Jump to content
IGNORED

I2S compatibility issue between W4S dac2 & Singxer SU-1, two beatiful pieces of hi-end products


Recommended Posts

Here it's possible to continue to follow the discussion about some problem between W4S is connected to Singxer SU-1 through I2S.

 

In this case With Dsd reproduction  one channel has the phase inverted .

 

Singxer seems working on it and it is possible perhaps to solve the problem even if the reason of the problem could be on W4S I2S implementation.  

Waiting for W4S effort ...

 

We hope in a collaboration between the two manufacturer for all their customers

 

If someone could add any further info please do it.  Sorry for my English.

 

Andrea

 

Link to comment

Singxer is right I think.

It could be useful, as answer to W4S,  publish the solution of pcm noise putting a cap inside W4S instead SU1 first of all.

After that Singxer should take in consideration that reputation is made by its customers and not by another manufacturer.

I want add that Everyone have well in mind W4S doesn't give the possibility to self update the firmware and this is a great limitation for any future or actual problem. In this situation we have a crystal clear demostration.

At the end I think Singxer is right but the great attention of the customers on this topic demostrates that the manufacturer more reactive and more customer oriented will receive not only gratitude but also more credit.

Sincerely I didn't like the offer of W4S to put the cap for 125€, very unfare neither the inability to update the firmware of my Dac2 dsdSE apart sending it to the fabric..shocking.

In any case Dac2 remains an absolute reference Dac but with these nowaday singular limitation.

I'm rooting for Singxer....

Link to comment
1 hour ago, MINORISUKE said:

I hope W4S will wake up themselves.

Other PS Audio compatible DDCs such as HiFace EVO TWO encounter the same issue of absolute polarity swap.

In case W4S does not admit their fault but fix them secretly from the next batch, there will be two versions in the market and nobody will buy, as an old defect stock may come at any moment.  Its second-hand market will also disappear.

Apparently, DSD input was not tested, as they used PS Audio PWT which supported PCM only, in addition to their confidence that their I2S had been perfect back to many generations.  Yes, perfect for PCM, but not for DSD.

 

The fact that SU-1 does not have the PCM noise issue with PS Audio DS DAC Junior, which I tested at home, proves SU-1 is fully compliant.

 

W4S seems to have a worldwide dealer network.  They can arrange a free pickup from all their users, fix the problems in each dealer, and send back.  It is the responsibility of a manufacturer.

 

Ok Minorisuke, we are not manufacturers but customers that have spent a lot of money for their own passion as you I think.

It is not a war and for sure not our war.

W4S made a mistake in this case and it will be responsible vs the market anyway because nobody wants to have a not totally functional product.

Now Leter and Singxer has the possibility to release a firmware solving dsd problem of W4S owners and he should do it for Singxer customers and for all potential future customers that already own a W4S dac.

This is the only right way to get reputation on the brand and demostrate care and respect vs Singxer's customer, nobody else than customers.

Next time I will buy Singxer and not W4S probably and this will happen because Leter will release a firmware that is solving my problem, i repeat ..our problem.

I can't agree the suggestion to Leter to not provide any custom and just ready firmware wayting for W4S action ( they will pay their mistakes)  because at this moment the only losers are we, and if the situation will remain like this Singxer is putting itself on the same wrong plane.  

I repeat to you, we are loosing not others because we are not in the position to do anything. This is the great  occasion for the first who will do the right thing, solve the problem.

Immagine if Leter, after discovery the dsd solution with firmware, don't make it available. Do you think this is good or not for the brand? I can't understand this unuseful war without winners and sure loosers. We want to speak also with Leter, we are imploring him what else we should do?

Waiting also for others opinion...

Link to comment
20 hours ago, JohnDonaldson said:

I had the chance for an extended evaluation of these 2. With V2.00 firmware in the Su-1 there was no noise with PCM files nor any phase problems with DSD files. Everything was as expected.

 

Hi Jhon,

an information, regarding the phase inversion on one channel  How do you have done the test?

In any case it's possible the Holo I2S implementation is different in some particular respect W4S so it could be understandable.

