Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[Jud]

Has every single person on this thread complaining about interviews or Jarek also taken the time to (1) post his/her information to the spreadsheet, and (2) spread the word in other venues?  I don't know how productive the latter will ultimately be, but surely at least as much as, and perhaps more so than, the years(!) of complaints have proved to be.

[mansr]

11 hours ago, Jud said:

As both Blake and I mentioned, the amounts you contributed (not everyone contributed the same amounts for the same stuff, as the spreadsheet shows) may very well be available from IGG.  We want the credibility of the information in the sheet to be as high as possible, so we're not doing estimates.  If it isn't something you want to pursue, we can't do it for you - not saying this to be argumentative, it's just a fact.

The amount paid should be available on one's credit card statement.

[Jud]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

The amount paid should be available on one's credit card statement.

 

Yes, there as well.  Just depends whether it's easier for people to access IGG records, or credit card statements that are 4 or 5 years old by now.

[Samuel T Cogley]

5 hours ago, LHCommSquad said:

However, if anyone has alternate suggestions for an interviewer who has in-depth knowledge of LH Labs/IGG/crowdfunding/LH Labs + IGG debacle, let me know. 

 

Have you considered Ronald "Scott" Owens?  He's close by and I'm sure he'd be happy to ask the tough questions.

[EdmontonCanuck]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

 

Yes, there as well.  Just depends whether it's easier for people to access IGG records, or credit card statements that are 4 or 5 years old by now.

 

That's the nice thing about Paypal.....you can download your entire payment history (going back to 2012 I think) as a CSV file and open it up in a spreadsheet and search/sort on Payee and get your totals quite easily.

[Blake]

4 hours ago, Jud said:

Has every single person on this thread complaining about interviews or Jarek also taken the time to (1) post his/her information to the spreadsheet, and (2) spread the word in other venues?  I don't know how productive the latter will ultimately be, but surely at least as much as, and perhaps more so than, the years(!) of complaints have proved to be.

 

Yes, please, we need to spread the word on other audio forums.  I started a thread on SBAF, and I also started one on the What's Best Forum:

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lh-labs-never-received-your-crowd-funded-product.27473/

 

I know we have members that participate in other audio sites.  So far, we have this thread, SBAF and What's Best.  Jud checked with HeadFi but they don't want a thread on this topic (although there is discussion on the HeadFi thread about the Wave, so word is out).

 

 Do we have any volunteers for other sites?  

 

If you start a thread on another forum, please post here and let us know.  

 

P.S. Thanks to all who have posted to the spreadsheet, we really have some momentum now!

 

 

 

[marflao]

The Geman sites I already mentioned earlier:

- Open-end-music 

- HiFi-Forum

 

Both very calm...

[Superdad]

11 hours ago, marflao said:

If I'm not mistaken it started with the first GO campaign on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gavn8r/geek-a-new-usb-awesomifier-for-headphones

 

Then there was another GO campaign on IGG:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-out-2-the-world-s-most-powerful-compact-amp-headphones/x/5244581#/

 

The $3 million Geek Pulse campaign was their first on Indiegogo--right after the first GeekOut on Kickstarter:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-pulse-dac-high-rez-desktop-dac-system#/

 

It is very easy to find and look at all the crowd-fleecing campaigns started by a given member at Indiegogo.  Here is the link to all the LH Labs campaigns: https://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/798192/campaigns

[The Computer Audiophile]

Here's a link to the California AG crowdfunding site including links to report frauds and scams.

 

https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/crowdfunding

[kelvinwsy]

9 hours ago, EdmontonCanuck said:

 

That's the nice thing about Paypal.....you can download your entire payment history (going back to 2012 I think) as a CSV file and open it up in a spreadsheet and search/sort on Payee and get your totals quite easily.

Exactly what I did!

Let's group all the data on payments msfe to Larry and his LH Labs Crooked Ops and Lodge our complaint to the CA AG's office or other relevant authorities

 

[zerodeefex]

On 2/13/2019 at 3:18 PM, LHCommSquad said:

 

Of course. The SBAF community did absolutely NO researching into literally anything revolving around the current address (much like other things they choose not to research when it comes to LH Labs or Light Harmonic). Instead, they focused on name-calling and conspiracy theories.

