Introducing the new Sonore ultraRendu v1.3

[vortecjr]

On 5/21/2017 at 7:31 PM, André Gosselin said:

Jesus,

It would really help if you would put up a table clearly identifying the differences between the mrendu and the new ultrarendu. Still have trouble making up my mind about the benefits I will get by trading my current mrendu for the upcoming ultra version.

One of the key difference is the size. The larger size of the ultraRendu allows us to play with the placement of key components inorder to refine the design. John might talk more about this, but understand that I have asked him not to divulge any trade secrets. 

[vortecjr]

12 hours ago, jtwrace said:

@vortecjr will the ultraRendu include the @Superdad USPCB adapter for the $875?  

No. It might make for a nice combo accessory at some point down the road.

[vortecjr]

11 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Where is the S/PDIF or AES/EBU out???

This is a very focused hardware project. We are trying to make something simple, elegant and to the point. On the software side our App Switcher allows you to try different output protocols as if each was the only one running on the unit. S/PDIF, AES/EBU, and i2s adds complexity and compromises the design goals of this project so they have been intentionally left out.

[vortecjr]

11 hours ago, Kendrick said:

Jesus -  Looking at the draft webpage for the ultraRendu, the dimensions of this larger device match the smaller microRendu.  A "cut and paste" issue, I think.  

I have to fix that:)

[pam1975]

Hi Jesus, many thanks for this info.

 

Is there going to be any changes re internal clock?

The changes you indicate as of now seem rather at the "margin" but I'm probably wrong

Without releasing any trade secrets, could you kindly give us a bit more as to why/how the SQ may improve over the microrendu? I'm not sure I understand at this point what upgrades are to be expected that will result in enhanced SQ.

[vortecjr]

If you were looking for us to add another board with a bunch of parts, wires, and connectors to justify on paper the improvement you looking at the wrong project. Sorry...inside joke. There is nothing marginal about it and make no mistake sound quality is the most important thing to us.

[pam1975]

I'm thrilled to have been enlightened in such a nice way.

You know Jesus, you may be cynical about it, it's your right - but there was zero ill intention in my question aside from getting a *little* more understanding as to the foreseen changes. Oh well.

[vortecjr]

16 minutes ago, pam1975 said:

I'm thrilled to have been enlightened in such a nice way.

You know Jesus, you may be cynical about it, it's your right - but there was zero ill intention in my question aside from getting a *little* more understanding as to the foreseen changes. Oh well.

No worries...just trying to have a little fun here.

[k-man]

I quite enjoyed that little dig at the other 'ultra' product  well played JR 

[rickca]

6 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

No worries...just trying to have a little fun here.

So far, all we know about the ultraRendu is how to install and use it.  Functionally, it's identical to the microRendu running Sonicorbiter 2.5, right?  This makes confidence in a first day order difficult.  Do you plan to release any more details prior to availability?

[JohnSwenson]

Since Jesus has said I can give some info on what has changed with the ultraRendu,here goes:

there are foure major changes:

1) bigger size.

This allows some of the other changes to happen. The microRendu was designed very small so it could fit behind a DAC with a solid adapter between them. This was done to get the highest Signal Integrity (SI) at the DAC input. Over the lifetime of the project several companies have been producing some short high quality USB cables which makes the "box behind the DAC" concept not as necessary as before. This lets us use a larger box which allows some improvements to the design.

 

2) much lower jitter clock.

When the microRendu project was started really good clocks were large and expensive so the choice was made to go with with a good but not best available clock. At this point we didn't understand how critical this next step in lower noise clocks was for many USB input DACs.

 

But now VERY low noise clocks are much smaller and less expensive than they were (still not cheap, but significantly less than before) so it was decided it was very important to use these in this design. This is probably the most important improvement over the microRendu.

 

3) replacing switching regulators with ultra low noise linears

In the MicroRendu the ultra low noise regulators were used for the clock, the hub, the USB subcircuit in the processor and and the clocking tree in the processor. But the processor core and the memory chips were run from switching regulators. This was done to cut down on the heat generated. If linear regulators had been used for these high current circuits the small case would not have been able to dissipate the heat and would have been too hot.

 

With the larger case there is enough surface area to support the linear regulators for the processor core and memory chips.

 

4) improved board layout.

With a larger board we have been able to layout the processor subsystem such that the power and ground noise it generates bypasses the clock and hub circuits, significantly decreasing their affect on the output jitter.

 

#3 and #4 together prevent the power and ground noise generated by the operation of the processor from affecting the ultra low noise clock, supplying the USB output with a very low noise clock signature.

 

That is about all I can say for now.

 

John S.

[rickca]

20 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

That is about all I can say for now.

Thanks, John.  Excellent start.

[pam1975]

thank you John, this sounds really exciting.

[Theobetley]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

Since Jesus has said I can give some info on what has changed with the ultraRendu,here goes:

there are foure major changes:

1) bigger size.

This allows some of the other changes to happen. The microRendu was designed very small so it could fit behind a DAC with a solid adapter between them. This was done to get the highest Signal Integrity (SI) at the DAC input. Over the lifetime of the project several companies have been producing some short high quality USB cables which makes the "box behind the DAC" concept not as necessary as before. This lets us use a larger box which allows some improvements to the design.

 

2) much lower jitter clock.

When the microRendu project was started really good clocks were large and expensive so the choice was made to go with with a good but not best available clock. At this point we didn't understand how critical this next step in lower noise clocks was for many USB input DACs.

