Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[bernardperu]

I started this thread and i do consider it to be very successful. Another forum, Head-Fi, has done an awful job at protecting our rights as consumers. After all, this is a $6 Million USD fiasco that has a large impact on the High End industry. 

 

Do you, fellow members of Audiophile style, know of any other forums where we, highly disappointed customers of Larry Ho, can post our concerns about this LH issue?

 

Thank you!

 

 

[stuck limo]

53 minutes ago, bernardperu said:

 Another forum, Head-Fi, has done an awful job at protecting our rights as consumers.

 

 

 

I'd like to clarify this:

 

1. Head-Fi is not a consumer protection agency, and has no obligation to act as one.

2. I happen to personally know that the reason the threads at Head-Fi haven't been shut down is because Head-Fi is concerned it would be accused of NOT helping customers of LHL get and share information (you seem to be advocating for that communication avenue to be shut down)

3. Light Harmonic threads (not LHL) and reviews for non-IGG merch are banned at Head-Fi until at LEAST the campaigns are completed. (personal knowledge)

4. LH/L don't sponsor over at Head-Fi nor have we ever discussed that option, nor would we be allowed to.

5. They don't allow personal attacks, and have removed posts with personal attacks, much to the chagrin of some members. Head-Fi has community standards that members must follow. 

6. The members appreciate Head-Fi as it gives them a direct avenue of communication between themselves and LHL and those threads are still active with participants.

 

By any objective standards, Head-Fi has done a fine job of protecting consumer interests.

 

[bernardperu]

10 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

 

By any objective standards, Head-Fi has done a fine job of protecting consumer interests.

 

 

Sounds like LH Labs thinks Head-Fi is cool!

 

Now can I please hear recommendations on other forums where we can post about LH Labs? Thanks a lot!

[marflao]

17 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

I'd like to clarify this:

 

1. Head-Fi is not a consumer protection agency, and has no obligation to act as one.

2. I happen to personally know that the reason the threads at Head-Fi haven't been shut down is because Head-Fi is concerned it would be accused of NOT helping customers of LHL get and share information (you seem to be advocating for that communication avenue to be shut down)

3. Light Harmonic threads (not LHL) and reviews for non-IGG merch are banned at Head-Fi until at LEAST the campaigns are completed. (personal knowledge)

4. LH/L don't sponsor over at Head-Fi nor have we ever discussed that option, nor would we be allowed to.

5. They don't allow personal attacks, and have removed posts with personal attacks, much to the chagrin of some members. Head-Fi has community standards that members must follow. 

6. The members appreciate Head-Fi as it gives them a direct avenue of communication between themselves and LHL and those threads are still active.

 

By any objective standards, Head-Fi has done a fine job of protecting consumer interests.

 

 

Have my doubts regarding point #3, Jarek. 

Remember the discussion we had around the Stella review which was done by one of the "pro" reviewers?

Although the "article" - if I'm not mistaken - was not published on HF the guy posted the link to his site. 

Still enough marketing for LH stuff... 

[stuck limo]

2 hours ago, marflao said:

 

Have my doubts regarding point #3, Jarek. 

Remember the discussion we had around the Stella review which was done by one of the "pro" reviewers?

Although the "article" - if I'm not mistaken - was not published on HF the guy posted the link to his site. 

Still enough marketing for LH stuff... 

 

2 and 3 are 100% confirmed by Jude himself. They may or may not be allowing links, but nothing about Light Harmonic regarding threads or dedicated review pages on Head-Fi is allowed. The anti-Head-Fi comments are perplexing to say the least....I don't believe they've acted unfairly towards backers, and they haven't really acted unfairly towards us....

[Jud]

3 hours ago, bernardperu said:

By any objective standards, Head-Fi has done a fine job of protecting consumer interests.

 

I'll feel more protected when I get my stuff or my money.

 

Edit - sorry Bernard, the quote mechanism made it look like you said this, when actually it was from @LHCommSquad as quoted in your comment.

[Currawong]

LHCommSquad is correct about Head-Fi.