 

They specifically chose and discussed the old address (Roseville), absolutely no one bothered to check or correct the address, even people on this forum who frequent that forum, and we had even DISCUSSED on this very thread the exact new address. You yourself even posted that exact address and I told everyone to go over there and check. The new address was ALSO posted on Facebook and ALSO directly on our website.

 

 

One member on SBAF makes a mistake and you choose to disparage the place that I run with a few close friends because we believe that consumers should be informed and, as a community, we need to continue to explore what we hear and why? Of course you're complaining here rather than on SBAF because both your work and personal accounts were banned from our community for playing the victim while being an asshole, making misogynistic comments and generally being a sad sack of garbage.

 

As a former board member (no, I took no money) of LH I can say that, as much as people get wrong, the fact still stands that THOUSANDS of people were promised products in exchange for funding, thousands are still waiting half a decade later, and there have been dodgy relationships with other manufacturers including contentious experiences with folks like Campfire Audio who I've only had very positive experiences with. Hell, I made that introduction and I find myself regretting it many years later due to the sheer amount of stress it's caused Ken and Caleb. Former LH employees were underpaid and treated poorly. Some were excellent, but many were unqualified to work anywhere in audio or at a hardware company. Everyone good has left and those who I know personally have had a great weight lifted from their shoulders once they got over the PTSD. Any advice on how to manage a business (supply chain, product assortment, ecommerce, software development, etc) was ignored. 

 

As you're a contractor that is on the payroll to do damage control, I would recommend everyone ignore anything you say as PR. 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, zerodeefex said:

 

 

One member on SBAF makes a mistake and you choose to disparage the place that I run with a few close friends because we believe that consumers should be informed and, as a community, we need to continue to explore what we hear and why? Of course you're complaining here rather than on SBAF because both your work and personal accounts were banned from our community for playing the victim while being an asshole, making misogynistic comments and generally being a sad sack of garbage.

 

As a former board member (no, I took no money) of LH I can say that, as much as people get wrong, the fact still stands that THOUSANDS of people were promised products in exchange for funding, thousands are still waiting half a decade later, and there have been dodgy relationships with other manufacturers including contentious experiences with folks like Campfire Audio who I've only had very positive experiences with. Hell, I made that introduction and I find myself regretting it many years later due to the sheer amount of stress it's caused Ken and Caleb. Former LH employees were underpaid and treated poorly. Some were excellent, but many were unqualified to work anywhere in audio or at a hardware company. Everyone good has left and those who I know personally have had a great weight lifted from their shoulders once they got over the PTSD. Any advice on how to manage a business (supply chain, product assortment, ecommerce, software development, etc) was ignored. 

 

As you're a contractor that is on the payroll to do damage control, I would recommend everyone ignore anything you say as PR. 

 

That's the reason he's on my ignore list (if you want to spare yourself aggravation, you can do the same). There's a combination of the opportune "mistakes were made" to demonstrate sincerity, badinage to demonstrate friendliness, and victim-blaming whenever the opportunity presents itself, all in service, as you said, of damage control on behalf of Larry Ho/LHL.  

 

5 years down the road when any desire or need for these mythical products is long past, none of his talk gets us the least bit closer to the only thing that would actually help, partial refunds.

[stuck limo]

3 hours ago, zerodeefex said:

 

 

One member on SBAF makes a mistake and you choose to disparage the place that I run with a few close friends because we believe that consumers should be informed and, as a community, we need to continue to explore what we hear and why? Of course you're complaining here rather than on SBAF because both your work and personal accounts were banned from our community for playing the victim while being an asshole, making misogynistic comments and generally being a sad sack of garbage.

