JohnDonaldson Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 15 minutes ago, Ienag said: They have already Answer that the firmware update is impossible via USB port, you have to live with the problem. If W4S officially confirms there is a firmware that corrects PSM noise they certainly could do the update at their facility. I understand this course of action may not be practical for owners outside the US but it could be a consideration for those of us in the US. Is there a way for end users to find out the firmware version in their unit? Link to comment
Wyred 4 Sound Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 6 hours ago, Franatic said: 6 hours ago, Franatic said: How convenient to offer the theory/opinion that the PCM noise issue is caused by Singxer. This problem only manifests in the W4S DAC and not in any of the other DACs that Singxer is working well with. I would hope that at this point you would be more open to the possibility the issue is in your i2s application. Leter bought a used DAC2 to use for testing. I'm sure it cost more than the $399 an SU-1 would cost. Please be more careful about pointing fingers. Please thoroughly test your i2s application. It is becoming popular and more people will be using it in an application (DSD) you have not tested. It is wishful thinking that the PCM noise issue will just "go away". Evidence points that W4S likely has the problem here, not Singxer. Look, Fran. Our DAC has never had any PCM noise via I2S with any other device that we know of over all the years that we've implemented it. The Singxer is the first, and like we said, it's possible that the changes we are working with Leter on to make will correct the I2S timing to alleviate the issue. So we're doing more than 'wishful thinking'. As far as testing goes, we test with both a PS Audio device and our own server board without issue. Link to comment
Wyred 4 Sound Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 27 minutes ago, JohnDonaldson said: If W4S officially confirms there is a firmware that corrects PSM noise they certainly could do the update at their facility. I understand this course of action may not be practical for owners outside the US but it could be a consideration for those of us in the US. Is there a way for end users to find out the firmware version in their unit? John, we wish there was. But the noise is related to a timing problem within the provided I2S signal and we are hoping that the changes Singxer is making will correct this. To see the firmware version, turn the DAC off in the back, then turn it back on. The firmware version will flash on the display. Link to comment
Franatic Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Wyred 4 Sound said: Look, Fran. Our DAC has never had any PCM noise via I2S with any other device that we know of over all the years that we've implemented it. The Singxer is the first, and like we said, it's possible that the changes we are working with Leter on to make will correct the I2S timing to alleviate the issue. So we're doing more than 'wishful thinking'. As far as testing goes, we test with both a PS Audio device and our own server board without issue. Exactly which PS Audio device and what is it's output? What is your own server board and how does this test your i2s protocol? They didn't detect your variance for PS Audio i2s protocol. My agenda is to forge the cleanest and easiest possible fix for the 2 issues for future users. The DSD phase inversion will need to be fixed by Singxer firmware, that seems apparent. The PCM noise issue is debatable. Singxer can just as easily say the W4S has input noise issues since Singxer has no such issue with any other DAC. I'm weary of this, so I'm out at this point. I'm sure Leter will take care of my remaining issue. I appreciate the modification on my SU-1 that fixed the PCM noise issue. However, that route is not possible for everyone. I hope future customers can solder. 2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/ Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0 > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse > 1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod 2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System ***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources Link to comment
Wyred 4 Sound Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Franatic said: Exactly which PS Audio device and what is it's output? What is your own server board and how does this test your i2s protocol? As we've said many times here and elsewhere, PS Audio PWT. Our server board is our music server, which works perfectly with our I2S, i.e. no noise, phase issues, etc. 1 hour ago, Franatic said: My agenda is to forge the cleanest and easiest possible fix for the 2 issues for future users. Our collective thanks. We're working with Singxer on it as well. 1 hour ago, Franatic said: The PCM noise issue is debatable. Singxer can just as easily say the W4S has input noise issues since Singxer has no such issue with any other DAC. This is why we're working with Singxer. 1 hour ago, Franatic said: I appreciate the modification on my SU-1 that fixed the PCM noise issue. However, that route is not possible for everyone. I hope future customers can solder. You're welcome. However, once the Singxer fix is implemented, we expect the fix we did for your unit to be irrelevant for future users. 1 hour ago, Franatic said: I'm weary of this, so I'm out at this point. Enjoy the weekend. Link to comment
MINORISUKE Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 There is still no explanation why No.1/3 DATA+/DATA- and DATA-/DATA+ sound the same without absolute polarity swap. If their "revised" I2S pin assignment is correct, PS Audio PWT must have absolute polarity swap. Probably, they have no equipment to measure and judge just by listening, which is not easy. They have not disclosed their DSD pin assignment yet. I2S is a terminology applicable only for PCM. As I am not an owner of W4S products, they are not obliged to comment about my suspect. I have been involved, simply because Leter had asked me to have a look. Link to comment
jojeong8338 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Audirvana of MACBook ---<USB>--- SU-1 ---<I2S>--- W4S DAC2V2se W4S DAC2V2se cannot play the upsampled PCM sources from Audirvana as I already reported. SU-1 turns on 2 LEDs when player plays but DSD2V2se show "<?>" after <44.1k> in ready state. It makes me a peanut because the media players sometimes can not play like upsampling case. In the reference, USB input to W4S DAC2V2se w/o SU-1 works well. Can Leter @Singxer check this? Link to comment
