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Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

bernardperu

By bernardperu
in General Forum

The Computer Audiophile
Message added by The Computer Audiophile

All those who contributed to the spreadsheet of losses - please check your email and Spam for email from: [email protected].

The deadline is Jan. 3rd to confirm that you will "join the complaint". To join you need to read the email and attachments and send back one document.

Happy New Year!

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marflao

marflao

Posted
Posted
On 30.1.2018 at 9:54 PM, DESIGNonly said:

LH Labs replied me about my Geek Source Order, below is their response:

 

"We are currently working on the Source project. We are finishing up on the Signature Edition models, and then we will begin work on the regular editions. We'll keep updating everyone as those dates become available! If there's anything else, please let us know and keep following our IGG page for the latest updates. 

 
Jarek"
 
But the response does not commit anything to the product delivery time frame...
 

At least one of their lessons learnt from the past: don't mention anything you can't fulfill. 

 

I stopped counting how many times this and that should have been shipped. 

#defraudedbylhl

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marflao

marflao

Posted
Posted

Bernard,

 

you know I´m by far not a LHL Labs fanboy anymore and I sympathize with your approach that something needs to be changed regarding Larry Ho´s behaviour towards us backers.

 

Nonetheless I think it´s not fair and appropriate to "bash" on Jarek. 

He was hired by Larry to support (in regards to communication to us backers as well to solve the ticket issues and the order status mayhem.).

 

Of course he gets paid by LHL (guess nobody would do this for free, or?) but I don´t assume this will be plenty of $$.

And bottomline is: he is just the mediator and is totally dependent on Larry Ho´s input. So Larry is the bloody bottleneck. He is the campaigner to whom the current situation should be addressed too and who should be made responsible.

 

Just my thoughts.

#defraudedbylhl

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marflao

marflao

Posted
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Posted
5 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Hmmm... So does that mean they have a giant pile of cash from their Indiegogo campaigns that they don't touch for anything but the products they were pledged for?  If so, then why won't they issue refunds from that fund to all those who are asking?

Sorry, that line does not pass the smell test...O.o

 

Yeah... especially since LHL has the impression that one/two handful backers are the only ones who are unsatisfied with the current situation and request refunds. 

 

Hence why can't they issue the refunds to those guys and peace for all. 

IGG pointed me to discuss those topics (missing campaign updates, refunds) with the campaigner because they don't interfere once the campaign is in "in demand" status. 

 

Guess how the campaigner (IGG still mentioned G. Fish to me?!?!), Larry Ho, reacted so far? Yes... correct... with his usual submarine-silence. 

 

Besides that: what are they selling these days that it covers all the payments for rent, wages etc.? Those Tesla speakers? GO2As? 

Really?

#Fairytaledeluxe

#defraudedbylhl

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  • 11 months later...
marflao

marflao

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

I'd like to clarify this:

 

1. Head-Fi is not a consumer protection agency, and has no obligation to act as one.

2. I happen to personally know that the reason the threads at Head-Fi haven't been shut down is because Head-Fi is concerned it would be accused of NOT helping customers of LHL get and share information (you seem to be advocating for that communication avenue to be shut down)

3. Light Harmonic threads (not LHL) and reviews for non-IGG merch are banned at Head-Fi until at LEAST the campaigns are completed. (personal knowledge)

4. LH/L don't sponsor over at Head-Fi nor have we ever discussed that option, nor would we be allowed to.

5. They don't allow personal attacks, and have removed posts with personal attacks, much to the chagrin of some members. Head-Fi has community standards that members must follow. 

6. The members appreciate Head-Fi as it gives them a direct avenue of communication between themselves and LHL and those threads are still active.

 

By any objective standards, Head-Fi has done a fine job of protecting consumer interests.

 

 

Have my doubts regarding point #3, Jarek. 

Remember the discussion we had around the Stella review which was done by one of the "pro" reviewers?

Although the "article" - if I'm not mistaken - was not published on HF the guy posted the link to his site. 

Still enough marketing for LH stuff... 

#defraudedbylhl

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  • 2 weeks later...
marflao

marflao

Posted
Posted

I like the idea, Jud, but of course this would require the help of us backers.

 

And I presume the spreadsheet would only be a "top of the iceberg" since me might reach some here and there but I honestly I doubt that we´ll reach most of them.

 

Even LH was not even able to collect all the infos required for the BOM; they have not 100% valid data - at least that´s the information they spread - based on the IGG orders and were not able to contact all backers.

 

But why not..lets give it a try and collect as much as possible.

 

I would volunteer if we have four columns for the infos:

- username (this column should be hidden but of course known 😉

- Forum (where the user is known)

- expected Device (e.g. Wave XD)

- Total $ (paid for the device including all of its perks)

 

Cheers,

Markus

 

 

#defraudedbylhl

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marflao

marflao

Posted
Posted

alright...here we go.

 

Sheet has been created: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vE7_LByDDY6w8J-E-l4njfkvXcggTasrG90z11swJww/edit?usp=sharing

 

In case you want to be part of this sheet pls send me an email to defraudedbylhl at gmail dot com with the following  details:

- username (as mentioned.. it is hidden)

- "your" forum where you use the username

- from which continent you are

- which LHL device(s) you have backed and

- how much you paid for each backed device.

