Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[bernardperu]

Hi Everyone,

 

I gave LH Labs over USD$8,000 of my money 2.5 years ago and they keep asking me to be patient. They have not delivered the items I purchased. I feel ripped off.

 

Anyone else with a similar experience? I even talked to the owner Larry Ho who also asked me to be patient. When I sent the payments I was told that products would take no longer than 1 year. It is my guess that they are using everyone's money to bankroll their new products and pay for advertisement. 

 

Please share your review of LH Labs if you had a similar experience.

 

Thanks!

[bernardperu]

Thanks for your contribution, Samuel. I agree with the fact that they have a flawed business model. Their main flaw is being an unethical firm. Those who are funding their new projects or are buying their existing products ought to know that they are buying from an unethical business.

[bernardperu]

Avta, I wish I could file a police report! Since I leave in South America, that would be pretty complicated for me.

 

Eganz, I have asked for a partial refund. I told LH Labs that I would settle for an 80% refund. I received no answer.

 

As of now, I am planning to start a Facebook Page where I can gather complaints about this company (online marketing is my field of expertise). Hopefully, they (Larry Ho, the owner) will honor their clients' money if they see that their reputation may be damaged.

[bernardperu]

What really bothers me is that LH Labs keeps launching new products and spending money on advertisement (this probably keeps reviewers from discussing the matter). They should honor their clients' requests first.  

[bernardperu]

Thanks for your support! For all of those who are interested on this case, here is some data on the LH Labs fisco:

 

We should observe the following facts:

1) LH Labs has raised approximately 6 million US. dollars.
2) LH Labs refuses to provide deadlines of delivery.
3) LH Labs refuses to provide refunds (even to those who would settle just for a portion of their initial investment).
4) LH Labs refuses to provide updates on % of delivered items for all products (5-8 in total), except for the Pulse which they claim has a 94% successful delivery rate. 
5) Most backers have not received their items and most items have not been delivered.
6) Larry Ho seems to be the Director of the company that has his initials (what a coincidence!). 
7) We are unaware of how this company is actually formed and they refuse to provide data on their actual structure. The owner of LH Labs corporation is Yuan He (who is this person who is legally responsible for all this fiasco?) 
8) Larry Ho aims on staying in the audio industry. 

I really feel we backers are lost and we do not have any clear clues on whether our items will be ever delivered or not.

Anyone has any more facts to add?

 

By the way, I am hoping this case will make it to the Federal Authorities. 

[bernardperu]

Some comments:

 

I should add #8 Geek Pulse, Wave and Vi Dac raised 30 times more money than they officially needed to fund the project as anyone can see on their Indiegogo campaigns (IMO, I believe this was a scheme from the very start. They have 30 times more funding money than they claimed they needed). 

 

@kelvinswy  A lawsuit is too expensive and they know it. I believe a unified front to give Larry Ho Labs: 1) bad publicity and 2) trouble with Federal Authorities (there is probable cause to believe they committed fraud)  could work a lot better.

 

@panelhead It is my belief that they got carried out by greed from the very beginning (the #8 point expressed above suggests so). They led us to believe they had everything under control by conducting very sophisticated Indiegogo campaigns. The fact that they were selling very expensive DACs and actually delivering them(30k+) seemed to portray them as a well established firm. If you think about it, it is the perfect high-end audio scheme. On top of that, we audiophiles are not the average angry client who is willing to sacrifice peace of mind to target a malicious vendor-> we need the pece of mind to enjoy music.

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

[bernardperu]

12 minutes ago, DESIGNonly said:

I reached out with LHLabs to question my order fulfillment. They did not answer my question at all then just closed the ticket.

Does this company is still in business?

 

Yes, they still are. They seem to be answering at forum threads for Geek Wave, Pulse, and Vi Dac at Head-Fi. Perhaps, we could get them to start answering on this thread.

 

Larry Ho is the single owner of LH Labs and they are planning to continue doing business and selling audio.

[bernardperu]

6 hours ago, Panelhead said:

 

  It is telling that the direct sales were through Amazon. Guess no audio on line sites were interested.     

  I wonder how that went. Did they ship product to buyers from there and not the crowd funded orders?

  

  

 

LH Labs is delivering on Amazon and they even have customer reviews. I guess they used backers' crowdfunding money to develop and sell on Amazon. Nothing wrong with that except for the fact that backers have not received their products. 

[bernardperu]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

And yet at their own forums (https://support.lhlabs.com/support/discussions), questions and pleas for help and updates go unanswered --for months to years...  

 

They have control over their own forums and can delete bad feedback as they please. They are more careful when it comes to forums they do not own, as they are still working on their public image.

