Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[Currawong]

I find it puzzling why they haven't completely sh--canned the Wave, and still annually pull out that "Completed soon" nonsense. I've speculated about this before, but I heard a story that the hole that LHLabs had dug for themselves threatened Indiegogo's existence, as if they hadn't delivered, the fallout would have been too big. My speculation is that they cannot cancel the Wave because Indiegogo has some kind of hold over them still. 

[Currawong]

12 hours ago, Jud said:

 

For LHL projects other than the Wave, of which there are a few, I think the Geek Out v2 may have been the only one where most or all customers received a product.  But I have not followed these, just read the complaints, so the best information would come from backers of these other projects.

 

Yes you would add the pledges for the various projects to get the total.  @Superdad mentioned that when he added it all up a couple of years ago, it was around $5 million at that time.

 

The original Geek Out shipped. I bought one. The V2 completely shipped AFAIK. They claim the Pulse and variations shipped fully, but there are still a few people complaining about broken units. 

 

The last total shipped units information posted that I'm aware of (unless one was posted last year) was this one:

 

 

I'm with you on a public audit. Gavin Fish said to me in person, a few years ago, that he "did $12M this year" (or words to that effect). Take from that what you will. 

 

The problem is, of course, that the company is completed FiretrUCKED. Larry seems to be trying to innovate his way out of this disaster, by making and selling new products.  I'm surprised he isn't actually focussed on the Geek Out and GOV2, as both are good products that are right where they are needed in the headphone market at the moment. However if your company name is poison, I guess that kills things. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Currawong]

45 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

already shared this with another member here privately, but I'll post it again, since it's just sitting here. This was from September 2017 and a ****ROUGH DRAFT**** of an update we never published, due to a variety of reasons.

 

I pulled it from a public update, here: https://support.lhlabs.com/support/solutions/articles/13000037905-wave-update-chart-9-17-2017

 

I totally believe Larry is determined to pull through all this, but it would be nice if he posted where the $1.1M (or whatever it was, as the page has vanished from Indiegogo) for the Wave went. 

 

Edit: Found some old pictures:

 

 

[Currawong]

LHCommSquad is correct about Head-Fi.

 

What I suggested LHLabs should do is this: 

 

1. Kill the Geek Wave Project. 

2. Use whatever funds are left to buy, at wholesale prices, a good alternate DAP, with a retail price equivalent to what backers paid (or less, if funds are too low), and send it to them. 

 

I seriously doubt that even if the project is completed, that they'll be able to actually afford to support and provide updates for it.

[Currawong]

On 1/12/2019 at 4:03 AM, LHCommSquad said:

Addressed here in Sept 2017: 

https://support.lhlabs.com/solution/articles/13000037906-faq-did-lh-labs-use-wave-s-funding-to-sponsor-other-products-

 

"First of all, please know that the $1.6M USD shown on Indiegogo campaign is not 100% directly related to Geek Wave project. There is Geek Source music server, Pulse DAC combo, Headphone holiday sales of Hifiman, Audeze, DSD music download, USB 1G/2G Cable, and IEM-X, Vibrato earbud... there. In order to get the exact number, we downloaded from Indiegogo backend and remove all the none-wave-related perks in that Excel. The overall number and funding we got for Geek Wave development and manufacturing is $680,869.28 (After 9% deduction from Indiegogo's commission and Paypal's transaction fee) 

 

For a big project to develop a super high-end portable player, this $680K+ is really not a lot and we always carefully using it. There is no room to sponsor any other products by this fund. "

 

 

How about the profits from those sales too? How much of the $680k is left? Is there any way of knowing, or was it all pooled together and now LHLabs/Light Harmonic has almost nothing? If so, where did it all go?

 

I'm going to speculate again: If my suggestion about buying commercially available DAPs and sending them to customers instead is unviable, it suggests the LHLabs has blown all their funds and is running on fumes, only keeping up the pretence of actually completing the project to avoid being sued into non-existence. 

 

On 1/18/2019 at 6:00 AM, LHCommSquad said:

 

Is that like Mikhail from SinglePower Audio?

 

Bringing up a guy famous for taking a lot of money from people, then giving them nothing for years (and sometimes nothing at all) is really putting your foot in your mouth, isn't it?

[Currawong]

The specs on the Indiegogo project say 200 lumens and 1080p picture size. The shitty Alibaba one is only 50 lumens and 854x480. I somehow doubt that such a tiny lens will give a good 1080p image though. 

[Currawong]

Why not set up a form for people to submit their info?

[Currawong]

On 10/24/2019 at 4:51 AM, LHCommSquad said:

 

Rephrased: Again, I can assure you that NO ONE at LH Labs or LH sits around thinking about other companies and going into related threads to pick unprovoked fights about their businesses, failed or otherwise, regardless of whose threads they are.

 

No, only sitting around thinking about what fake updates can be posted until the end of the statute of limitations for a fraud lawsuit. 

[Currawong]

I used to be staff on HF, and while I wont go into details as to why, anything mentioning lawyers or legal matters is forbidden. They simply and absolutely don't want to have anything to do with any legal matters whatsoever.

