Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[AgentXXL]

I've only just come across this forum but will do my best to add my information to the complaint being filed against LH Labs. I'm owed over $5K US worth of gear, including the Pulse DAC Infinity that started all the hype. The only items I've received from LH Labs are the now-useless LPS4 power supply, the Pulse Blue, a Pulse Geek Infinity and an assortment of cables.

 

I've been in failing health for the last 2.5 years so I've not followed up often on the whole LH Labs fiasco. Just thinking about the funds I gave them has me furious now, especially since I'm on disability and don't have the money to buy alternates to what I ordered.

 

Larry Ho should be ashamed of himself for taking advantage of the community as he has. It may not be entirely his fault, but as he's the primary at Light Harmonic and LH Labs, he's the one who's still wasting our hard-earned contributions on his own lifestyle.

 

FYI - I don't know if LH still makes a 3rd party audio system for Tesla owners, but I did warn Tesla owners (I'm not one) of the potential for LH to scam them as well.

 

I'll now go collect my info on my contributions and try to add it to the complaint.

 

[AgentXXL]

1 hour ago, r3dsh1ft said:

New to the forum. How do I sign up for the complaint?

Just in case no-one has sent you the details via PM, send your request to be added to the [email protected] email address. Markus or Mike should be in touch to send you the required info and consent.

[AgentXXL]

1 hour ago, Lobbster said:

I'll have to take a closer look, it seemed it was for those who didn't get their Pulse. 

I received emails from both the Pulse DAC and the Analog HPA campaigns offering this trade-in. I don't want or need new IEMs when I don't have the Wave, Source or Pulse DAC to use them with. And my over $6K US in owed gear means even if I went for the Stella, I'd still be owed over $5K.

 

As someone who's now on disability, I can't afford to purchase new amps/players like I thought I was when working and able to pay for perks during the campaigns. I wish Larry would just straight out offer refunds. At least then I could use some of the money to buy current products from respected manufacturers.

 

Also note that they list the Stella's at $1299 US according to the offer sent to those eligible. But on the website, even with international shipping they list for $1079 US. So they're even trying to cheat us out of an additional $220. EDIT: Just re-read the offer and saw that we get them for 30% off MSRP, but they're still quoting a MSRP that's higher than what's listed on the website. This is beyond ridiculous and I hope Larry gets all the bad karma he deserves.

 

[AgentXXL]

17 minutes ago, stuck limo said:

 

I can tell you that exchange program has been in the works long before the complaint. LH never had stock to exchange with before. This is another conspiracy theory, just like the one that said I was only brought on for compliance with the IGG changes (I was brought on before the changes).

 

No one has ever proven that IGG funds were used for LH products. Its commonly stated but always with zero evidence (very conveniently). LH L has always denied the accusations and based on my discussions with the LH L staff, I tend to believe all the IGG funds went directly towards LH L staff, development and overhead costs, exactly as has been described to me. 

Just go away Jarek. You lied to me outright when we chatted via phone about my Pulse DAC being delivered within a week.... that was over 2 years ago. We can't trust anything you say. I still have to wonder how you can be so supportive of a company that's treated so many of us as nothing but a source of product development funds. And the fact that Light Harmonic has a version of the Source listed on their site means our donations MOST DEFINITELY have aided in development of products for the parent division. And yes, I'm still owed a Source as well as many other undelivered items.

[AgentXXL]

3 minutes ago, stuck limo said:

 

The information I gave you was based on the information I had directly from the office. I did not lie to you, nor would I have had any reason to lie to you, nor have I lied to any customers.  But I suppose its easier to blame me and lash out at me from desperation and frustration than it is to blame the people behind the origin of the information, especially when they aren't publicly around to blame.

 

Yes, I'll continue to blame you as long you want to keep being their public face. It still dumbfounds me how you can back a company that stole millions of dollars from many of us via Indiegogo's campaigns. Your comments do nothing but frustrate us further and show that your character is weak. Just go away....

