AURALiC G2 series digital components (ARIES G2, VEGA G2 and etc) information

[allhifi]

RE: Auralic "Aries G2": For sure, a beautiful and competently engineered product.

 

Yet, inexplicably, neither a conventional i2S (HDMi / RJ-45) nor Wrd. Clk. in/outs (over BNC) ?

 

Yeh I know he wishes to sell his (non MQA) DAC along with Streamer, but fails to recognize that there are innumerous existing DAC's with these highly respected interfaces. And that not everyone will desire his new DAC --or wishes to invest in both at once.

 

In either case, a major faux pas that will hinder sales (and respect) significantly.

 

peter jasz

[The Computer Audiophile]

26 minutes ago, allhifi said:

In either case, a major faux pas that will hinder sales (and respect) significantly.

 

Why would he lose respect for this design decision? I don't see how you can tie respecting a person or company into a design decision like this. Nobody is forcing you to purchase the product. You don't like it, you don't buy it. It's that easy. 

 

I believe you may be a little melodramatic with this one :~)

[allhifi]

6 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Why would he lose respect for this design decision? I don't see how you can tie respecting a person or company into a design decision like this. Nobody is forcing you to purchase the product. You don't like it, you don't buy it. It's that easy. 

 

I believe you may be a little melodramatic with this one :~)

 

By far, the best digital connection (bar none) is either of the ones referenced. Does that give him some credibility that either is not employed? A $4K Streamer without the finest connection ? Why not ? 

 

And thanks for telling me I "may "bypass" (not purchase) the product. Without your suggestion, I don't know what I'd do !

 

pj   

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, allhifi said:

 

By far, the best digital connection (bar none) is either of the ones referenced. Does that give him some credibility that either is not employed? A $4K Streamer without the finest connection ? Why not ? 

 

And thanks for telling me I "may "bypass" (not purchase) the product. Without your suggestion, I don't know what I'd do !

 

pj   

 

Wow. 

[allhifi]

That's what i thought when I read your reply  -WOW.

 

Some guy looks at a $4K Streamer without the lowest jitter interface extant and says " why is that concerning ?"  Wow, for sure.

 

pj

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, allhifi said:

That's what i thought when I read your reply  -WOW.

 

Some guy looks at a $4K Streamer without the lowest jitter interface extant and says " why is that concerning ?"  Wow, for sure.

 

pj

 

You seem very angry. This is audio. Nobody is saving babies or killing puppies.

 

Perhaps a quote from Bertrand Russell can encapsulate my thoughts better than I:

 

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”

[allhifi]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

You seem very angry. This is audio. Nobody is saving babies or killing puppies.

 

Perhaps a quote from Bertrand Russell can encapsulate my thoughts better than I:

 

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”

 

CA: Not angry at all. However, it truly troubles me that consumers expectations are so low for expensive equipment ! These guys (designers) should be accountable. And if not, it's prudent for a passionate person to inform potential consumers of these blunders.

 

I'm not sure if you are unable to fabricate your own thoughts (accurately & succinctly) or whether you simply used this authors line/quote to deflect what otherwise may be seen as a bit of your own harshness ?

 

pj   

(I, on the other write endlessly, and shall share one with you (a poem or quote) tomorrow. I need some sleep. lol) 

[The Computer Audiophile]

28 minutes ago, allhifi said:

 

CA: Not angry at all. However, it truly troubles me that consumers expectations are so low for expensive equipment ! These guys (designers) should be accountable. And if not, it's prudent for a passionate person to inform potential consumers of these blunders.

 

I'm not sure if you are unable to fabricate your own thoughts (accurately & succinctly) or whether you simply used this authors line/quote to deflect what otherwise may be seen as a bit of your own harshness ?

 

pj   

(I, on the other write endlessly, and shall share one with you (a poem or quote) tomorrow. I need some sleep. lol) 

 

Peter - Please show me data with respect to consumer expectations being low for expensive equipment. 

 

You are acting like the product police. If you disagree with a design, someone must be held accountable. Very strange to me. 

 

You have 100% confidence in your opinions. Can you share what information you  used to reach your conclusions?

