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DIY DC power cables


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7 hours ago, BigGuy said:

Thank you, John.  This has got to be one of the best DIY improvement posts and one I will be trying.

 

A couple of questions...

 

For John:  Given the thread topic, the JSSG has great applicability to DC power cables.  Does it also offer value for other cables, e.g., USB, interconnects, AC power cables, etc., and, if so, how would they rank?

Which would be better...tinned or copper braid?

 

For anyone:  Can anyone provide sources of braided shield here in USA that people have done business with?

I bought some copper braid shield from a motorcycle shop some time ago intended not only for protecting but blinging-up gas line tubing.

Sure, you can various sizes of tinned copper sleeving on Amazon.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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The JSSG is primarily effective at lower frequencies. As mentioned in my post there is enough parasitic capacitance in most shielded cables to provide shielding at high frequencies. Where traditional doesn't work well is low frequencies. SO audio cables are a great place for it. High frequency cables (such as USB etc) no so much. If done right it would be effective at shielding power line frequency interference  for high speed cables (which MAY be useful), BUT unless the cable was specifically designed for it adding it to an existing cable will more than likely mess up the high frequency performance of the cable.

 

John S.

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12 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The JSSG is primarily effective at lower frequencies. As mentioned in my post there is enough parasitic capacitance in most shielded cables to provide shielding at high frequencies. Where traditional doesn't work well is low frequencies. SO audio cables are a great place for it. High frequency cables (such as USB etc) no so much. If done right it would be effective at shielding power line frequency interference  for high speed cables (which MAY be useful), BUT unless the cable was specifically designed for it adding it to an existing cable will more than likely mess up the high frequency performance of the cable.

 

John S.

Thank you, John, for the additional explanation and the caution re applying JSSG to high frequency cable, e.g., USB.  The few DC cables in my system are less than 12 inches in length so guessing it might not be worth the bother to do these.  Any thoughts about the length where the shielding effect would become significant.

 

lmitche, I did see offerings of tinned copper braid on Amazon.  Given what I would expect to be relative ease of soldering to copper  sleeve, any special reason to pick tinned?  If not, then I guess it becomes issue of aesthetics.

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12 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

Thank you, John, for the additional explanation and the caution re applying JSSG to high frequency cable, e.g., USB.  The few DC cables in my system are less than 12 inches in length so guessing it might not be worth the bother to do these.  Any thoughts about the length where the shielding effect would become significant.

 

lmitche, I did see offerings of tinned copper braid on Amazon.  Given what I would expect to be relative ease of soldering to copper  sleeve, any special reason to pick tinned?  If not, then I guess it becomes issue of aesthetics.

 

@BigGuy

If you are interested how a proper 8 conductor starquad USB cable with dual JSSG will turn out I will get one in a couple of weeks. I will be posting my impressions in my thread The true experimental tweak thread as soon as I have tried it IRL. ?

 

20170904_122455-1.thumb.jpg.e7aeb4f3d8b9ac573577ecd145c062da.jpg20170904_194646-1.thumb.jpg.e6117be5c501b9a56e7301b9f6858632.jpg

 

 

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8 conductors!  Thinking that would be star quad for D+ and D- plus shielded star for 5V and GND.  Are the data conductors also shielded?  Hard to imagine trying to get all those conductors soldered to the pins?!  I had a design in mind for a DIY cable but was not considering star quad.  This thread has likely changed my  mind.

 

Looking forward to your impressions.

 

FWIW, CAD has announced 2 new USB cables.  Gulp!

https://daviddenyerpr.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/press-release-cad-usb-cable-i-ii-2017-09.pdf

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19 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

8 conductors!  Thinking that would be star quad for D+ and D- plus shielded star for 5V and GND.  Are the data conductors also shielded?  Hard to imagine trying to get all those conductors soldered to the pins?!  I had a design in mind for a DIY cable but was not considering star quad.  This thread has likely changed my  mind.

 

Looking forward to your impressions.