 

What I suggested LHLabs should do is this: 

 

1. Kill the Geek Wave Project. 

2. Use whatever funds are left to buy, at wholesale prices, a good alternate DAP, with a retail price equivalent to what backers paid (or less, if funds are too low), and send it to them. 

 

I seriously doubt that even if the project is completed, that they'll be able to actually afford to support and provide updates for it.

[jjraffin]

On 4/6/2017 at 3:42 AM, bernardperu said:

Avta, I wish I could file a police report! Since I leave in South America, that would be pretty complicated for me.

 

Eganz, I have asked for a partial refund. I told LH Labs that I would settle for an 80% refund. I received no answer.

 

As of now, I am planning to start a Facebook Page where I can gather complaints about this company (online marketing is my field of expertise). Hopefully, they (Larry Ho, the owner) will honor their clients' money if they see that their reputation may be damaged.

Count me in too. 

[jjraffin]

2 hours ago, Currawong said:

LHCommSquad is correct about Head-Fi.

 

What I suggested LHLabs should do is this: 

 

1. Kill the Geek Wave Project. 

2. Use whatever funds are left to buy, at wholesale prices, a good alternate DAP, with a retail price equivalent to what backers paid (or less, if funds are too low), and send it to them. 

 

I seriously doubt that even if the project is completed, that they'll be able to actually afford to support and provide updates for it.

An interesting idea. But it doesn't help for people like me after a VI Dac, a Source, an LPS4 as well as a Wave.

 

They should shut it all down, even if it means we only get cents in the dollar. Otherwise cash burn will see nothing. 

 

If I get any of my "perked" products in a working state, I will apologise profusely to Jarek and Larry. But I think I have a sure bet. 

 

 

[bernardperu]

1 hour ago, jjraffin said:

Count me in too. 

Will keep you udated. 

[buonassi]

On 1/11/2019 at 2:26 AM, LHCommSquad said:

Ken Ball essentially retracted his statement. All members of the public and all members of the press have access to this document which outlines the entire accusation and response, including pictures: 

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HrwXXAj6hpvtB9jpXDtTQOh70XboSzrNlYJ6j1qtjQs/edit?usp=sharing

 

Nothing in this document even comes close to suggesting Ken Ball retracted his statement(s).  It appears that at some point the google doc may have had other screen shots in it; and perhaps they contain the proof you're espousing.  But there are none in this document link besides this sole screen shot from Ken.  It refers more to his latest IEM, the solaris, and only briefly mentions 'letting go of the past'.  That is supposed to be Ken Ball essentially retracting a statement?

 

 

[stuck limo]

16 minutes ago, buonassi said:

 

Nothing in this document even comes close to suggesting Ken Ball retracted his statement(s).  It appears that at some point the google doc may have had other screen shots in it; and perhaps they contain the proof you're espousing.  But there are none in this document link besides this sole screen shot from Ken.  It refers more to his latest IEM, the solaris, and only briefly mentions 'letting go of the past'.  That is supposed to be Ken Ball essentially retracting a statement?

 

 

 

Yes, correct. "Letting go of the past" (in our view and by a reasonable reading of that post within context) specifically refers to the CA/LH drama that Ken Ball initially posted, especially since it's in direct response to a Stella comment from a poster. And especially since Ken has never once again mentioned the supposedly destroyed Asteria after he received the package back with the unopened Asteria he accused us of opening. In light of that, that statement by Ken is tantamount to a reluctant, very quiet retraction.

[buonassi]

okay... well that's a stretch @LHCommSquad and a far cry from a retraction.  Is this a common PR tactic?  Assert, then point to 'proof' and hope people won't actually look at it?

 

I mean nothing personal against you, but it just seems like you're making an overly rigorous attempt to fix something that can't be fixed without anything other than sheer honesty and humility.

[stuck limo]

29 minutes ago, buonassi said:

okay... well that's a stretch @LHCommSquad and a far cry from a retraction.  Is this a common PR tactic?  Assert, then point to 'proof' and hope people won't actually look at it?

 

LH were sheerly honest through this whole thing. We actually did hope people looked at it, and they did. The members of the press have sided with LH on this and have agreed to review Stella and are very excited about it and have all given it high marks. We gave that document out to the public everywhere on forums and to individuals who asked and reviewers who asked us about the drama. Most people seemed to agree that we did not do what we were being accused of and that Ken's statement was indeed a form of soft retraction.