 

 

1. I didn't badmouth SBAF due to "you believing that consumers should be informed and, as a community, we need to continue to explore what we hear and why?" I was a member of SBAF loooooong before I was EVER associated with LH Labs. Your reason as to my reason is wrong (and I previously stated it here and it was ignored by you)

2. I was never an asshole to anyone over there, and there were 3 contradicting reasons given to 2 different people as to why my accounts were banned. I could go in-depth but it's really not worth it. In fact, the guy who "kick-started" my ban actually APOLOGIZED to me over it and regretted it getting that far. This is the second time you've personally attacked me out of nowhere in public. At no point have I ever publicly trashed you personally. 

3. SBAF is known as a joke, a hive-mind, and a cult, and a Campfire Audio shill place amongst the high-end audiophiles I personally know. The forum is discussed quite a bit in depth in our inner circles. (note: this is not to say CA is bad at all, CA is generally highly regarded by myself and others) There is virtually zero moderation, members are allowed to openly attack other members, and calls to violence are ignored, amongst many many other problems in the discussions. You try to be an audiophile 4 Chan, except you're not as clever. [you're welcome to use that as your tagline] Your close friends are bad company, as is your community. I honestly used to like SBAF a LOT more than Head-Fi until I actually REALLY began to understand the culture at SBAF (after LH Labs). 

4. The irony is: if I hadn't been banned, I would have contacted the member who drove (to the wrong address) BEFORE he had driven and given him the RIGHT address so he didn't waste a trip (because I honestly didn't care if he drove out to the new office, as I stated here). Unfortunately, no one bothered to check the address until AFTER the mistake.  

5. Anything else you posted about LH Labs I won't deny, as you would know better than I would, and we all appreciate you letting us know the story. I certainly hold no ill will towards you sharing your LH Labs experience and I've heard similar stories from other employees. 

6. Anything else I have to say I'll PM it, unless you decide to drag out personal things into the public again. 

[Lyer25]

1 hour ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

2. I was never an asshole to anyone over there, and there were 3 contradicting reasons given to 2 different people as to why my accounts were banned. I could go in-depth but it's really not worth it. In fact, the guy who "kick-started" my ban actually APOLOGIZED to me over it and regretted it getting that far. This is the second time you've personally attacked me out of nowhere in public. At no point have I ever publicly trashed you personally. 

Against my better judgement, making an account here to address a couple points. Begging pardon for the soapbox scaling, but I don't want anyone to misunderstand my apology.

 

I did apologise for what happened because you wouldn't have had an opportunity to double down on untenable remarks had I not dragged it out. I said as much via PM: I stand by the fact that I don't agree with the way you spoke of women and how you made generalisations about people based on their country of origin. I'll own up to being a snowflake because I've had to deal so much (expletive) because of my appearance and the fact that I don't necessarily speak English with a local accent that I can't really respond objectively, but the thread happened to touch upon some things I'd rather have let lie. I tried to present a calm front in my responses and messages, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't angry while typing through some of it. Still, I don't begrudge anyone their worldviews because sometimes people happen into unfortunate beliefs through circumstances beyond their control. That doesn't mean people can't improve themselves or that they should be beyond recognising fault where fault exists.

 

I'll let this thread speak for itself:

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/the-taco-bell-gigolo.6796/page-2#post-223192

 

There are quite a few people on SBAF and other sites that make casual remarks that irk the hell out of me, mods and admins included. Sue me, I've strong SJW tendencies. No one's perfect and just as in real life I'm willing to overlook my friends' casual idiocies if I can establish some common ground with them and have a civil conversation, be it on the same topic or other matters. I asked to have your ban undone because I think people deserve to learn from their shortcomings and carry on with their lives, but I was told that the misogynistic remarks weren't so much the reason for the ban as was matters related to LHL, which I thought well beyond my place to appeal.

 

 

1 hour ago, LHCommSquad said:

3. SBAF is known as a joke, a hive-mind, and a cult, and a Campfire Audio shill place amongst the high-end audiophiles I personally know. The forum is discussed quite a bit in depth in our inner circles. (note: this is not to say CA is bad at all, CA is generally highly regarded by myself and others) There is virtually zero moderation, members are allowed to openly attack other members, and calls to violence are ignored, amongst many many other problems in the discussions. You try to be an audiophile 4 Chan, except you're not as clever. [you're welcome to use that as your tagline] Your close friends are bad company, as is your community. I honestly used to like SBAF a LOT more than Head-Fi until I actually REALLY began to understand the culture at SBAF (after LH Labs). 