 

FWIW, CAD has announced 2 new USB cables.  Gulp!

https://daviddenyerpr.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/press-release-cad-usb-cable-i-ii-2017-09.pdf

 

Yes, the 4 conductor D+ & D- is is a separate sleeve and the 4 conductor 5v & GND is in the other separate sleeve. All 4 ends of the sleeves is soldered to a drain wire. I think it is all pretty visable on the picture. Luckily it is not me soldering the cable. ATL Hi-Fi is doing all that for me! ?

 

The CAD looks like a surprisingly similar contruction to my current 3-wire Elijah Audio Konvertible Lite 115mm, which is considerable cheaper (bottom cable). I have a 500mm version as well, but have'nt got a picture available at the moment.

 

IMG_5829.thumb.JPG.e6a2ea4062911a7d5bacec851f4e936e.JPG

 

 

 

 

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okay then, for dc cables, solder sep. ground wire to shield.  but for analog cables, sep. ground wire but not attached to shielding?   just trying to get the basics as im not fully following all lol

 

sorry for type, i broke my r wrist so l handed typing for now.  

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

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For a single ended cable (RCA plugs on each end), star quad carries the signals, one pair to the pin, one pair to the ring. Shield around bundle is not connected in any way to the star quad or RCA plugs. A separate wire connects one end of the shield to the other.

 

I have been experimenting with interconnects done this way, Canare microphone cable did not sound so great, BUT Belden 1804A sounds fantastic! This is very thin, very flexible shielded starquad with silver plated copper strands with polypropylene insulation and a braided shield. I used the new Eichman harmony RCA plugs with this ($39 for 4 at VH Audio). For the shield wire I loosely wrapped silicone rubber insulated 24AWG super flexible wire (on Amazon from GNTECHGO) (about three turns per foot). 

 

These connectors are a dream to use and they even have an insert for using thin cable. The shell has plenty of room to cover the shield to wire connection. Highly recommended.

 

The cable takes quite a while to burn in, I would give it a week of constant playing before assessing sonic qualities. It sounds fantastic, is super flexible and inexpensive to make.

 

I got my cable from Markertek in the US, there is a place in the UK that also sells by the foot, I'm not sure about other areas.

 

John S.

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5 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Belden 1804A sounds fantastic!

 

I completely agree. I followed John's advice earlier in this thread and made some cables with the Belden 1804a.

 

I used Neutrik Profi connectors for an RCA pair and Neutrik XLR connectors for a balanced pair. Really great sounding DIY cables.

 

 

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17 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

For a single ended cable (RCA plugs on each end), star quad carries the signals, one pair to the pin, one pair to the ring. Shield around bundle is not connected in any way to the star quad or RCA plugs. A separate wire connects one end of the shield to the other.

 

I have been experimenting with interconnects done this way, Canare microphone cable did not sound so great, BUT Belden 1804A sounds fantastic! This is very thin, very flexible shielded starquad with silver plated copper strands with polypropylene insulation and a braided shield. I used the new Eichman harmony RCA plugs with this ($39 for 4 at VH Audio). For the shield wire I loosely wrapped silicone rubber insulated 24AWG super flexible wire (on Amazon from GNTECHGO) (about three turns per foot). 

 

These connectors are a dream to use and they even have an insert for using thin cable. The shell has plenty of room to cover the shield to wire connection. Highly recommended.

 

The cable takes quite a while to burn in, I would give it a week of constant playing before assessing sonic qualities. It sounds fantastic, is super flexible and inexpensive to make.

 

I got my cable from Markertek in the US, there is a place in the UK that also sells by the foot, I'm not sure about other areas.

 

John S.

oh!  i see now!  thanks john, i missed this in our pm's.   i  only laid silicon wire on outside bundle with no connection to shield.   a dunce move lol  i'm glad i asked ;)

 

same 3 wraps/foot on DC cables too john?

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

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  • 3 weeks later...
29 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Fair Radio in Lima Ohio has a barrel full.

https://fairradio.com/

I think barrel is empty since I could not find any reference to shielding, etc. in their full product list.