 

Based my research, I'm fairly certain your conclusions are incorrect. I've been talking to DAC designers about interfaces for 10 years. Each designer has a little different take on the choices, but absolutely none of the top designers I most respect would agree with you. What is said online in marketing materials and what is said behind closed doors are two different things. 

 

There is no perfect interface. There is no best interface. If we look at interfaces in a vacuum and don't consider any other components or what's going on to get data to the interface and what happens after the interface, we will reach different conclusions than looking at real world situations. Specifications, application notes, and theoretical potential are far different from an implemented product. 

 

If there were one or two best interfaces, all high performance products would offer them. 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

There is no perfect interface. There is no best interface. If we look at interfaces in a vacuum and don't consider any other components or what's going on to get data to the interface and what happens after the interface, we will reach different conclusions than looking at real world situations. Specifications, application notes, and theoretical potential are far different from an implemented product. 

 

If there were one or two best interfaces, all high performance products would offer them.

Yes. Somehow audiophiles develop what I refer to as "religious beliefs" about specific technologies: one will tell you with 100% certainty that USB sucks. Another will tell you it is a fact that USB is better than SPDIF. Or the opposite, take your pick.

 

I'm not sure why people have to latch on to such things as if their personal identity depends on them. 

 

People, if you've been around audio long enough you see that all of the common tech solutions can sound either great or mediocre - depending on implementation.

 

And yeah, don't take the marketing talk too seriously. Some of the same companies that told you USB was inferior 5 years ago now champion it in their top of the line/state of the art designs. Just one example of many.

[mjb]

And marketing must be a big part of it, how else can a company take one box and justify turning it into 4 new products: 3 of them optional for "extra performance".

[Emerald Core]

I just hope their G2 stack gets reviewed before December. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, Emerald Core said:

I just hope their G2 stack gets reviewed before December. 

Why? I'll be getting it, not sure about timeline though. 

[Emerald Core]

28 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Why? I'll be getting it, not sure about timeline though. 

 

 

After upgrading to Scala Utopia, and almost securing siltech speaker cables.

 

Next thing is to compare G2 stack, Sotm Ultra combo, Network Bridge and finally Aurender N10. 

 

I would love to hear your opinion on these four streamers. 

[Mike Pinkerton]

I still don't get why there is no standalone DAC in the G2 lineup. Everything, even the Vega, has built-in streaming. Am I missing something? 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, Mike Pinkerton said:

I still don't get why there is no standalone DAC in the G2 lineup. Everything, even the Vega, has built-in streaming. Am I missing something? 

I think Auralic is into having convenient multi-function units that give "value" to customers. 

You know, you can buy one and not use their streamer....

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Mike Pinkerton said:

I still don't get why there is no standalone DAC in the G2 lineup. Everything, even the Vega, has built-in streaming. Am I missing something? 

 

Hi Mike - What do you consider to be a stand alone DAC? Something without an Ethernet input? Just curious. 

[Mike Pinkerton]

33 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Hi Mike - What do you consider to be a stand alone DAC? Something without an Ethernet input? Just curious. 

 

Yeah, it doesn't need to be RoonReady, etc etc. I already have a Raspberry Pi for that. I guess it doesn't really add that much complexity to the Vega, but given that they're raising the price by a couple thousand dollars, it would be nice to not have to take every kitchen-sink feature they toss in. 

[pl_svn]

yes: either give me a full blown, top of the line, box that does it all or dedicated separates, please

why do I have to get an Aries G2 plus a Vega G2 which also incorporates (as it looks) an Aries "G1"? 

[allhifi]

16 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Peter - Please show me data with respect to consumer expectations being low for expensive equipment. 

 

You are acting like the product police. If you disagree with a design, someone must be held accountable. Very strange to me. 

 

You have 100% confidence in your opinions. Can you share what information you  used to reach your conclusions?

 

Based my research, I'm fairly certain your conclusions are incorrect. I've been talking to DAC designers about interfaces for 10 years. Each designer has a little different take on the choices, but absolutely none of the top designers I most respect would agree with you. What is said online in marketing materials and what is said behind closed doors are two different things. 

