SOTM tX-USBultra impressions

[mozes]

2 minutes ago, rickca said:

I'd really like to get your feedback comparing ISO REGEN with tX-USBultra.  How are you using the other SOtM clock outputs?

So far I am using just the tX without any clock modding. I am still not sure I want to add complexity to my simple USB chain. If the USB/ethernet route proves to add a substantial improvement over USB then I will surely utilize the extra clock outputs in my tX.

[rickca]

8 minutes ago, mozes said:

So far I am using just the tX without any clock modding. I am still not sure I want to add complexity to my simple USB chain.

OK perfect.  At this point, I just want a straight USB comparison without switches or ethernet/USB streamers involved.  I've ordered an ISO REGEN and I have a micro rendu.  So I'm very interested in Sonore's next move.

[Johnseye]

Has there been any determination whether the 12v version sounds better than the 9v and whether the tX-USBultra sounds better than the ISO Regen?  I know Roy recently dropped the IR from his chain and prefers the ultra.  However he also had his IR clock modified with the sCLK which no one else has done.

[mozes]

36 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Has there been any determination whether the 12v version sounds better than the 9v and whether the tX-USBultra sounds better than the ISO Regen?  I know Roy recently dropped the IR from his chain and prefers the ultra.  However he also had his IR clock modified with the sCLK which no one else has done.

I can confirm that the tX-USBultra sounds better than the ISO Regen and it should be given the price!

However, the combo of tX and IR is superior to the tX by itself in my system. Roy uses a sCLK clocked server so maybe in the full sCLK chain, the IR is the weak link. In my system I have no sCLK clocking pre the IR so I conjecture that this has to do with why the IR is more valuable in my usb chain. 

I tried both 12V and 7V for the tX and I can’t say I heard a difference. I would worry more about the quality of the PSU than the voltage of the tX.

[doraymon]

I tried to use the second USB out of my tX-USBultra but it doesn't seem to work.

I alternated the power switch of the port on and off and it makes no difference.

I disconnected the device from USB1 out but even then the USB 2 out does not work.

Any ideas how to solve this?

Essentially I am trying to connect two DACs at the tX-USBultra at the same time.

Thanks

 

[mozes]

Try plugging your first dac to usb2. Restart your server or streamer. It should work, if not, then you may have a faulty usb2 port. Contact May from SOTM if all efforts fails 

[doraymon]

On 1/14/2018 at 10:58 PM, mozes said:

Try plugging your first dac to usb2. Restart your server or streamer. It should work, if not, then you may have a faulty usb2 port. Contact May from SOTM if all efforts fails 

Update: USB 2 works if USB 1 device is switched off and vice versa.

That is, I can play from either one of the ports at a time.

I’m in touch with May, it could be a current issue as I am feeding the tX-USBultra with a sPS-500 which also powers the sMS-200ultra at the same time.

[mozes]

52 minutes ago, doraymon said:

Update: USB 2 works if USB 1 device is switched off and vice versa.

That is, I can play from either one of the ports at a time.

I’m in touch with May, it could be a current issue as I am feeding the tX-USBultra with a sPS-500 which also powers the sMS-200ultra at the same time.

Strange, anyway all the best!

[RussL]

I’m puzzled why adding the tx- USBultra to the sMS-200 improves sound quality. Is it replacing the clock in the 200 which I agree could improve sound quality. Or is it replacing the clock in the USB stream which should not impact sound quality as the DAC is going to throw away the clock from the stream and reclock internally.

 

i guess I don’t understand where the ultra sits in the system. ?

 

Russ

[doraymon]

On 16/01/2018 at 9:22 AM, mozes said:

Strange, anyway all the best!

It turns out the problem it's with Eunhasu on the network player not being able to recognize two dacs at the same time...

[doraymon]

15 hours ago, RussL said:

I’m puzzled why adding the tx- USBultra to the sMS-200 improves sound quality. Is it replacing the clock in the 200 which I agree could improve sound quality. Or is it replacing the clock in the USB stream which should not impact sound quality as the DAC is going to throw away the clock from the stream and reclock internally.

 

i guess I don’t understand where the ultra sits in the system. ?

 

Russ

 

Yeah I have the same doubt and asking May would not help as she has to "promote" both...

We would need a third party expert opinion!

[mozes]

2 hours ago, doraymon said:

It turns out the problem it's with Eunhasu on the network player not being able to recognize two dacs at the same time...

Glad you nailed the issue

[Confused]

16 hours ago, RussL said:

I’m puzzled why adding the tx- USBultra to the sMS-200 improves sound quality. Is it replacing the clock in the 200 which I agree could improve sound quality. Or is it replacing the clock in the USB stream which should not impact sound quality as the DAC is going to throw away the clock from the stream and reclock internally.

 

i guess I don’t understand where the ultra sits in the system. ?

 

Russ

This one puzzled me also.  I asked a question about this here:

 

The responses were pretty positive in claiming that the TX-USBultra is a worthwhile addition to the sMS-200Ultra.