Ienag Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 On 5/5/2017 at 8:25 PM, Wyred 4 Sound said: This is why we're working with Singxer. You're welcome. However, once the Singxer fix is implemented, we expect the fix we did for your unit to be irrelevant for future users. Could W4S update us with the work progress on the severals aspects with Singxer? Link to comment
Wyred 4 Sound Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 9 hours ago, Ienag said: Could W4S update us with the work progress on the severals aspects with Singxer? We have given Leter our pin configuration and he emailed that he is working on a firmware update. Link to comment
jojeong8338 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Hi Wyred 4 Sound, I have a question about remote control. When I press 'phase' button in remocon, new W4S DAC2V2se does not respond. I remember the previous DAC2se changed the phase as I press 'phase' button. Am I right? If so, why not? Link to comment
Bamber Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, jojeong8338 said: When I press 'phase' button in remocon, new W4S DAC2V2se does not respond. I remember the previous DAC2se changed the phase as I press 'phase' button. Am I right? If so, why not? You are correct, I own both the DAC2 and the DAC2v2se. I just tested the phase button and it works on the DAC2 but not on the DAC2v2se. The DAC2v2se also can't move to another option in the setup menu once it reaches the discrete setting. It will toggle off/on but won't move to another option. SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3, SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s Link to comment
Ienag Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 19 hours ago, Wyred 4 Sound said: We have given Leter our pin configuration and he emailed that he is working on a firmware update. Could we ask W4S to update us when the firmware will be ready? Link to comment
Wyred 4 Sound Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 7 hours ago, Bamber said: You are correct, I own both the DAC2 and the DAC2v2se. I just tested the phase button and it works on the DAC2 but not on the DAC2v2se. The DAC2v2se also can't move to another option in the setup menu once it reaches the discrete setting. It will toggle off/on but won't move to another option. Regarding the phase, that is correct. Our fully balanced design took advantage of a former feature on the ESS chip that inverted output polarity. On the new chip, that feature was removed. For the setup menu, the discrete setting is at the 'bottom' of the menu (refer to the manual for the complete menu tree). Once there, hit the up button to get back to previous settings. 5 hours ago, Ienag said: Could we ask W4S to update us when the firmware will be ready? We believe Leter has everything he needs from us for the update. We've enjoyed very open communication between each other so I expect if anything further from us is needed, he would reach out. I would inquire with him for any ETA-related questions. Link to comment
Bamber Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, Wyred 4 Sound said: Regarding the phase, that is correct. Our fully balanced design took advantage of a former feature on the ESS chip that inverted output polarity. On the new chip, that feature was removed. Thank you Tony. SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3, SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s Link to comment
Bamber Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I've been watching this thread to see if a solution could be found. I'm wondering would it be quicker to buy one of these instead of the SU-1? http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/158/index.html SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3, SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s Link to comment
enser Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just bought one, should have it in the next week! Link to comment
Bamber Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, enser said: Just bought one, should have it in the next week! The dealer who I purchased the W4S DAC2v2SE from is also a Matrix dealer. I have emailed to find out a price and if it will work with the W4S. Have you already confirmed that it works? SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3, SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s Link to comment
Bamber Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Also I don't see it listing a Linux driver. I will need it to work with the mR and the new SOtM SMS-200 Ultra. SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3, SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s Link to comment
enser Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Yes, this was a concern but comparing linux support info with other like devices is in line with the spec sheets. Also the chipsets being used (XMOS) work with mR fine. Generally no OS X driver needed for device = mR linux OS should be fine. I will be testing my PC and a MacBook Pro as well to be thorough. Link to comment
Bamber Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Please post a review once you receive it. SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3, SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s Link to comment
ksalno Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 They don't have the United States listed as a location they will ship to. Link to comment
enser Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Here is where I import from, reputable shop: https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/matrix-x-spdif-2-32bit-768khz-dsd512-hifi-audio-usb-interface.html Link to comment
Ienag Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 I'd suggest to remain focused on the original topic please. If you want to speak about alternative equipment you could open a dedicated topic . It is more clear for everyone and also right SU-1 is a very goog equipmemt and I'm quite confident Singxer will deliver a dedicated firmware to match W4S I2S particular configuration. You should have only patience . Link to comment
Bamber Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Agreed we should open a new thread for this product. The same thing happened in the original W4S thread SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input), Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3, SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s Link to comment
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