[bernardperu]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

I just spent 10 minutes looking at all the related active threads I could find on Head-Fi, and did not see anyone from LH Labs replying.  All that is contained in those threads is a far greater  number of any customers with stories to tell.

 

They have a rep named Stuck Limo who replies very often. (someone called him "stuck limbo").

[bernardperu]

2 hours ago, NOMBEDES said:

Do not the various state consumer affairs office or the state Attorney General shut down companies like LH? 

 

 

I am planning to look into this, as it is not an automatic process. I bet the FBI or the IRS would have a field day with them, as LH Labs's main breakthrough is very likely a new type of scheme.

[bernardperu]

On 1/29/2018 at 9:14 PM, Superdad said:

Interesting that when asked about plans to exhibit at 2018 audio shows, LH Lab's rep Stuck Limo on Head-Fi replied:

 

CES, CanJam in RMAF. Three shows in Japan and two in Hong Kong. One in Singapore. And one in Bristol. Hopefully showing the Wave, Tesla, and something else LH hopes will excite people. 

No guarantees on any of these, and Larry is still deciding on what best ones to visit. Right now the Asian market is absolutely exploding with headphone and audiophile gear, while the US market seems to be stagnating or shrinking, so obviously that's a consideration. CanJam is definitely being heavily eyed though for the States. CES is being debated.

 

Now, in a former role (as co-founder and  VP Sales & Marketing for Hovland Company, 1999-2009) I did a lot of trade shows.  Mostly CES, but also attended as guest with our overseas distributors in Japan and Germany.

Let's say LH Labs is going to be conservative and send just 3 people to each of these shows.  Consider freight costs, the shows own drayage and exhibit fees, hotels, airfare, meals, entertaining, marketing materials, etc.

I would estimate that if they exhibited at all 9 of the above mentioned shows, they would be spending a total of  between $375,000 to $475,000.

And he mentions they might preview another new product.  It would be an understatement to say that there are a lot of folks waiting on long overdue products who would prefer that LH Labs put those funds and the time into producing and delivering the goods.

 

BTW, I can recall at least one year at Hovland when we cancelled our CES room (even forfeiting our deposits) to stay home and put all hands on deck to get promised amps and preamps out the door.  It is called responsibility to ones' stakeholders. 

 

This is great info! I have dealt with multiple high-end audio dealers and manufacturers and my experience has been great. Unfortunately, LH Labs has dented the reputation of the whole industry. For instance, there is one trustworthy firm doing crowdfunding: Centrance. I bought one of their products from a crowdfunding campaign and they delivered on time. Now Centrance will have a much harder time finding backers courtesy of LH Labs.

 

The Hi End audio industry needs new venues to raise money. LH Labs screwed everybody in the industry: manufacturers and consumers. Level of trust is a priceless commodity.

 

 

[bernardperu]

I believe a lawsuit is a no go and LH Labs knows it. A lawsuit would not even work, even as a bluff.

 

I am aiming on many of the following (maybe all of them) to happen and, hopefully, bring some justice to Larry Ho Labs: 

 

1) Backers joining a unified front.

 

2) Start a web site/facebook page that posts our experience with them

 

3) The media picking up on the story.

 

4) LH Labs being investigated by Federal Authorities.

 

5) Federal Authorities forcing them to refund the money or send Larry Ho to prison.

 

I am hoping I can contribute to repair what Larry Ho has done to our audiophile world. I do not mean to sound dramatic, perhaps it is just a tiny contribution. 

 

 

[bernardperu]

22 hours ago, Panelhead said:

  I was surprised to see that CEntrance is crowd funding. Does anyone have a link?

  I am a believer in them. They were top notch ten years ago. Still own several KRK Ergo units that they designed and built. A poor mans Lygndorf. Uses Room Perfect for DRC. 

  I have three Geekouts and an Infinity from LH Labs. Consider this more luck than a good decision.

 

Please Google "Centrance audio indiegogo." They deserve good publicity!

[bernardperu]

Just to give everyone heads up. LH Labs maybe writing to this forum as a result of a post I made in a different web site. The name of the LH Labs rep is Jarek. After observing him for several months, It is my guess that Larry Ho offered him a portion of LH Labs or plenty of $$ if he is able to contain bad publicity. We need answers from him, so let's try not to sound too angry (just my opinion).

 

Here is a copy of Jarek's post and my reply:

 

stuck limo said: ↑

LH is unfamiliar with this person.** If you can provide a name, a source for the quote, and any other information, that would be helpful.