[doraymon]

On 18/01/2018 at 12:51 AM, Confused said:

The responses were pretty positive in claiming that the TX-USBultra is a worthwhile addition to the sMS-200Ultra.

 

Thanks for the link to the other discussion.

On a similar note, what do you guys think of the opposite effect?

Will a lower performance re-clocking device downstream the tX-USBultra deteriorate the signal?

More specifically, I have the following system:

 

Mac Mini Roon Server > AQVOX AQ-SWITCH-8 > SOtM sMS-200ultra > SOtM tX-USBultra > Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3  > Pathos Acoustics Aurium > MrSpeakers Ether C Flow / Focal Clear

 

In this system the SU-1 is needed to transform the USB signal to I2S and feed the Spring DAC and although it's a fantastic (modded) D/D converter, its clock is probably not at the level of the one in the tX-USBultra.

[mozes]

24 minutes ago, doraymon said:

Will a lower performance re-clocking device downstream the tX-USBultra deteriorate the signal?

 

Yes this is what I have found in my system when placing the Iso Regen after the tX. Then I also found the Iso Regen is the weak link between my sCLK modded server and the tX , so place your best clocking device just before your DAC.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, doraymon said:

Mac Mini Roon Server > AQVOX AQ-SWITCH-8 > SOtM sMS-200ultra > SOtM tX-USBultra > Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3  > Pathos Acoustics Aurium > MrSpeakers Ether C Flow / Focal Clear

 

In this system the SU-1 is needed to transform the USB signal to I2S and feed the Spring DAC and although it's a fantastic (modded) D/D converter, its clock is probably not at the level of the one in the tX-USBultra.

 

Don't be afraid to experiment. I understand the desire to drive the DAC via I2S, but sometimes the "known truths" about preferred DAC inputs can be upended by improved clocking upstream. I would recommend the following:

• Upgrade you SU-1 to accept an LPS input, and drive it with an LPS-1 or other high quality PSU
• Compare these 2 configurations and use your ears to decide with you like better:
  1. I2S input: SOtM tX-USBultra > Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR < I2S > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3
  2. USB input: SOtM tX-USBultra > < USB > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3
• If 1) sounds significantly better than 2) then also try:
  • 3. AES input: SOtM tX-USBultra > Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR < AES > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3
• Does 3) also sound better than 2)?
• If yes, then consider replacing the (tX-USBultra > SU-1) combo with a SOtM dX-USB HD "Ultra." SOtM sells this DDC with the sCLK-EX, and even the master reference clock input.

It's been a while, but I remember comparing the LPS-modded SU-1 vs. the dX-USB HD "Ultra" in @limniscate's system. I think we compared:

• sMS-200ultra > dX-USB HD "Ultra" > Schiit Yggy vs.
• sMS-200ultra > modded SU-1 powered by LPS-1 > Schiit Yggy

using AES, and liked the dX better. Eric - did I remember right?

 

I know the dX is an older XMOS version, but Lee (of SOtM) told us at RMAF that in his evaluation, XMOS2 added more functionality, not better SQ.

 

[doraymon]

22 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Don't be afraid to experiment. I understand the desire to drive the DAC via I2S, but sometimes the "known truths" about preferred DAC inputs can be upended by improved clocking upstream. I would recommend the following:

• Upgrade you SU-1 to accept an LPS input, and drive it with an LPS-1 or other high quality PSU
• Compare these 2 configurations and use your ears to decide with you like better:
  1. I2S input: SOtM tX-USBultra > Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR < I2S > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3
  2. USB input: SOtM tX-USBultra > < USB > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3

Thanks for the hint  and guess what, configuration 2 seems to sound better than 1.

That is, the sMS-200ultra and the tX-USBultra (both powered by an sPS-500) feeding directly into the Spring's USB seems to sound much more detailed than through the SU-1. Also, the bass sounds tighter but a bit dryer than solution 1.

 

Regarding the SU-1 PS upgrade with an LPS-1 I think I will not get any improvements over my actual SU-1 as this is the KTE - DDR upgraded version. 

I won't go into too many details but I trust my SU-1 is almost as good as the SU-1 can get.

 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, doraymon said:

Thanks for the hint  and guess what, configuration 2 seems to sound better than 1.

That is, the sMS-200ultra and the tX-USBultra (both powered by an sPS-500) feeding directly into the Spring's USB seems to sound much more detailed than through the SU-1. Also, the bass sounds tighter but a bit dryer than solution 1.

 

That's great! It reinforces my points about revisiting "known truths."

 

1 hour ago, doraymon said:

Regarding the SU-1 PS upgrade with an LPS-1 I think I will not get any improvements over my actual SU-1 as this is the KTE - DDR upgraded version. 

I won't go into too many details but I trust my SU-1 is almost as good as the SU-1 can get.

 

Ah - I don't really follow the details of the SU-1 evolution. Sounds like you can run a simpler chain, and perhaps recoup some costs by selling unneeded gear!

[elan120]

On 1/19/2018 at 6:50 AM, doraymon said:

On a similar note, what do you guys think of the opposite effect?