 

But now VERY low noise clocks are much smaller and less expensive than they were (still not cheap, but significantly less than before) so it was decided it was very important to use these in this design. This is probably the most important improvement over the microRendu.

 

3) replacing switching regulators with ultra low noise linears

In the MicroRendu the ultra low noise regulators were used for the clock, the hub, the USB subcircuit in the processor and and the clocking tree in the processor. But the processor core and the memory chips were run from switching regulators. This was done to cut down on the heat generated. If linear regulators had been used for these high current circuits the small case would not have been able to dissipate the heat and would have been too hot.

 

With the larger case there is enough surface area to support the linear regulators for the processor core and memory chips.

 

4) improved board layout.

With a larger board we have been able to layout the processor subsystem such that the power and ground noise it generates bypasses the clock and hub circuits, significantly decreasing their affect on the output jitter.

 

#3 and #4 together prevent the power and ground noise generated by the operation of the processor from affecting the ultra low noise clock, supplying the USB output with a very low noise clock signature.

 

That is about all I can say for now.

 

John S.

So John since many of us follow the new SOTM clock thread here on CA will the new UltraRendu clock be competive with the SOTM new clock?

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

Since Jesus has said I can give some info on what has changed with the ultraRendu,here goes:

there are foure major changes:

1) bigger size.

This allows some of the other changes to happen. The microRendu was designed very small so it could fit behind a DAC with a solid adapter between them. This was done to get the highest Signal Integrity (SI) at the DAC input. Over the lifetime of the project several companies have been producing some short high quality USB cables which makes the "box behind the DAC" concept not as necessary as before. This lets us use a larger box which allows some improvements to the design.

 

2) much lower jitter clock.

When the microRendu project was started really good clocks were large and expensive so the choice was made to go with with a good but not best available clock. At this point we didn't understand how critical this next step in lower noise clocks was for many USB input DACs.

 

But now VERY low noise clocks are much smaller and less expensive than they were (still not cheap, but significantly less than before) so it was decided it was very important to use these in this design. This is probably the most important improvement over the microRendu.

 

3) replacing switching regulators with ultra low noise linears

In the MicroRendu the ultra low noise regulators were used for the clock, the hub, the USB subcircuit in the processor and and the clocking tree in the processor. But the processor core and the memory chips were run from switching regulators. This was done to cut down on the heat generated. If linear regulators had been used for these high current circuits the small case would not have been able to dissipate the heat and would have been too hot.

 

With the larger case there is enough surface area to support the linear regulators for the processor core and memory chips.

 

4) improved board layout.

With a larger board we have been able to layout the processor subsystem such that the power and ground noise it generates bypasses the clock and hub circuits, significantly decreasing their affect on the output jitter.

 

#3 and #4 together prevent the power and ground noise generated by the operation of the processor from affecting the ultra low noise clock, supplying the USB output with a very low noise clock signature.

 

That is about all I can say for now.

 

John S.

sounds like an isoRegen in a mR.

[Matias]

If the price increase is higher yet within reasonable then I will definitely buy it. I hope it does not double the price just because the market may accept it.

[rickca]

4 minutes ago, Matias said:

If the price increase is higher yet within reasonable then I will definitely buy it. I hope it does not double the price just because the market may accept it.

Matias, price is announced $875.  Pay attention!

http://www.sonore.us/ultraRendu.html

[http404]

Since I haven't seen anyone ask yet [and "other projects" makes you ask ], is there any likelihood of pre-order specials for the Sonore fan-base here?!

[R1200CL]

49 minutes ago, http404 said:

Since I haven't seen anyone ask yet [and "other projects" makes you ask ], is there any likelihood of pre-order specials for the Sonore fan-base here?!

 

The closest you get is to send an empty email to [email protected] with header UltraRendu. 

 

[vortecjr]

7 hours ago, http404 said:

Since I haven't seen anyone ask yet [and "other projects" makes you ask ], is there any likelihood of pre-order specials for the Sonore fan-base here?!

Right now we just collecting email from interested people.

[R1200CL]

10 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

That is about all I can say for now.

 

 

Does the ISO regen, have parts, clocks, etc., that we could consider using it in conjunction with the UltraRendu, or do you may say a combination of MicroRendu and ISO regen would most likely equal or slightly outperform the UltraRendu ?

 

An anticipation is ok, as I don't expect you have tested this. 

[mozes]

4 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

Does the ISO regen, have parts, clocks, etc., that we could consider using it in conjunction with the UltraRendu, or do you may say a combination of MicroRendu and ISO regen would most likely equal or slightly outperform the UltraRendu ?

 

An anticipation is ok, as I don't expect you have tested this. 

Interesting question!

[vortecjr]

It's not appropriate to talk about the design on the UltraRegen here. Also, there are to many variables involved in these combinations that pure speculation is not helpful to anyone.

[mikicasellas]

41 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

It's not appropriate to talk about the design on the UltraRegen here. Also, there are to many variables involved in these combinations that pure speculation is not helpful to anyone.

 

Most of us are very interested, but i believe i speak for my self and no doubt for so many others that would like to know more clearly about these details in order to be more interested 

[JohnSwenson]

1 hour ago, mikicasellas said:

 

Most of us are very interested, but i believe i speak for my self and no doubt for so many others that would like to know more clearly about these details in order to be more interested 

The info I presented several posts up is as much as I can do right now.

 

John S.