 

There is no perfect interface. There is no best interface. If we look at interfaces in a vacuum and don't consider any other components or what's going on to get data to the interface and what happens after the interface, we will reach different conclusions than looking at real world situations. Specifications, application notes, and theoretical potential are far different from an implemented product. 

 

If there were one or two best interfaces, all high performance products would offer them. 

 

CA: Thank you for your detailed reply.

 

Firstly, let me acknowledge your extensive (and earned) knowledge base, and indeed, considerable expertise -and industry insight.   

 

Next, you misread my statement, which read: " ...consumers expectations are so low for expensive equipment" .

 

And NOT, as you somehow read: 

... " Please show me data with respect to consumer expectations being low for expensive equipment." 

 

There is a healthy market for premium, expensive gear. That's a wonderful thing. AND, at those price points i would expect the manufacturer to not only give consumers the flawed SPDIF interfaces, but also the superior (according to the designer's and listeners themselves!) i2S or Wrd. Clk. connections.

 

Let me ask you, since my original comment was based on the Auralic G2 Aries (and its inexplicable absence of i2S/WC THE OPTION OF USERS USING THE Interface of their desire/choice). Why should they be restricted to using SPDIF, when so many existing DAC's also offer (in addition to the standard, ubiquitous SPDIF connections) i2S or Wrd. Clk. connections ?

 

What's worse, in your theory (of what's best or not --and I'm not here, nor qualified to answer that question) is that the Auralic Aries G2 (and matching G2 DAC) indeed HAS A PROPRIETARY i2S connection between them !

Why would they offer such a (no-standard) connection I wonder?

I suspect they realize it's simply a  superior interface. And by not offering a standard i2S or WC connection, any and all existing owners of digital components with THESE CONNECTION OPTIONS are out of luck ! WHY ? 

(It's a flippi'n $4K piece !! And I, joe consumer can't take advantage of the long-standing superiority of these connections (that Esoteric, Rockna, PS Audio, even the bargain basement priced Gustard X-20PRO and many others have offered EXPECTANT audiophile consumers for decades !).

 

Is it because, i2S or WC are simply a made-up 'format' to appease audiophiles? It appears you have the insight to answer this !

Please let us know if that statement is true or not. And why.

(Your insider experience may prove very, very valuable to many of us)

 

 Moving on, you state:

" You are acting like the product police. If you disagree with a design, someone must be held accountable. Very strange to me"

 

What do you think sites such as yours are providing --a policing forum, plain and simple. And, a great thing at that I must add. As do, sharp-eyed/mind readers, and of course, we hope, the traditional audio rags.

 

It strikes me how bent-out-of-shape (and angry) your reply, when all the G2 series had to do was OFFER these additional digital connections (IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO ENSURE GREATEST CONNECTION FLEXIBILITY) for greatest compatibility.

 

That they did not, is cheating consumers on their choice of what they feel is best. And, after forking over four-thousand dollars for the privilege of being denied such access (to by so many accounts) the superiority of i2S/WC, consumers should be pleased ??

(Those that find that OK are simply setting their expectations far too low for such a pricey item)

 

Continuing, you ask " You have 100% confidence in your opinions. Can you share what information you  used to reach your conclusions?"

 

What confidence am I espousing CA? Does it make sense to restrict digital interface options to consumers spending $4,000. US$ ?

YES or NO ? Please answer.  

 

What "information used ... conclusions ?" Once again, I made no such statement. The "information" you query is all over the NET going back twenty years. Search it yourself.

 

 Finally, and mercifully, you yourself answer this ridiculous conversation by stating, correctly:

 

" There is no perfect interface. There is no best interface. If we look at interfaces in a vacuum and don't consider any other components or what's going on to get data to the interface and what happens after the interface, we will reach different conclusions than looking at real world situations. Specifications, application notes, and theoretical potential are far different from an implemented product. 

If there were one or two best interfaces, all high performance products would offer them."

 

Precisely why ALL (premium digital HiFi) should be offer consumers spending serious money all available connection options so at the very least, the purchaser himself can decide on which works best for him, and his particular product compliment.            