 

[AgentXXL]

So anyone else have any contact with LH/Jarek lately, other than another useless update on the Wave progress via Indiegogo?

 

I noted that my open tickets with LH were all closed today, with no resolution to any of them. But Jarek also reached out to me today via txt messages to my phone. I had responded to the latest Wave update with the comment that the only acceptable solution to me was a refund of my $6K+ in contributions. Especially true now that I've been forced into early retirement and am on disability income.

 

What they offered was a free pair of Mera IEMs.... assuming that I can afford to buy a current player or something to use with my current phone/computer. While I appreciate trying to answer my needs now that I'm on a lower income, it does nothing to help me feel better about the $6K+ worth of product I'm owed.

 

And while I could probably use a free pair of Mera's or other IEMs, I'm not willing to accept any offers that might affect my continuance in the complaint filed with the California AG office. So Jarek/stuck limo, for now my answer is no. An IEM that LH values at over $300US is not going to cut it.

 

If Larry was so pissed off at my bad-mouthing of his products and company, he could at least have the courage to approach me himself.

 

 

 

[AgentXXL]

1 minute ago, stuck limo said:

 

1. He was pissed because you called me a liar publicly, and I have the text message and screenshot to prove it. It had zero to do with you badmouthing him/the company/the products. 

2. You originally stated that I told you the Pulse would be shipping out that week. I have gone through every message I had with you that I can find (email, phone, etc.) and cannot find anywhere where I promised you that. If you have proof of me telling you that, show the receipts. 

3. After fighting for you behind the scenes and reaching out to you in good faith, even after you (falsely) called me a liar, you dragged this out in public, where it wasn't needed or necessary. I guess it was a move.  

 

Hope you're happy with the results. 

 

 

Both you and Larry have lied again and again, and not just to me. If you purport that your comments are only based on the info given to you by Larry, then you're the most gullible company shill ever. No one can trust anything you say and many of us have no idea why you continue to back someone who has literally stolen funds from many of us.

 

As for the discussion over shipping, I don't have it in writing but we did discuss via voice. I do have some of the conversation from our text messages in which you say you'll do your best to get me bumped to the 'front of the queue', which again was a failed statement or outright lie.

 

As for me posting this in public, I'm more than happy to share with the rest of the community that have also been cheated by Larry and now you. If you didn't want me to continue public shaming of your behavior, you shouldn't give me and others the impetus to do so.

 

 

[AgentXXL]

2 minutes ago, stuck limo said:

 

FYI, this is a mistaken memory. We have never spoken via phone or voice chat or anything else. I am looking at my entire call history right now (dating back from 2017 to today) with every customer I've ever interacted with. You are not in that list. We have only ever interacted via email or text message. 

 

It may not be clear in your memory but it's fairly clear in mine. I don't have my voice call history from that far back, only kept actual textual conversations but we did speak via voice. It's not worth my effort to prove you and I talked, or I'd look through my old phone bills and call history. You'd still just be able to say that you don't remember that.

 

Regardless, if you're upset about me telling others that you're trying to 'buy off' my complaint with a purported $300 set of IEMs, then you deserve all the grief it's giving you. If you were a forthright individual who actually cared about others in our audiophile community, you wouldn't be backing Larry as you continue to do.

 

[AgentXXL]

48 minutes ago, stuck limo said:

 

Google Voice DOES keep that history, and it's not there. 

At no point was this intended to "buy off" a complaint, nor was it mentioned, nor was it ever intended, nor was it ever thought about. Nor was it going to substitute for your Pulse unit. It was simply an effort to make things more right for you than they previously were, for a variety of reasons, none of which actually had to do with you badmouthing LH. 

Unfortunately, it appears that was a wasted effort. (and YES, I did ask LH to send a player as a special favor [exclusively for you] for the situation, and yes, that request was rejected, because, as was rightly forecasted, you would announce it to the public and cause more problems for LH)

 

Here's the chat, raw and unedited, to be "forthright".