The figures this person you quoted are not entirely accurate, as at many of the shows, only one person attends (not the "conservative" number of 3). As for the pricing of the exhibits, we don't have those prices yet, so we can't comment, and we haven't even locked down which events we are attending. On a third note, most or all of the exhibits are paid for with non-IGG money, from our other products we sell to generate income.

**He refers to an industry player in this forum who made an assessment of LH Lab's expenses on audio trade shows. 

 

Hi Jarek, I admire your thoroughness when asking me for details. Time after time, you have proven to me your intelligence and the fact that you are always one step ahead. I am truly hesitant to believe that you buy into Larry Ho's business history and it is my guess that you have chosen to be a part of it to its full extent. You are anything but sloppy and naive. 

I have no problem sharing with you the forum thread quoted. I would truly appreciate it if you returned us the favor by answering one simple question: How come LH Labs raised 30 times more money than they originally needed for the Vi Dac, Pulse, and Wave and they have not delivered the vast majority of them?  

You can find the forum thread by Googling the contents of the quote or "LH Labs. No delivery after 2.5 Years"

I wish you good luck with the highly educated and business savvy audiophiles and industry players in that forum. They await you. Many of them are waiting for their LH products.

[bernardperu]

15 minutes ago, marflao said:

Bernard,

 

you know I´m by far not a LHL Labs fanboy anymore and I sympathize with your approach that something needs to be changed regarding Larry Ho´s behaviour towards us backers.

 

Nonetheless I think it´s not fair and appropriate to "bash" on Jarek. 

He was hired by Larry to support (in regards to communication to us backers as well to solve the ticket issues and the order status mayhem.).

 

Of course he gets paid by LHL (guess nobody would do this for free, or?) but I don´t assume this will be plenty of $$.

And bottomline is: he is just the mediator and is totally dependent on Larry Ho´s input. So Larry is the bloody bottleneck. He is the campaigner to whom the current situation should be addressed too and who should be made responsible.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Hi there, we happen to have different opinions on Jarek's role in LH Labs. My company has a 70+ staff and I have never gotten nor forced anyone to work so many hours. Jarek's work hours match an entrepreneur's work hours. Ask yourself: Why would an intelligent, educated, hard working, charismatic, and well articulated individual put in so many hours into Larry Ho's company? Many companies would love to hire Jarek! Why would a highly qualified individual with spectacular work ethics choose Larry Ho as his 60+ hours week boss? You may still disagree with me, but those are just our opinions. Perhaps my post came across as me "bashing" Jarek, but my intention was just to state my opinion.

 

We should at least agree on the fact that when we are talking to Jarek we are talking to LH Labs. We should see Jarek as just a professional carrying out the job of embodying LH Labs (Larry Ho's) business voice. It is fine if you disagree :-)

 

 

 

[bernardperu]

1 hour ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

Fixed/clarified. (again)

 

Fair enough. We should leave speculation out and my assessment was based on speculation.

 

I have some questions for you and we will be enormously thankful if you can reply to them with factual info:

 

What % of the Geek Waves, Geek Pulses, and the Vi Dacs have you delivered so far? That is the % of the total number of such products purchased thru Indiegogo. LH Labs has raised around 5 million USD for these products and your crowdfunding goal was surpassed by a factor of 30 (meaning you raised 30 times more money than you originally claimed was enough in order to develop the products)

 

Thanks!

[bernardperu]

9 hours ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

I understand from various sources/chatter (industry and customer based) that you have a particular beef with LH/LH Labs, not based on crowdfunding, but dating back to the Revive vs your competitor product. Otherwise, it's very odd that Uptone would continue to attack another non-associated company on the forums like I've seen you do. Did you in fact receive your Pulse or Geek Out? If so, I'm unsure why you continue to focus your efforts on badmouthing LH instead of focusing on your own business. 

 

Other than that, Alex, I really don't know anything about you, nor have I heard anything bad about your products in general. I've only heard good things about your company, so I have no personal beef with you and have no desire to get into an LH/Uptone "war". Nor do I wish to associate myself personally or professionally with any type of war of words with you. Thanks. 

 

Jarek, this is a very low punch. Your attitude towards an ethical member of the audio trade community is despicable. Perhaps you belong to a very different team??

 

larry ho and yourself have done tremendous damage to hi end audio manufacturers. You have done so by profitting from 6 million dollars of undelivered goods. 

[bernardperu]

46 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

Geoff, LHL gets funding from LH, so LH components are needing to be sold to generate funds for LHL products. Therefore, LH products take priority as they're feeding the backers' products. Without LH, the backers cannot get products at this point.

 

The IGG campaigns were a disaster and a lost money venture. There is no money or funding in IGG itself for IGG products for this company any more. Or at the least, very little. We've stated this multiple multiple times across many many avenues.