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, MINORISUKE said:
Now you see adding a firmware patch to SU-1 just for the faulty W4S makes the fifth pattern, which might bring the market more into confusion.
That is why I insist W4S should fix this issue by themselves.  There is only one party involved in it.

 

Sorry but I can't agree, because if W4S will not do anything we will remain without I2S/dsd

Through our SU-1.

You have said Leter has already done a patch for the firmware so you have declared the solution exists.  Why Singxer doesn't make it available for its customers as me????

And, just to know, what are you interested in?

You perfectly know W4S can't update the firmware... so what is your scope suggesting Singxer to not providing the solution Singxer an Leter has just ready.

Frankly speaking I don't approve this approach because for sure it damage all the Singxer customers of this forum.

It is not a matter of market and... what confusion???

W4S will receive the consequences of its approach but this eventual evaluation is only in charge on customers that perhaps will don't appreciate it.

Why don't you want to help us, you know Leter and Singxer very well. We are not responsible for any mistakes and the customer should have always the priority or not?

So I repeat... why can't you give an hand with Singxer?

 

 

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Franatic said:

Minorisuke, do we know if Hydra-Z and HiFace EVO TWO have the DSD phasing issue?

 

Thank you for all your effort assisting us here, very much appreciated by me.

Hydra - Z , after a firmware update doesn't have problem anymore. My friend has both Hydra and Singxer

Link to comment
1 hour ago, MINORISUKE said:

Since W4S replied, I am going to post only the following point at this moment.

 

The patch firmware Leter has made is just to identify the cause.  To make it as an official release under Singxer's quality measure, lots of time is needed.  This can be done only after an official request from W4S with a certain business agreement.
For owners of HiFace EVO TWO, Hydra Z, etc., W4S has to ask all of these manufacturers to make a firmware patch, respectively, if they decide they won't change their firmware.

 

 

Please Minorisuke tell us what is your relationship with Singxer because it seems that you are rapresenting Singxer and its position here.

 

Audiobyte, as many other manufacturers of interfaces or brindge, has done a dedicated firmware for their customers. It's normal and W4S indipendent if they want to sell their product also to W4S owners

 

It's not a lost of time if All W4S owners could buy singxer without any problems on I2S.

 

Instead I think it's a demonstration of strength for a new Brand like Singxer and also a veri high customer attention.

 

Seems like you won't our problem solved and I don't understand why

 

 

Link to comment
22 minutes ago, ksalno said:

 I have whatever firmware the unit shipped with when I bought it. As far as I can see on the Audiobyte website, there are no releases of new firmware available for download.

 

My friend Alberto was one of the first owner of  Hydra and he has to send the hydra to Nicolae of Audiobyte to understand the initial problem and modify the firmware.

It was very painless and it wasn't necessary all this dicussion.

Probably now you just have the right firmware.  

 

Link to comment
19 minutes ago, Franatic said:

Lenag, did the Hydra-Z have the phase shift on DSD with the DAC2 before the firmware update? Is this firmware specifically for the W4S? Does your friend even have a W4S DAC2?

We need very specific info if we are going to understand this issue. It seems from what Minorisuke says, the DAC2 is different than the PS Audio standard on the DSD phasing. Does the Hydra-Z have firmware for the DAC2 or settings for the DAC2 that are different from PS Audio for this issue? Its frustrating I can't get clarity on this.

 

My friend has a W4S Dac2 and when he bought Hydra he has to send back the Hydra to solve the problem and now seems to be solved for ever

Link to comment
55 minutes ago, Wyred 4 Sound said:

 

 Please note that our I2S implementations work together when using both sides from our company. When introducing other products such as the Singxer or Hydra, it is on them to properly work with our gear if they are making the device to work with others.

 

Dear E.J., waiting for your thoughts, I hope you come back soon.

I want to underline that your position is not completely fare in my opinion.

Let me explain what I mean; there were two problems with I2S connection between W4S Dac 2 and Singxer SU1

 

PCM noise.  In this case I have done a test with a friend of mine who owns the same dac, we have both a W4S DAC2 DsDSE.  On my dac it was necessary to sold a cap while My friend's dac can properly reproduce pcm through I2S and SU1 without problem and any cap.