 

 

 

Regardless of Google Voice's history, I maintain that we talked via voice. If you aren't man enough to admit that, that's your choice. And quit making yourself out as the victim. If you hadn't chosen to ally with LH on this campaign of fraud, your life and the lives of all those you've hindered would be much simpler.

 

And yes, I do want everything that LH does made public. For the same reason that I badmouth any of their products whenever I get the chance. More publicity about companies that mistreat their customers like this and we can hopefully avoid repeat mistakes in the future.

 

LH (meaning both Larry Ho and Light Harmonic/LH Labs) has destroyed my trust in all crowd-funded projects, like it has for many others. There's little chance I'll ever gamble on a crowd-funded product again, and I warn others about it all the time.

 

If you were at all understanding of the pain and confusion that LH has caused, then you wouldn't have chosen to be their lackey.  By continuing to perpetrate their fraud, it's my hope that you too are now partially liable should the California AG take punitive action.

 

[AgentXXL]

17 hours ago, Cecil said:

However, that edit has now also been deleted by the administrator as again it breeches the guidelines.

 

My message was meant to be a plea to Jarek and Larry, but by what has occurred I am now a little concerned that it appears Larry and Jarek may be being afforded some sort of protection, which if true, I find astounding given what has happened to many of those who read and contribute to this and other online forums. I truly hope this is not the case.

 

 

I also wonder what the admins at Head-fi think they're accomplishing? If they truly want everyone in the industry to rely on them as a main source of info, they need to allow negative feedback. Protecting LH Labs, Light Harmonic, Larry and Jarek only serves as a detriment to the community.

 

That said, I stopped reading Head-fi (and posting there) over two years ago. Mainly because I was disgusted with them backing up some disreputable companies and individuals. When an enthusiast site like this caters to shucksters and scam artists, the value of their information diminishes considerably.

[AgentXXL]

So I see that LH is now offering the same exchange program for the Wave - either Stella or Mera IEMs at a '30% discount' over the SRP on their website. As I'm still owed over $6K US in product, I'm considering taking them up on the offer this time. I passed on the Pulse DAC exchange offer as I just didn't need another set of IEMs at the time, nor could I use them without 1st getting a new DAC/Amp.

 

Since then my go-to Shure SE846 have begun to show some connection issues that are really the MMCX connectors and not the cabling itself. I see that the Stella and Mera also use MMCX so that bothers me a little. But more importantly, are they worth the $900 US?

 

Can anyone speak to how they compare to my SE846 IEMs (using the bass insert)? I've read a few reviews and while they seem to be acceptable, I'm just not that enthusiastic about using a LH product given all the trouble we've had with the company. But I guess getting something for my money is better than nothing.

 

I have been able to acquire a Fiio BTR5 that I'm fairly happy with when my Shure IEMS have a stable connection. So I have a unit with the dual ES9218 DACs that were supposed to come with the Pulse/Wave. At a whopping $150 CAD. Man, were we ever getting gouged for this stuff.

 

Anyone else considering this offer or any comments from those that took part in the Pulse exchange program?

[AgentXXL]

On 10/31/2020 at 4:34 AM, jjraffin said:

I'm owed a Wave, Vi, and Source ... and I barely remember if anything else. So, does it matter to what specification the Wave was?

 

And a copy of the link, please.

 

The exchange program for Wave was posted to the Indiegogo updates section for the LH Wave campaign on Oct. 30th. I also received it via email. Essentially if you contributed more than $900 US you can get the Stella, or more than $210 for the Mera.

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-wave-a-no-compromise-portable-music-player/x/5746753?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bck-10302020update&utm_term=#/updates/all

[AgentXXL]

6 hours ago, breadman said:

If you follow the link to their (Light Harmonic) website and click the link to purchase on amazon, they are on sale for $495 which is a lot less than $1299. So it looks like they need to reduce them by 62% to try and sell them, so giving them away seems like a good option  

 

That's not LH themselves selling them on Amazon, unless it's a shell company for Larry. ATSQ Technology (based in Australia) is listed as run by Andy Quah. Likely suspect he's another contributor who got a pair on the previous offer and decided to list them for sale rather than keep them. Based on the reviews I've read, I'm not likely to find the Stella (and certainly not the Mera) worth it. If they want to offer me a pair of Oscars at a real discount, then maybe we'll see.

