I thought I could just clean up the output of my iMac and be in business. 

 

I was also also confused by the effect of asynchronous USB and you have addressed that directly. Again, thanks for your help.

The Schiit EITR is a USB to SPDIF converter and the ultraRendu is a USB source. If you are going to use the converter then you need to compare one source versus another. 

[flummoxe]

16 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

You could try a different power supply. 

 

I already have an LPS-1 feeding the microRendu so what do you suggest?

 

I'm tempted by the Signature Rendu SE to be honest if funds will allow.

[vortecjr]

15 minutes ago, flummoxe said:

 

I already have an LPS-1 feeding the microRendu so what do you suggest?

 

I'm tempted by the Signature Rendu SE to be honest if funds will allow.

Uptone Audio has suggested that some tweaks to the power supply can have a positive affect on SQ. There is a long winded thread on the tweak which I will let you read. Fell free to ask them any questions.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37034-smps-and-grounding/

 

 

You can also try other power supplies such as the sBooster, CIAudio, or Teddy Pardo.  I know the Signature Rendu SE is expensive so let your wallet decide:)

 

[HookEm]

Hey Paul,

It seems to me that it would be really difficult to compare the Ethernet and USB outputs on the Zenith since you have to introduce other pieces using the network connection, each of which could make a difference.

 

I suppose you may prefer one configuration over the other, but I don't think you'd be able to say the difference is just due to the chosen output in the Zenith.

 

If I were to make such a comparison, I'd use the same 'Reference' (known-to-work-well) USB cable for the DAC connection in both cases. So perhaps you could try:

1) Zenith-> Reference USB cable -> DAC

2) Zenith-> Network->UltraRendu->Reference USB cable -> DAC

 

As for power for the Ultra, perhaps others here can chime in about the (Ultra+LPS-1) vs Signature Rendu SE.

 

.

[m3lraaHnevetS]

3 hours ago, HookEm said:

As for power for the Ultra, perhaps others here can chime in about the (Ultra+LPS-1) vs Signature Rendu SE.

I compared Ultra with Sonore Signature Power Supply versus Ultra with LPS-1 versus Signature Rendu SE and the SE is much better! The lps in the SE is in an other league than the LPS-1 and it is even clearly better than Ultra with SPS. So if funds allow go for the SE. Only other thing to consider is whether or not the rest of your system is of a level that let’s the quality of the SE shine through. 

[HookEm]

41 minutes ago, m3lraaHnevetS said:

I compared Ultra with Sonore Signature Power Supply versus Ultra with LPS-1 versus Signature Rendu SE and the SE is much better! The lps in the SE is in an other league than the LPS-1 and it is even clearly better than Ultra with SPS. So if funds allow go for the SE. Only other thing to consider is whether or not the rest of your system is of a level that let’s the quality of the SE shine through. 

7

Ummh... I was under the impression that "Signature Rendu SE" was simply a single-enclosure version of the (UtraRendu + Signature Power Supply).

[savjam]

On 10/26/2017 at 8:10 PM, savjam said:

Just hooked up the uR.  Took only a few minutes.   It sounds like the microRendu only slightly clearer but with much better bass definition. This is with less than 15 minutes playtime. I will report back when it has run in a bit.

I now have about 24 hours of playing time and can unequivocally say that the ultraRendu is a significant upgrade from the microRendu in every respect  Great job Sonore and thanks for making this available at a more than affordable price.

 

[m3lraaHnevetS]

9 hours ago, HookEm said:

Ummh... I was under the impression that "Signature Rendu SE" was simply a single-enclosure version of the (UtraRendu + Signature Power Supply).

it is but the ps part is upgraded and being in one box brings advantages too; this what the @barrows told me about it:

 

 The Signature Rendu SE does have a couple of technical advantages over ultra/SPS:  The power supply in the SRse uses a super high 

     quality, custom, transformer from Mercury Magnetics which blocks more AC line noise than the standard toroid in the SPS.  And the SRse

     has 50% more power supply filter capacitance for even lower noise.  Additionally, the close coupling of the supply to the main board (as 

     opposed to external DC cable) means the supply can respond to current demands faster.