 

 

[Racerxnet]

As a newcomer to this forum, and without any stake in the game, all I can say is that after reading several posts regarding the issues with LH, I would not touch them with a 10ft pole. Any organization that can promise goods, collect millions, and piss it away, looks like any government in this world. CORRUPT! The people who gave monies in good faith deserve better, and whether time has passed or not, LH knew of their financial issues long before it became public. LH should have done the right thing prior to delving further into financial instability, knowing they were past the tipping point of being able to satisfy and deliver to ALL customers. 

 

MAK

[KeenObserver]

LHCommSquad

 

Just out of curiosity, are you related to Bob Stuart?

[Panelhead]

On 1/14/2019 at 11:00 AM, KeenObserver said:

LHCommSquad

 

Just out of curiosity, are you related to Bob Stuart?

  That is hard. Guys we were taken here. Some for a LOT of money.

  I fell prey to the “good money after bad” as I kept upgrading from a 139.00 dac to right at 900.00. The upgrades were in small increments, 25.00 to 100.00 steps. Each time I wondered if a product would appear. 

  How I received Geek Out’s and an Infinity was pure luck. Never participated in another crowd funding. Paying for products while they are on the drawing board is not how things work.

  Glad I figured this out before cables, USB dongles, amplifiers, streamers, and other items were available. 

 The non-working LPS4 was a dead giveaway. I can design and build good LPS. The non-working linear supplies people received made it apparent they were in over their heads.

  The firmware fiasco was another. Most companies have firmware that is usable in multiple products. The Pulse firmware changed depending on model, time frame, and luck. Sometimes the boards were mixed up and even LHL was not sure which version a unit required. 

[Ralf11]

On 1/8/2019 at 6:38 PM, Superdad said:

 

Since you asked:

Years ago--about the time when LH was running crowd-fleecing campaigns on near half a dozen product concepts while they were already a year late in delivering the simple Pulse DAC--I added up the gross (literally gross) amounts of all their Kickstarter and Indiegogo campaigns.  Came to just over $6 million at the time (though that did include the original GeekOut campaign, which went pretty well).

 

Dayum!!

 

I am gonna start a kickstarter for graphene battery super-duper-capacitors!!

[NOMBEDES]

Hey, I sent $100. to Neil Young for his gizmo Prono (sp?)  crowd funding!   But I got a T-Shirt and a signed Carnegie Hall concert poster.

In retrospect, I think I got a good deal.

 

 (I know I got a good deal when compared the scam described above)

 

[Jud]

3 hours ago, NOMBEDES said:

Hey, I sent $100. to Neil Young for his gizmo Prono (sp?)  crowd funding!   But I got a T-Shirt and a signed Carnegie Hall concert poster.

In retrospect, I think I got a good deal.

 

 (I know I got a good deal when compared the scam described above)

 

 

I got an actual Pono.  Works great.  Even better deal.  So even with all the changes Pono went through, they still managed to ship a fine product timely.

 

Amazing how so many companies manage to do that.

[stuck limo]

On 1/14/2019 at 11:00 AM, KeenObserver said:

LHCommSquad

 

Just out of curiosity, are you related to Bob Stuart?

 

Is that like Mikhail from SinglePower Audio?

 

EDIT: The Meridian Audio / MQA guy?

[NOMBEDES]

Thinking LH is giving China a bad name..........

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, NOMBEDES said:

Thinking LH is giving China a bad name..........

 

How is that? Light Harmonic is a USA company.  

And no one company's poor ethics can give a black-eye to an entire nation...

[PeterSt]

6 hours ago, Superdad said:

8 hours ago, NOMBEDES said:

Thinking LH is giving China a bad name..........

 

How is that? Light Harmonic is a USA company.

 

So that's how the US of A got in the state it is.

haha

[Superdad]

50 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

So that's how the US of A got in the state it is.

haha

 

LH Labs may be quite similar to our government.  Lots of promises followed by a partial shutdown.