[AgentXXL]

I'm OK with it still using ESS Sabre DACs. In the past I've found that I usually preferred the sound signature of the ESS over ones from AK. That's likely moot these days as there has been newer revisions of DACs from both and the general consensus is that the newer revisions are much more similar in their sound signature. Certainly there's users out there who claim they can still hear the difference. As my ears have aged along with the rest of me, I'm noticing some drop-off in my ability to determine the differences.

 

I'm actually back in the market for another Bluetooth DAC/amp as my Fiio BTR5 'blew up' 2 days ago after the LiOn battery overheated and bulged, enough to pop the front glass panel off and crack the internal circuit board. I've contacted Fiio about it but no response yet and there likely won't be as they only cover battery issues for 6 months and the device itself for a year. And this happened 1 week past the warranty date.

 

I still really enjoyed the sonics from the balanced output of the BTR5 - it seemed to be a great unit for use with my Shure SE846 IEMs and a MEE Audio balanced MMCX cable. I'm tempted to just buy another BTR5 but I'm also looking at Fiio's Q5s TC. The Q5s TC uses AK DACs but also a higher power THX AAA amplifier module. The Q5s has the same amp module connection as some of Fiio's other amp products so it can be swapped out for different amp modules. Alas the Q5s TC is just over 3x the price of a new BTR5.

 

Even if LH does come through with the Wave, these days I'm fine with using a phone as my source device with an outboard DAC/headphone amp. The Q5s TC can also act as a USB DAC for a PC or other supported devices like a NVidia Shield Pro. And it has the capability of processing up to 768khz/32 bit audio and features DSD512 native decoding. No MQA support but I'm not convinced MQA is going to do anything better for me with my aging hearing. I've tried a couple of comparisons of DSD512 vs  MQA and couldn't hear the difference. In fact I couldn't tell the difference between DSD256 and DSD512 anymore.

 

Regardless, the movement on the Wave is still extremely sluggish, and does nothing for those of us that are waiting on multiple products. And now even my Pulse Blue that was delivered has failed. So the only working LH products I have are the LPS4 power supply and a Geek Out V2 Infinity, neither of which have seen use in over a year. Still pretty sad.... if I had the $6300 US back in my bank account, at least I could more easily find alternate products to meet my needs.

[AgentXXL]

1 minute ago, TomScrut said:

 

I didn't know they got made.

 

Did they do any of the VI DACs? 

 

Not that I'm aware of.

 

3 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Where is this update?

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-wave-a-no-compromise-portable-music-player?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bck-01022021update&utm_term=#/updates/all

 

but you should also receive it via email if you've allowed Indiegogo to do that.

 

[AgentXXL]

Just now, TomScrut said:

 

Thanks, I don't sub to the Wave as I didn't back it but I thought I had checked it's page.

 

Is there any way of contacting LH now? It seems they haven't a website yet are doing updates to Indiegogo! Very odd.

 

To my knowledge, most attempts at contacting 'them' have been through the main Light Harmonic website. I suspect 'them' is really only Larry Ho these days, and I'm certain he's not courageous enough to reach out and contact/apologize to individuals. He's always used his former schill, @stuck limo.

 

http://lightharmonic.com/

 

[AgentXXL]

14 hours ago, germay0653 said:

 

We're pretty much in the same boat.  For me, it was over $10K and I have nothing, a big fat goose egg, to show for it.  I trusted Larry's reputation based on the Da Vinci and got burned badly!  Suffice it to say, Crowdfunding will not be in my future.