[barrows]

Yes, indeed.  There are significant differences between the SPS and the power supply design in the Signature Rendu SE.  BTW, the transformer used in the Rendu SE costs us 9x that of the transformer used in the SPS, we went all out here to get maximum performance.

[flummoxe]

So is it just differences in the PSU combined with the ultraRendu or is the ultraRendue different as well? 

[barrows]

8 minutes ago, flummoxe said:

So is it just differences in the PSU combined with the ultraRendu or is the ultraRendue different as well? 

I do not understand the question, could you please re state it?

[flummoxe]

Apologies.

 

As I understand it the PSU in the Signature is a significantly upgraded version of the SPS.

 

On the Rendu side, it is just an ultraRendu in the box or is this upgraded in any way?

 

I hope that makes sense?

[barrows]

No apology needed, I just was not clear on the question.

 

Here are the technical advantages of the Signature Rendu SE over the ultraRendu + SPS

 

1. Single box design allows close coupling of the power supply and active circuitry.  This significantly reduces the impedance of the power supply.  

2. High quality, thick gauge aluminum and steel chassis (unit weighs over ten pounds) provides a sturdy, vibration free, environment which allows the circuitry to perform better, especially the clock, as clock phase noise is degraded by vibration.

3. 50% more power supply capacitance than in the SPS, reducing power supply noise and impedance even further.

4. Custom wound Mercury Magnetics EI transfomer designed specifically for this product which more effectively blocks AC line noise.

5. A couple of other small refinements which will remain proprietary.

 

Sonore makes 3 levels of Rendu products, good, better, and best.  The microRendu offers fantastic performance and was a revelation on its introduction.  The ultraRendu ups the performance of the micro, and for those who want the very best possible performance we make the Signature Rendu SE, which is currently the state of the art of what we can do in a USB source.

 

The digital circuitry of the Signature Rendu SE and the ultraRendu are identical, but the performance is quite different due to the  technical differences mentioned.

[roboss38]

I have been using the ultraRendu and CI Audio power supply with great success for the last couple weeks.

[barrows]

2 minutes ago, roboss38 said:

I have been using the ultraRendu and CI Audio power supply with great success for the last couple weeks.

Awesome, glad you like it!

[flummoxe]

12 minutes ago, barrows said:

No apology needed, I just was not clear on the question.

 

Here are the technical advantages of the Signature Rendu SE over the ultraRendu + SPS

 

1. Single box design allows close coupling of the power supply and active circuitry.  This significantly reduces the impedance of the power supply.  

2. High quality, thick gauge aluminum and steel chassis (unit weighs over ten pounds) provides a sturdy, vibration free, environment which allows the circuitry to perform better, especially the clock, as clock phase noise is degraded by vibration.

3. 50% more power supply capacitance than in the SPS, reducing power supply noise and impedance even further.

4. Custom wound Mercury Magnetics EI transfomer designed specifically for this product which more effectively blocks AC line noise.

5. A couple of other small refinements which will remain proprietary.

 

Sonore makes 3 levels of Rendu products, good, better, and best.  The microRendu offers fantastic performance and was a revelation on its introduction.  The ultraRendu ups the performance of the micro, and for those who want the very best possible performance we make the Signature Rendu SE, which is currently the state of the art of what we can do in a USB source.

 

The digital circuitry of the Signature Rendu SE and the ultraRendu are identical, but the performance is quite different due to the  technical differences mentioned.

 

Thanks for the clarification Barrow

[HookEm]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

Here are the technical advantages of the Signature Rendu SE over the ultraRendu + SPS

 

1. Single box design allows close coupling of the power supply and active circuitry.  This significantly reduces the impedance of the power supply.  

2. High quality, thick gauge aluminum and steel chassis (unit weighs over ten pounds) provides a sturdy, vibration free, environment which allows the circuitry to perform better, especially the clock, as clock phase noise is degraded by vibration.

3. 50% more power supply capacitance than in the SPS, reducing power supply noise and impedance even further.

4. Custom wound Mercury Magnetics EI transfomer designed specifically for this product which more effectively blocks AC line noise.