 

peter jasz

 

[allhifi]

15 hours ago, firedog said:

Yes. Somehow audiophiles develop what I refer to as "religious beliefs" about specific technologies: one will tell you with 100% certainty that USB sucks. Another will tell you it is a fact that USB is better than SPDIF. Or the opposite, take your pick.

 

I'm not sure why people have to latch on to such things as if their personal identity depends on them. 

 

People, if you've been around audio long enough you see that all of the common tech solutions can sound either great or mediocre - depending on implementation.

 

And yeah, don't take the marketing talk too seriously. Some of the same companies that told you USB was inferior 5 years ago now champion it in their top of the line/state of the art designs. Just one example of many.

 

Hmm, that's great. What appears to be missing here is some basic logic, extracted no less from the authors own words, namely, quote:

 

"  Another will tell you it is a fact that USB is better than SPDIF. Or the opposite, take your pick."

 

Precisely. That's the point. Unless there is a reason a specific (highly regarded, and long-standing) interface is not provisioned for, EXPLAIN ! And, if you are unable or unwilling to offer an explanation for its omission,, a prospective purchaser would be wise to consider and explore others that have these highly respected digital connections. 

 

Your USB as a suitable interface is a fine example of some folks and/or companies doing a 180. However, name one that states that either i2S or Word Clock (Wrd. Clk.) is, was and will continue to be the INFERIOR digital interface ?

 

pj

 

 

 

 

 

[allhifi]

15 hours ago, mjb said:

And marketing must be a big part of it, how else can a company take one box and justify turning it into 4 new products: 3 of them optional for "extra performance".

 

I believe Auralic has no interest in either value propositions or worse, explanations. (RE: G2 series)

 

pj 

[Milt99]

12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Why? I'll be getting it, not sure about timeline though. 

That's what I want to hear! Cool.

Although the Vega G2 stretches my budget like a big wad of bubble gum, I'm waiting on buying anything to replace my Oppo-105 until the reviews start coming in.

The Holo Audio Spring Level 3 is also on a very short list.

My view on digital front-ends is to either go "low", like the Oppo-205 which would be imo, the best value proposition or go bigger like the above 2 pieces mentioned for at least a modicum of longevity. dCS,  Playback Designs, & the other reference designs are thankfully too far out of my league to consider.

To me, the level of personal support & intelligent design you get makes whatever connection you do or don't get is all in context.

[Hauser]

2 hours ago, allhifi said:

 

I believe Auralic has no interest in either value propositions or worse, explanations. (RE: G2 series)

 

pj 

Many customers have purchased Vega and Aries products expressly for their value, myself included.  Auralic are one of the few companies that willingly participate in these threads to inform people with useful questions.

 

Martin

[mikicasellas]

51 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

That's what I want to hear! Cool.

Although the Vega G2 stretches my budget like a big wad of bubble gum, I'm waiting on buying anything to replace my Oppo-105 until the reviews start coming in.

The Holo Audio Spring Level 3 is also on a very short list.

My view on digital front-ends is to either go "low", like the Oppo-205 which would be imo, the best value proposition or go bigger like the above 2 pieces mentioned for at least a modicum of longevity. dCS,  Playback Designs, & the other reference designs are thankfully too far out of my league to consider.

To me, the level of personal support & intelligent design you get makes whatever connection you do or don't get is all in context.

 

I have the same approach...i will be waiting for the reviews of Auralic GEN2, Vinnie Rossi LIO DAC2 and then make my mind towards GEN2, HOLO Spring or Vinnie Rossi LIO DAC2, in the meanwhile i got an OPPO 205 and in favor of it and having had the Auralic VEGA, this new OPPO can surprise you BIG time! for its price it is A_WE_SO_ME!!

[uncola]

hdmi i2s isn't that common past the last year other than ps audio stuff.  but yeah it does seem to be the current trend since new r2r dacs from china which arguably are the companies most cable of quickly responding to change in consumer interest DO all seem to have it as they introduce new models this year..  but auralic is not disrespecting their customers just by not having the most trendy input port..