 

The same for me re: crowdfunding. The whole LH fiasco has made it very difficult for me to support any further crowd-funding campaigns. I've only supported one on Kickstarter since, but it was a guaranteed item and was delivered as promised. There has been a few Indiegogo campaigns that I've been interested in, but as Indiegogo themselves won't take any responsibility or action against LH, I refuse to give them anymore business. And I now warn acquaintances whenever they mention they're thinking about contributing to a campaign. The closest I've come to crowd-funding since has been Drop (MassDrop), but everything I've ordered from them has come through as expected.

 

And for those interested, Fiio responded to my support request about the BTR5 that blew up when the battery overheated. Even though it happened 1 week past warranty, they're willing to repair it for a very affordable surcharge as long as I send the unit back to them in China. They asked that I remove the battery before shipping so I've had to disassemble it further, but they said no problem, they'll repair or replace it.

 

I also bit the bullet and ordered the Q5s TC. It might get here today, but tomorrow for sure. Looking forward to trying it out, especially as it has the much more powerful amplifier and can support some full-size cans as well as my IEMs.

 

 

 

[AgentXXL]

18 hours ago, JM_inMidMo said:

Does anyone think that leveraging Tesla/Elon Musk would shake things loose? I would like to see Ho suffer, especially in how he has left all of us backers clearly in the rear view seemingly without a care in the world (and outside of Jarek, there would have been zero responses from the no longer existent LH Labs and Mr. Ho), but at the same time, one can't squeeze blood from a turnip. If any action results in a lost revenue stream for Ho or if he had to reorganize, how could he ever pay us back? I guess I am an idealist who still thinks "Right" will prevail in the end. Interesting that the Light Harmonic website is now essentially focused only on Tesla Speaker systems (and maybe IEMs). Not surprising that there is no means to contact other than a web-form and regular mail.

 

Frustrating if not profoundly disappointing and, sadly, not the first time I have been taken.

 

15 hours ago, Jud said:

 

At the level we're working at, law doesn't do suffering, it does money, which Larry is good at not having any of when people come to collect.

 

I would also be surprised if Tesla has any current involvement with Ho. He can say he does Tesla speaker systems, but so can anyone else with a website.

 

I have on numerous occasions gone into the various Tesla owner/fan forums to advise them NOT to spend any money on any 'upgraded' audio components offered by LH Labs/Light Harmonic. I told the story that most of us here know all too well.. we were scammed. I was banned from FB twice for bad-mouthing LH. And I sent a letter to Tesla advising them of the outstanding products owed to past customers, advising them to steer clear of any partnership deals that LH might approach them with. Never heard back from Tesla, but at least a few of their customers were disgusted with LH's behavior. Not enough to make a financial impact, but at least some people know the truth.

 

Jarek - please just go away and taunt somebody else. You have nothing to offer that will ever get any of us to respect you. Why you even post is beyond me...

 

[AgentXXL]

21 hours ago, gkhowell said:

I am curious how this scam has affected folks' attitude toward crowdfunding in general. I will never sign on to anything more than a couple hundred bucks no matter how good it sounds. In fact my first crowdfunding purchase since the LH Labs fiasco was a firewall router from Firewalla last month and I only did that because they are an established company.

 

You would think it would be in Indiegogo's interest to maintain customer confidence. Maybe we need to make more noise about the scam so they pay attention.

 

For me, it has completely destroyed any enthusiasm towards crowd funding. I will likely never take part in a crowdfunding campaign again, and not just on Indiegogo. I did send Indiegogo numerous complaints but they don't care... once they get their take of the funds, they're in no way interested in what happens to contributors. Kickstarter has had a few campaigns that I was interested in, but I just couldn't take the chance that the result could be the same as with LH Labs. The product would have to be demonstrated as viable, and the pricing should be more than attractive, but it will still have to fight my overwhelming disgust at what the LH Labs fiasco resulted in.

 

Now if someone were to start a crowdfunding campaign to somehow bring mass attention to the scammers that Larry Ho and Gavin Fish are and even better, bring them to justice, then maybe I'd consider contributing.