5. A couple of other small refinements which will remain proprietary.

 

2

Hi Barrows,

Are there measured specs on this new-improved LPS?... For example, this white-paper talks about:
- Temperature Stability

- Load and Line Regulation

- Ripple and Noise specs
https://www.tek.com/document/application-note/understanding-linear-power-supply-specifications

 

It would be interesting to see how the specs of the older LPS compare to this newer one, especially regarding ripple & noise.
Thanks.

[vortecjr]

16 hours ago, HookEm said:

Hi Barrows,

Are there measured specs on this new-improved LPS?... For example, this white-paper talks about:
- Temperature Stability

- Load and Line Regulation

- Ripple and Noise specs
https://www.tek.com/document/application-note/understanding-linear-power-supply-specifications

 

It would be interesting to see how the specs of the older LPS compare to this newer one, especially regarding ripple & noise.
Thanks.

There are no published specifications on these power supplies. Also, one was (discontinued) a stand alone power supply and the other (Signature Rendu SE) is a stand alone renderer. 

[m3lraaHnevetS]

are you still giving 100% refund on the Ultra when buying a SRse? I already have one but might be interesting to know for Ultra owners

[barrows]

22 hours ago, HookEm said:

Hi Barrows,

Are there measured specs on this new-improved LPS?... For example, this white-paper talks about:
- Temperature Stability

- Load and Line Regulation

- Ripple and Noise specs
https://www.tek.com/document/application-note/understanding-linear-power-supply-specifications

 

It would be interesting to see how the specs of the older LPS compare to this newer one, especially regarding ripple & noise.
Thanks.

Why would we do this?  Have you ever seen any manufacturer publish internal power supply measurements?  Seems an odd request to me.  I have provided all the significant technical details of the differences between these products, excepting a few little things which will remain proprietary.  Beyond this it is up to the audiophile to decide if they want: good, better, or best, simple as that.  As most who have used it know, even the microRendu with a really good power supply provides excellent performance, the ultra with the same supply is better, and the Signature is the best.

[HookEm]

47 minutes ago, barrows said:

Why would we do this?  Have you ever seen any manufacturer publish internal power supply measurements?  Seems an odd request to me.  I have provided all the significant technical details of the differences between these products, excepting a few little things which will remain proprietary.  Beyond this it is up to the audiophile to decide if they want: good, better, or best, simple as that.  As most who have used it know, even the microRendu with a really good power supply provides excellent performance, the ultra with the same supply is better, and the Signature is the best.

Wow... easy does it (LOL).
I'm not demanding anything... Was simply curious about the comparison between the old & new LPS's.

And you're right of course, published specs on "Audiophile" gear are rare (although I'd like to think that 'measured' specs would be helpful to consumers... but that's a "whole nother" topic).

Anyway, thanks for sharing what you did share.

[barrows]

17 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Wow... easy does it (LOL).
I'm not demanding anything... Was simply curious about the comparison between the old & new LPS's.

And you're right of course, published specs on "Audiophile" gear are rare (although I'd like to think that 'measured' specs would be helpful to consumers... but that's a "whole nother" topic).

Anyway, thanks for sharing what you did share.

No worries, did not mean to be aggro!  Manufacturers provide specifications on the output of their products, but not on measurements of internal parts of the circuit.  I am not sure on what kind of measurement we could provide on the USB output of the SRse...

I can offer one measurement of one difference between the Signature Power Supply and the power supply in the SRse:  The AC ripple before the regulator of the SPS is about 44 mV, and the SRse ripple under the same load conditions is about 28 mV.  In addition, the power supply rejection ratio of the regulator is the same in both units.  Before people get all crazy, please remember this is not the ripple/noise of the power supply which the circuitry sees, as the regulator's power supply rejection reduces this level to the tens of micro volts (not milli volts).  Additionally, remember that this the pre-regulated supply, which then goes to the main board where it is filtered and regulated again by the local (ultra low noise, linear) regulators for each stage of the circuit.

So there you have one measured difference between SPS and the power supply internal to the SRse.