The only difference between the Dacs is the firmware, yes the firmware, the one on my friend's dac is newer so I think you have corrected something on last versions.

Could you explain what the cap does, I've an idea. take in consideration tha the cap can be soldered also on your dac solving equally the problem. 

But it's also true that I can't update the firmware on my dac because W4S asked me to send it to the factory (from Italy)  and you should admit it's not possible and  quite  "bothersome" at the same time.

 

DSD inverted phase on one channel.  Here I agree with you, Singxer could adjust a firmware to solve the problem.

But also in this case you have declared W4S is using PS-audio "standard"  but perhaps this is not completely true because someone does't have any problem with PS-audio Dac.

Now  I think you could help your customers collaborating with Singxer and giving to Singxer only the necessary information to easily include your I2S implentation in its next firmware hoping that it will be provide sooner or later.

 

At the and it's true thet We had spent our money and at the same time it is also true that We can't solve these problems.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Bimmer100 said:

simply because leter made the statement. I talk with him almost daily since im a singxer dealer.. and directly have been working with him on this issue. hoping this was helpful to those planning to fix the issue on their own.

 

 

leter.PNG

 

Hi Tim, very interesting and enjoing the articles I have red on your website.

Thank you for the further information.

Do you know if Leter is working on a new version of firmware for dsd problem with W4S?

This problem remains with uncertain future. 

Link to comment

I think both Manufactures could agree a technical agreement to solve at least the I2S problem with dsd, eventually with a firmware that only Leter can provide and I hope he will provide to permit other W4S dac owners buy the Singxer SU 1 and for us to be satisfied with both the equipments.

In my opinionion it is  interest of both solve the specific problem clarifying all the misunderstandings now and for the future W4S should permit to know its I2S pin out to make future compatibility assured with third parties interfaces.

We are still waiting for a proposal of solution...

Link to comment

Karl, I don't know if the phase inversion on one channel during reproduction of dsd files through I2S can be solved by simply customizing an hdmi cable, I think it is more complicated and the new firmware is needed. Only Leter can do and provide it and I know he is working on it even if I don't know what he really will done when finished.

I understand your point of view but the customers have to be supported,  we can't do everything by ourself.

Pcm problem was solved but the solution was left in our field, now for the dsd I would want a clean solution.

Link to comment

The pcm problem is a W4S firmware issue.

 

Two Dac with different firmware version, one has the issue and one no.. the one with the newer firmware.

 

What phisically do the cap?  Something that can be done with a firmware update but with W4S update the firmware i impossible by ourself.

 

It's so clear...

Link to comment
On 28/4/2017 at 9:06 PM, Wyred 4 Sound said:

 

The other point brought up was firmware updates. Firmware is not in control of the phase issue discussed here. We have the capability of updating our USB firmware via USB port, however, this is not the input that needs to be addressed. Our product firmware requires a different method, but it also cannot alter these settings. USB firmware would need to be adjusted on the source device as it controls the pins the signal is sent on and can likely be controlled with firmware. Our side of this signal path is purely hardware, not software.

 

 

Regards,

Tony and EJ

 

They have already Answer that the firmware update is impossible via USB port, you have to live with the problem.

 

 

Link to comment
On 5/5/2017 at 8:25 PM, Wyred 4 Sound said:

 

 

This is why we're working with Singxer.

 

You're welcome. However, once the Singxer fix is implemented, we expect the fix we did for your unit to be irrelevant for future users.

 

 

 

Could W4S update us with the work progress on the severals aspects with Singxer?

Link to comment

I'd suggest to remain focused on the original topic please.

 

If you want to speak about alternative equipment you could open a dedicated topic . It is more clear for everyone and also right

 

SU-1 is a very goog equipmemt and I'm quite confident Singxer will deliver a dedicated firmware to match W4S I2S particular configuration.

You should have only patience .

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
4 hours ago, Franatic said:

 

 

Leter (Singxer) has said he will not make new firmware for W4S until they disclose completely their i2s protocol, including DSD. This is what W4S has disclosed:

 

 

If the solution seems to be near for us and all future customers why W4S does't put the end to this discussion publishing what is requested to solve the problem?

I don't think it is a  big secret and on the other side we finally could close the issue.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...