 

Cheers,

M.

 

 

 

 

#defraudedbylhl

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marflao

marflao

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Posted

Since I can´t edit my post from above i would like to add something:

 

some guys contacted me already asking for request to the sheet. I would prefer that I will remain the only one to have the access to add/change something to the table.

 

Reason for this is that I don´t want to risk that the table will be hijacked by anybody (especially any LHL fanboy).

 

Hence I hope I don´t offend anybody.

Cheers,

M.  

#defraudedbylhl

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marflao

marflao

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, noshortcuts said:

How does this spreadsheet help us or a lawsuit? As far as LHL endorsing it, LOL! - LHL SHOULD already know who ordered what. And if they don’t know, do you think they would really honor what we write in an open spreadsheet? That would be IF LHL EVER starts delivering anything and then they would need to do more surveys and double check everything again anyway.

 

At least I hope it will help us in a potential case vs Larry/LHL. Not sure if this will happen but at least we should compile as much data in the list as possible.

 

But I honestly thought more would add their info. So I guess we need to spread the word a bit more about this list.

Anybody here involved in the other LHL IGG campaigns for the amps/headamps etc? Maybe he/she can post something in their comments (although they might be deleted asap)?

#defraudedbylhl

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marflao

marflao

Posted
Posted

I hope you're right regarding others don't have currently access to their data. We'll see.

 

Jarek will be able to see the same info you guys will see since the sheet is visible to everybody who has the URL. And that's it. He won't get access and the usernames.

 

As I mentioend earlier I don't intend to to do LHL's job compiling the exact order info with Paypal-/order numbers.

Seems that LHL failed once more to get those info...

#defraudedbylhl

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marflao

marflao

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I personally think a complaint to the division of the California Attorney General’s office that handles consumer affairs would be the most appropriate procedure and stand the best chance of success.  So now imagine making the initial contact with the AG’s office, and instead of an individual with a phone complaint, you have documentation of hundreds of people not getting millions of dollars worth of stuff they paid for 4-5 years ago.

 

That’s a reason to have a spreadsheet.

 

That's what I also thought would be the reason having this spreadsheet. 

But I'm afraid it won't be much of use if there aren't enough participants.

 

I would guess the AG needs a kind of critical mass for this sheet; not sure if this would be amount of money or number of backers or both.

But currently we're far away from this critical mass which will give a big smile on Larry's face.

 

Hence let the info coming 😉

 

 

#defraudedbylhl

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marflao

marflao

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

That's not how that worked or works. Larry is fully aware of what the backers are attempting to do, he's fully aware of the activity in this thread, and the spreadsheet and the intent of the spreadsheet. He was fine with the existence of the sheet.

 

Maybe I made my post not clear enough: the critical mass is for the AG. 

If we don't get more participants to join the spreadsheet the critical mass won't be accomplished which would give a grin to Larry's face. 

#defraudedbylhl

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marflao

marflao

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5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Has anyone contacted the crowdfunding platform(s)?

 

Yes... I did for instance a year ago to find out if they can give a refund and/or take some actions against LHL. 

 

Dead end.. they pointed me back to the campaigner who - based on their records - would be "Jon Gavin Fish". 

But at that time Fish left LHL already and if I'm not mistaken Jon Gavin is our famous Gavin's dad. 

 

Here's the first response I got from IGG:

 

Hi Markus,

Thanks for your note. 

The nature of crowdfunding is such that campaigns on Indiegogo are raising funds for work-in-progress projects, ideas, or causes. Backing a campaign and claiming a perk on Indiegogo is not the same as buying something online. Because projects may still be in their early stages, many things can happen between the time the project is raising funds and the expected project release date. While your contribution brings the campaign idea closer to becoming reality, there's always the chance that a project may end up falling through, and the campaigner may not be able to offer their backers the perks they'd originally promised.

That said, campaigners are still held by our Terms of Use to fulfill perks. If for any reason they're unable to offer you the perk you claimed, campaigners are obligated to reach out to their contributors and work out a mutually satisfactory resolution- this resolution could be an alternative perk, a promise to issue the promised perk at a later date if the campaign owner is able to raise additional funds, or a refund. Indiegogo cannot moderate these discussions and any resolution would occur directly between the campaigner and backer. We always recommend opening up a conversation with the campaigner if you have any question about what will happen to your contribution if the campaigner is unable to raise the funds they need to complete their project.

In looking at your contribution to the crowdfunding campaign "Geek Pulse DAC: High-Rez Desktop DAC System," I see that your contribution is outside the refund window.

As such, a refund can no longer be issued by Indiegogo. Learn more about our Crowdfunding Refund Policy, here.

If you’re still interested in receiving a refund, we recommend you get in touch with the campaigner directly. I've Cc'ed them here, and am including both of your email addresses below so you can communicate about your refund request.

Campaigner:

 

Edit: of course I haven't ever received a response from the campaigner who - as said above by the IGG happiness guy - was in copy. 

#defraudedbylhl

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