 

I dunno, CA makes some really nice IEMs that I might be tempted to sell my desktop gear for if I didn't hate how most IEMs fit (I have to fiddle a lot to make the Andros sit well— small ears); Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah+Corpus Christi Carol on AK Jr (I think)>Andromeda with SpinFits actually made me cry during a mini meet demo, no other IEMs have managed that so far. Is it shilling if it's worth the adoration?

 

I will agree that there's a lot of FotMing over on SBAF and that I don't necessarily agree with everything said on there by respected members, but I also own up to having less experience with audio gear and am more at risk of talking out of the wrong end as a result; I hold my tongue unless it's about something I'm reasonably familiar with to keep the embarrassment to a minimum. That said there is still a self correction process of sorts, and if anything it engages faster than in most other online communities I've had the pleasure of joining.

 

The calls to violence are unwarranted and some people get preferential treatment allowing them to act with impunity, yup. I don't agree with it and would rather that sort of thing simply didn't happen, but there's enough good people and enlightening content there to offset all that. I think it's a good community— not because of that but in spite of it.

 

That's not taking into consideration the fact that everyone simply has different preferences, by the by, which adds a whole 'nother dimension to reading and interpreting impressions.

 

P.S.

Yes it's a cult. You have to pay a daily tithe to post without getting poop thrown at you (/s).

[noshortcuts]

Please join the effort to document all money sent to LHL on the Indiegogo platform for products that remain undelivered . The assembled data can be forwarded with a complaint to the California State Attorney's Office for legal action.

 

Bump for the cause:

-----------

marflao said:

alright...here we go.

 

Sheet has been created: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vE7_LByDDY6w8J-E-l4njfkvXcggTasrG90z11swJww/edit?usp=sharing

 

In case you want to be part of this sheet pls send me an email to defraudedbylhl at gmail dot com with the following  details:

- username (as mentioned.. it is hidden)

- "your" forum where you use the username

- from which continent you are

- which LHL device(s) you have backed and

- how much you paid for each backed device.

 

Cheers,

M.

[bernardperu]

On 2/8/2019 at 10:30 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Done. 

 

Thanks a lot. Perhaps I forgot to put the "Y" in "Deliver(Y)" haha. Well, English is my second language after all.

 

I am really proud of this forum. It has gained some momentum thanks to the freedom of speech moderators have allowed. I believe this forum has allowed us to see the LH Labs IGG incident, Larry Ho, and to some extent Jarek, for what they really are.

 

It was also my intention to single out Larry Ho (and those who willingly associate to him) as the sole guilty party in this whole matter. Above all else, we should continue to trust our fellow member of our dear audio community. For instance, if a reputable audio business has a new Indiegogo campaign and I like what they offer, I will invest. I refuse to allow Larry Ho and Jarek to drag me to a point where I give up my sense of trust. 

[bernardperu]

10 minutes ago, noshortcuts said:

Please join the effort to document all money sent to LHL on the Indiegogo platform for products that remain undelivered . The assembled data can be forwarded with a complaint to the California State Attorney's Office for legal action.

 

Bump for the cause

 

 

I already sent my 8K worth info to the good Markus.

 

If anyone has some influence on Head-Fi, please contact their moderators/owners so they can see what Audiophile Style is doing for us. As of now, Head-Fi has not allowed the 100s (or over 1000? - Jarek, can you clarify how many of us are out there?-) of LH Labs funders to unite and empower. 

 

I believe all of us want to see the light at the end of this fiasco, and find justice (refunds; exposure in English and Chinese of the real Larry Ho; and even some prison time for him -many of us will not agree on this final point and that's ok). 