Will a lower performance re-clocking device downstream the tX-USBultra deteriorate the signal?

More specifically, I have the following system:

 

Mac Mini Roon Server > AQVOX AQ-SWITCH-8 > SOtM sMS-200ultra > SOtM tX-USBultra > Singxer KTE SU-1 DDR > Holo Audio KTE Spring DAC L3  > Pathos Acoustics Aurium > MrSpeakers Ether C Flow / Focal Clear

 

In this system the SU-1 is needed to transform the USB signal to I2S and feed the Spring DAC and although it's a fantastic (modded) D/D converter, its clock is probably not at the level of the one in the tX-USBultra.

 

On 1/20/2018 at 8:17 AM, doraymon said:

Thanks for the hint  and guess what, configuration 2 seems to sound better than 1.

That is, the sMS-200ultra and the tX-USBultra (both powered by an sPS-500) feeding directly into the Spring's USB seems to sound much more detailed than through the SU-1. Also, the bass sounds tighter but a bit dryer than solution 1.

 

Regarding the SU-1 PS upgrade with an LPS-1 I think I will not get any improvements over my actual SU-1 as this is the KTE - DDR upgraded version. 

I won't go into too many details but I trust my SU-1 is almost as good as the SU-1 can get.

 

I am on a path that could reveal part of your question regarding whether SU-1 internal clock could deteriorate the signal.  My plan is to add SOtM txUSBexp (clocked by sCLK-EX) and txUSBUltra in front of SU-1, and once it is settled down, I will then add sCLK-EX clocked SU-1 to compare with non-sCLK-EX clocked SU-1.  Hopefully, sCLK-EX clocked SU-1 will have a clear step up in SQ, which will somewhat answer your curiosity.

 

On the other hand, I just briefly look at what KTE DDR upgrade is offering, and it is clear that there is room for additional improvements if you still want to pull from your SU-1.  Overall, KTE DDR upgrade does offer good improvement over stock SU-1, but it replace only 1 of the 5 voltage regulators on the main board that feeds the Xilinx FPGA and few other devices.  If you replace (upgrade) the other 4 voltage regulators feeding XMOS, USB input oscillator (24.000MHz), and both Crystek CCHD575 sampling oscillators (22.5792/24.576MHz) will further improve overall SQ.

 

As a side note, the 4 voltage regulators mentioned earlier include one switch mode DC-DC voltage regulator will receive good benefit by using linear regulator instead.

 

This is my $2.5C...hope they are somewhat helpful...

[doraymon]

On 23/01/2018 at 8:19 AM, elan120 said:

 

I am on a path that could reveal part of your question regarding whether SU-1 internal clock could deteriorate the signal.  My plan is to add SOtM txUSBexp (clocked by sCLK-EX) and txUSBUltra in front of SU-1, and once it is settled down, I will then add sCLK-EX clocked SU-1 to compare with non-sCLK-EX clocked SU-1.  Hopefully, sCLK-EX clocked SU-1 will have a clear step up in SQ, which will somewhat answer your curiosity.

 

On the other hand, I just briefly look at what KTE DDR upgrade is offering, and it is clear that there is room for additional improvements if you still want to pull from your SU-1.  Overall, KTE DDR upgrade does offer good improvement over stock SU-1, but it replace only 1 of the 5 voltage regulators on the main board that feeds the Xilinx FPGA and few other devices.  If you replace (upgrade) the other 4 voltage regulators feeding XMOS, USB input oscillator (24.000MHz), and both Crystek CCHD575 sampling oscillators (22.5792/24.576MHz) will further improve overall SQ.

 

As a side note, the 4 voltage regulators mentioned earlier include one switch mode DC-DC voltage regulator will receive good benefit by using linear regulator instead.

 

This is my $2.5C...hope they are somewhat helpful...

Thanks, it is useful! Please keep us posted!

[doraymon]

In the meantime, can anyone suggest some reading on USB to I2S conversion?

I am still puzzled as to how my Spring DAC is transforming the USB input to I2S, and why this passage seems to be so harmful to the resulting sound quality. 

[mozes]

I have no experience with I2S. I have been using USB and very content with the results. 

[Jay Tee]

Given the large number of Auralic Aries users on here, has no one tried this device from the USB output of an Aries, compared with the more established  Regen or iso Regen?

[mozes]

Has anyone found that there is a difference in SQ when feeding the tX-USBultra 9V vs. 6V or 7V?

[str-1]

On 17/02/2018 at 8:06 PM, mozes said:

Has anyone found that there is a difference in SQ when feeding the tX-USBultra 9V vs. 6V or 7V?

I would also welcome any feedback on this, and on whether there are any further improvements to be had from the 12V model.  If the current bad weather in the UK doesn’t delay production and shipping of this, I am expecting my Paul Hynes SR4 to arrive sometime next week, which can supply up to 2A continuous at 5V, 7V, 9V and 12V.  I plan to order a tx-USBultra when that arrives, but not sure whether to order the 6.5V-8.5V/9V model or the 12V.