Please note we are being treated as sheep. LH is claiming they need to exisit and sell products in order to deliver 6 million usd worth of goods to backers. So they ask backers to back off so they can sell. They want backers to shut up and not post any bad feedback so they can continue to cheat on those who are unaware of their business practices. 

 

We backers have to be loud and hope: 1) a federal agency will eventually get us some justice 2) other audio consumers know what LH really stands for. 

 

Man! I am really hoping i eventually meet someone from the FBI or similar agency who can look into this ugly mess and find us some justice!

 

[bernardperu]

31 minutes ago, Geoff1954 said:

@LHCommSquad

 

As a Source backer through IGG, I have read everything that has been sent to my email address from LH Labs regarding the Source. I have never seen a message with the information you say you have just repeated.

Today is the first day I have understood -- from LH Labs rather than my own intuition -- that somehow an enormous amount of money, not to mention good will, was squandered and that there is no longer any meaningful commitment to fulfill orders for the Source placed through IGG.

In light of this discussion I eagerly await an email from LH Labs (not a comment on the page of another entity) that spells this out clearly to every person who sent you money for the Source.

Does anyone here have any idea who we could write to at the management of IGG to call to their attention their own ethical responsibility to come clean about this disaster they helped orchestrate?

You should write to the media so a federal agency takes notice. This is a 6 million usd scam. 

[bernardperu]

19 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

There is a meaningful commitment to fulfill orders, as per my previous post. There is no accurate timeline though.

 

I'll let Larry know your thoughts on sending out a blast email, but we've certainly never hid that fact regarding LHL being a lost venture on IGG. We've stated it multiple multiple times across IGG itself, Head-Fi, CA, SBAF, conversations with backers, etc. Anyone who is plugged into IGG or the campaigns should know this information, as it's always a hot topic of conversation across multiple (including IGG) platforms.

Most or the LH labs IGG campaigns reached 3000% of their original goal. It is impossible to believe it is not a scam. That is why Jarek will never address in a direct manner this 3000% factor. 

[bernardperu]

21 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

There is a meaningful commitment to fulfill orders, as per my previous post. There is no accurate timeline though.

 

I'll let Larry know your thoughts on sending out a blast email, but we've certainly never hid that fact regarding LHL being a lost venture on IGG. We've stated it multiple multiple times across IGG itself, Head-Fi, CA, SBAF, conversations with backers, etc. Anyone who is plugged into IGG or the campaigns should know this information, as it's always a hot topic of conversation across multiple (including IGG) platforms.

Most or the LH labs IGG campaigns reached 3000% of their original goal. It is impossible to believe it is not a scam. That is why Jarek will never address in a direct manner this 3000% factor. 

[bernardperu]

11 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

No, you continue to BS all IGG backers and try to make it look like you are actually still working on delivering something when you are not. Hence the occasional "update' with things like renderings of a "new Vi DAC chassis option" which first appeared in Nov 2017, along with subsequent assertions that the chassis versions both old and new were now being produced by 2 different factories.

 

But no actual units were ever produced or shipped.

 

You forgot those lies, didn't you Jarek?

 

You see when you tell so many lies, it's difficult or impossible to even remember them all, isn't it?

 

 

Jarek’s main job is to appease backers so:

 

1) time goes by and angry backers fade away

 

2) prevent future LH customers from hearing from IGG backers. He wants to avoid well deserved bad publicity. 

 

3) the media and US federal agencies dont look into this matter. 

[bernardperu]

I believe that, Jarek @LHCommSquad, as a representative of L(arry) H(o) Labs, owes us some minimum standard of respect. and he should answer two very basic questions:

 

Geek Wave raised almost 1.7M USD and exceeded its original funding goal by 34 times (raised 3478% of its original goal). 

 

Vi Dac raised 2852% of its original goal.

 

So LH Labs claimed they needed X amount to develop and deliver the products and they got 35X and 29X, respectively.

 

1) How is it conceivable that after exceeding the original funding goal by such a huge margin you are unable to at least finish one of the products 4-5 years later?

 

2) If you did finish the products, what % of each of the products have you delivered?

 

 

Thank you for answering these very basic questions!

 

 

 

 

[bernardperu]

I started this thread and i do consider it to be very successful. Another forum, Head-Fi, has done an awful job at protecting our rights as consumers. After all, this is a $6 Million USD fiasco that has a large impact on the High End industry. 

 

Do you, fellow members of Audiophile style, know of any other forums where we, highly disappointed customers of Larry Ho, can post our concerns about this LH issue?

 

Thank you!