 

While on the subject I have been reading that Mu-metal provides better shielding properties than copper or tin-plated  copper braid shielding.  Definitely not a shielding expert myself and, in this case, a little knowledge may be a dangerous thing!

 

Anyone have further info on this with potential application to cable shielding?

 

Just got in the parts to make up some grounding umbilicals for my LPSs as well as an outlet box for power supply and grounding plugs.  To someone's comment, I DID buy GREEN wire for the umbilicals and a few of these for fun...  :D

http://www.hardwareandtools.com/cooper-wiring-bp3867-4gn-high-visibility-plug-fluorescent-green-efda-7490.html

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1 hour ago, Speedskater said:

Fair Radio is not an internet store. It's a dusty old building with stuff sitting on shelf's for decades.

The braid (in random lengths & sizes) is in a 55 gallon cardboard drum near the door.

Send them an e-mail or phone.

Ah!  That would explain why could not find "barrel" on their list!  :D

 

I found this supplier of copper braid...

 

<https://www.techflex.com/land_metal.asp>

 

Speaking of copper braid, got some clarification on use of Mu-metal.  Mu-metal is best used for EMI, which is low frequency.  Copper is the best for RFI, which is high frequency and likely the biggest issue with cables.

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  • 1 month later...

Thank you. I agree $15 isn’t much but I was putting together an order of a few cables for him so it all adds up. 

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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1 hour ago, charlesphoto said:

Thank you. I agree $15 isn’t much but I was putting together an order of a few cables for him so it all adds up. 

 

I do not think that the plugs matter that much in terms of SQ on either USB or Ethernet. I do like the Metz plugs on my Ghent ET02 since they locks nicely into place, but that's all.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I do not think that the plugs matter that much in terms of SQ on either USB or Ethernet. I do like the Metz plugs on my Ghent ET02 since they locks nicely into place, but that's all.

 

Think I might actually go for the right angle Metz after all, as long as I can determine if it will plug into the microRendu in the orientation I need. Do you know what the A/B options are on the JSSG etehernet cables? I’ll email Ghent as well.

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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1 minute ago, charlesphoto said:

 

Think I might actually go for the right angle Metz after all, as long as I can determine if it will plug into the microRendu in the orientation I need. Do you know what the A/B options are on the JSSG etehernet cables? I’ll email Ghent as well.

 

Good descition! T568B is the one you want. Both will work just fine though. Just a tip! If you have a network switch. Make that cable the cable from the network switch to the streamer/PC as short as possible. Sounds better!

 

 

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I will actually be coming from a TP Link MC100 FMC. Same thinking on length?

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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9 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

I will actually be coming from a TP Link MC100 FMC. Same thinking on length?

 

Not completely sure, but I cannot see any reason why it should make a difference. A tip on FMC is to try LT3045 voltage regulators in series before the down-hill FMC. Buy LT3045 6v & LT3045 5v powered by 7 - 6.7v. Looks like this and sounds truly great.

 

IMG_6703-1.thumb.JPG.353618251988b74d039832397ddbf607.JPG

 

 

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Wondering about these. The TP-Links are 9V but I think can pretty much take anything from 5-12. And this is for the last FMC before the rendu? These are from that Alexey guy? And if I ask he’ll solder the connectors? The rest I can do. Thanks!

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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44 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Wondering about these. The TP-Links are 9V but I think can pretty much take anything from 5-12. And this is for the last FMC before the rendu? These are from that Alexey guy? And if I ask he’ll solder the connectors? The rest I can do. Thanks!

 

Yes, Alexey will solder everything for you if you ask him nicely. He solder those things like a pro. I can imagine that they will make a awesome contribution to the FMCs. Been there but left it behind since it did'nt compare to wireless adapter/Aqvox switch/copper ethernet. I can imagine that that those voltage regulators makes all the difference since they will reduce leakage into the down-hill FMCs.

If I am wrong I would not hesitate to buy the LT3045s from you!

 

 

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