 

 

 

[stuck limo]

4 minutes ago, bernardperu said:

As of now, Head-Fi has not allowed the 100s (or over 1000? - Jarek, can you clarify how many of us are out there?-) 

 

 

But why? As our good friend Ravi says: 

5 hours ago, zerodeefex said:

As you're a contractor that is on the payroll to do damage control, I would recommend everyone ignore anything you say as PR. 

 

 

[bernardperu]

Jarek, would you be so kind as to share with us the total numbers of backers who have not received their products yet?

 

It matters to a lot of us to know this number, and we will deeply appreciate your eagerness to help us with some real answers to the tougher questions. This is one of the tougher questions.

 

I believing you can contain many of the angrier backers by showing us that you can be an honest person. Truth is the first step towards reconciliation. 

[Beefalo]

8 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

But why? As our good friend Ravi says: 

 

 

Thank you Jarek. You have confirmed my earlier contention that you are nothing but a run-of-the-mill internet troll. Save your 'game' for the white girl from Ohio.

[Jud]

@Lyer25, I find it's often those most reluctant to speak who have the most enlightening things to say, and so it has turned out with your first post.  Thanks!

[Jud]

27 minutes ago, bernardperu said:

 

I already sent my 8K worth info to the good Markus.

 

If anyone has some influence on Head-Fi, please contact their moderators/owners so they can see what Audiophile Style is doing for us. As of now, Head-Fi has not allowed the 100s (or over 1000? - Jarek, can you clarify how many of us are out there?-) of LH Labs funders to unite and empower. 

 

I believe all of us want to see the light at the end of this fiasco, and find justice (refunds; exposure in English and Chinese of the real Larry Ho; and even some prison time for him -many of us will not agree on this final point and that's ok). 

 

What they have done is allowed Markus to ask in a prominent LHL thread for people to provide their information, and you'll note some HF people have done so.  I gave it a bump today.

[Jud]

I've noted some people from Asia have info on the spreadsheet.  Anyone able to contact Asian (particularly Chinese or Taiwanese) audio forums or publications and ask if they'll allow a note explaining the list and providing a link?

[Lyer25]

19 minutes ago, Jud said:

@Lyer25, I find it's often those most reluctant to speak who have the most enlightening things to say, and so it has turned out with your first post.  Thanks!

Forgot to hit send, whoops. Bad habit.

 

Anyway, original message was that I wanted to say thanks, but also I really wish I had more to say about gear than drama nowadays, haha. I don't think I'll be here often, but thanks for lending an ear. 

[bernardperu]

7 minutes ago, Jud said:

I've noted some people from Asia have info on the spreadsheet.  Anyone able to contact Asian (particularly Chinese or Taiwanese) audio forums or publications and ask if they'll allow a note explaining the list and providing a link?

 

Larry Ho has moved his business to China, so if we want his attention, we need him exposed in that area of the world.

 

By "exposure" I mean online content that will rank high on Google, so anyone who googles Larry Ho and his business will find info on what he did to us on Indiegogo. 

 

By the way, I own a mid size internet-based business and I personally run the marketing department.

 

So this is one example of what could be published in Chinese:

 

Tile of Thread: "Larry Ho, LH Labs and the 6-Million Dollar Audio Fiasco."

 

Content: 

 

"Larry Ho, owner of LH Labs, has not delivered on his promises. He raised over USD$6 Million in Indiegogo and has 1000s of buyers very angry because they have not received what they paid for. 

 

Beware buyers of the his very expensive IEMs, such as the Stellas, as Larry Ho is trying to pull off what he did in California right here in China: Build very expensive products, gain market credibility, and rip us off.

 

You will find the countless angry clients of LH in these threads in English:

 

-Here you list as many threads as you can. I would include these -

 

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/light-harmonic-geek-wave.713829/page-311#post-14452599

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/geek-pulse-geek-desktop-dac-amp-by-light-harmonics.687851/page-892

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lh-labs-gorgeous-vi-dac-tube-ss-outputs.754102/page-68

 

"

 

And there you go! You start a topic that will ignite curiosity and will rank high on Google or the Chinese equivalent.