[Currawong]

https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/70374166

 

Translated summary: 

 

Quote

Outline:

For your convenience, here is an overview of the major deeds of this bad company:

------ 1. Geek Wave, a crowdfunding million-dollar player, has so far been silent

------ 2. The core product Da Vinci has a yield rate of nearly 0% and cannot be resolved after sale

------ 3. Routines were spotted in the US hifi circle, one shot for another place, the target turned to the Chinese market

------ 4. Earplug stella relies on plagiarism, exhibition design plagiarizes other company's creativity

------ 5. Arrears in arrears, deduction of employees' wages, old habits

 

Seems the Da Vinci was a complete dud with a 100% failure rate. If only everyone had known this years ago.

[Currawong]

12 hours ago, Beefalo said:

Jarek is on the job (non-paid lol). He’s had a couple of my posts removed from that thread for calling him nothing more than a troll at this point. He must have some relationship with a moderator beyond just an industry one.

 

As an ex-admin of Head-Fi, I can say for certain that that kind of BS does not go on there. 

[Currawong]

While I cannot speak for anything Jarek has done regarding anything else, I confirmed last night, and I can say for absolutely certain that the only reason posts were deleted in that thread on HF were due to a strict policy of not allowing discussion of legal matters.   While I might wish that they'd relax that policy in this instance, they wont.   

 

 

[Currawong]

On 1/8/2020 at 4:57 AM, bernardperu said:

 

So it is a big mystery to me why the owner(s) of Head-Fi are not allowing us to single out and expose Larry Ho. This is not a vendetta. This is a matter of rebuilding trust by seeking justice. 

 

 

They are. You can post as much as you like about what LHLabs/Larry/Gavin and everyone else has done.

 

I get it though. You aren't allowed to do something and you're not happy. Heck, I get it. I think the matter should be on the front page of every audio forum out there.

 

However, they do not allow discussion of legal cases, or anything that may become one, under any circumstances. I'm seriously confused by how the distinction between allowing people to post what they like about a company, and posting about legal cases is not abundantly clear. Please read the bolded text again, at least 5 times, with extra emphasis on the last 3 words. It is really that simple.

 

On 1/8/2020 at 4:09 PM, buonassi said:

They have a banned list of manufacturers, and we're not even allowed to discuss those products, let alone link to them.  Why they haven't placed LH on this list is baffling.

 

So you don't want people warning people about LHLabs on Head-Fi, and all the history of what went on erased from the forums? 

[Currawong]

There is supposed to be some kind of special update soon, but as I've pointed out on HF, anything other than a "mass manufacture" update, with pictures of the final product, is just more BS. They can't afford more than beta boards it seems, which is odd, considering they would be paying about $70k/year for their office, and between 11 and 50 employees given other listings (though they may be out of date). I have to wonder what name they are trading under, as LH Labs is no longer listed as a company in CA, and Light Harmonic isn't listed anywhere that I can find.

 

Considering nowadays you could basically go to Shenzen, build your own phone (and likely DAP) and get a UI from Hiby, there's no reason at all for it not be possible for Larry to finalise things if he were actually intending to manufacture the Wave.

[Currawong]

On 7/18/2020 at 3:08 PM, Cecil said:

My message was meant to be a plea to Jarek and Larry, but by what has occurred I am now a little concerned that it appears Larry and Jarek may be being afforded some sort of protection, which if true, I find astounding given what has happened to many of those who read and contribute to this and other online forums. I truly hope this is not the case.

 

I can assure you, as having previously been an admin on the site, that they are most definitely not protecting anyone, and absolutely NOT Larry.  If you want to PM me the name of the person who edited your post, I'll ask them about it. 

[Currawong]

12 hours ago, erniejade said:

Vi DAC Indiegogo Campaign - YouTube

 

Thank You, Thank You, THANK YOU! - YouTube

 

 

 

Found some old YouTube video's.  

 

Interesting that there is only one, 4-second video about the Wave on their channel.   I still believe that they never planned to complete it.

[Currawong]

The person who holds the most blame is Gavin, IMO. He is the one who turned a $300 Geek Pulse into a $1200 product with more perks than anyone could sanely managed to build and distribute. My impression (going by things relayed to me that I can't share) is that he essentially shafted Larry.  He obviously knew that the Wave could never be made and bailed out, leaving Larry with an impossible mess, and presumably no money other than his own, and no-one willing to touch LHLabs with a 10 foot barge pole.

 

It seems Larry then found the odd company that had no idea what had gone on with LHLabs and managed to strike deals with them, until they found out the history and ran as fast as they could.

 

I once PM'ed a guy who was talking up LHLabs, back in about 2014 or 2015, telling that person about major red flags with the company, but not realising how buddy-buddy they were with the company. Next thing I know, at a CanJam I get veiled threats from Larry about what I'd said, while in the same conversation he's talking about how he had made $12m that year. 

 

IANAL but someone needs to focus on that payment LHLabs requested for shipping for the Wave, as surely it counts as wire fraud, given they never shipped anything.

[Currawong]

I think a major part of the problem was Gavin pushing more and more upgrades for the Pulse, and letting things get way out of control. Compare that to, say, Schiit audio, a few years ago, not wanting to do more than one chassis color since they were concerned about having to double the number of SKUs, and the added complexity and issues it would cause them (at least from my memory of a conversation with Jason Stoddard).

 

The "cease and desist" thing is grossly ironic, as Gavin tried to shut me up in person with (what I recall were) vague legal threats when I started telling people that there were major red flags with what was going on at LH Labs. He then bragged that he had taken in $12m that year.  What he failed to mention was that very little of that money had put products into customer hands at the time.