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Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014


Message added by The Computer Audiophile

All those who contributed to the spreadsheet of losses - please check your email and Spam for email from: [email protected].

The deadline is Jan. 3rd to confirm that you will "join the complaint". To join you need to read the email and attachments and send back one document.

Happy New Year!

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The original Geek Out (which has performed beautifully for me for many years) was crowdfunded.

 

It showed me and others that LHL was capable of producing a good, inexpensive product through crowdfunding in a timely way.  So we went for the next crowdfunding offer.  Then of course they blew that all to hell with their subsequent non- (or terribly late and/or defective) products.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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  I was surprised to see that CEntrance is crowd funding. Does anyone have a link?

  I am a believer in them. They were top notch ten years ago. Still own several KRK Ergo units that they designed and built. A poor mans Lygndorf. Uses Room Perfect for DRC. 

  I have three Geekouts and an Infinity from LH Labs. Consider this more luck than a good decision.

 

2012 Mac Mini, i5 - 2.5 GHz, 16 GB RAM. SSD,  PM/PV software, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre 4 channel interface. Daysequerra M4.0X Broadcast monitor., My_Ref Evolution rev a , Klipsch La Scala II, Blue Sky Sub 12

Clarett used as ADC for vinyl rips.

Corning Optical Thunderbolt cable used to connect computer to 4Pre. Dac fed by iFi iPower and Noise Trapper isolation transformer. 

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Really this is an age old story of those doing the real progressive work lacking funding while the money goes to something equivalent with women who walk out of the bathroom looking and behaving the same no matter how time or money in development/planning/marketing/delivery was spent in there.  :ph34r:

 

LH Labs is certainly making a good case for why funds with no proviso or even qualified management rarely find projects with great potential.  Why companies displaying slow growth and proven adaptability, but no chance of maturing into exponentially greater returns on investment, get turned down for commercial loans.  There is hardly a pulse much less the highly preferable racing heartbeat chart of buying low and selling high.  

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On 30.1.2018 at 9:54 PM, DESIGNonly said:

LH Labs replied me about my Geek Source Order, below is their response:

 

"We are currently working on the Source project. We are finishing up on the Signature Edition models, and then we will begin work on the regular editions. We'll keep updating everyone as those dates become available! If there's anything else, please let us know and keep following our IGG page for the latest updates. 

 
Jarek"
 
But the response does not commit anything to the product delivery time frame...
 

At least one of their lessons learnt from the past: don't mention anything you can't fulfill. 

 

I stopped counting how many times this and that should have been shipped. 

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22 hours ago, Panelhead said:

  I was surprised to see that CEntrance is crowd funding. Does anyone have a link?

  I am a believer in them. They were top notch ten years ago. Still own several KRK Ergo units that they designed and built. A poor mans Lygndorf. Uses Room Perfect for DRC. 

  I have three Geekouts and an Infinity from LH Labs. Consider this more luck than a good decision.

 

Please Google "Centrance audio indiegogo." They deserve good publicity!

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Just to give everyone heads up. LH Labs maybe writing to this forum as a result of a post I made in a different web site. The name of the LH Labs rep is Jarek. After observing him for several months, It is my guess that Larry Ho offered him a portion of LH Labs or plenty of $$ if he is able to contain bad publicity. We need answers from him, so let's try not to sound too angry (just my opinion).

 

Here is a copy of Jarek's post and my reply:

 

stuck limo said: 
LH is unfamiliar with this person.** If you can provide a name, a source for the quote, and any other information, that would be helpful.

The figures this person you quoted are not entirely accurate, as at many of the shows, only one person attends (not the "conservative" number of 3). As for the pricing of the exhibits, we don't have those prices yet, so we can't comment, and we haven't even locked down which events we are attending. On a third note, most or all of the exhibits are paid for with non-IGG money, from our other products we sell to generate income.
**He refers to an industry player in this forum who made an assessment of LH Lab's expenses on audio trade shows. 

 

Hi Jarek, I admire your thoroughness when asking me for details. Time after time, you have proven to me your intelligence and the fact that you are always one step ahead. I am truly hesitant to believe that you buy into Larry Ho's business history and it is my guess that you have chosen to be a part of it to its full extent. You are anything but sloppy and naive. 

I have no problem sharing with you the forum thread quoted. I would truly appreciate it if you returned us the favor by answering one simple question: How come LH Labs raised 30 times more money than they originally needed for the Vi Dac, Pulse, and Wave and they have not delivered the vast majority of them?  

You can find the forum thread by Googling the contents of the quote or "LH Labs. No delivery after 2.5 Years"

I wish you good luck with the highly educated and business savvy audiophiles and industry players in that forum. They await you. Many of them are waiting for their LH products.

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Bernard,

 

you know I´m by far not a LHL Labs fanboy anymore and I sympathize with your approach that something needs to be changed regarding Larry Ho´s behaviour towards us backers.

 

Nonetheless I think it´s not fair and appropriate to "bash" on Jarek. 

He was hired by Larry to support (in regards to communication to us backers as well to solve the ticket issues and the order status mayhem.).

 

Of course he gets paid by LHL (guess nobody would do this for free, or?) but I don´t assume this will be plenty of $$.

And bottomline is: he is just the mediator and is totally dependent on Larry Ho´s input. So Larry is the bloody bottleneck. He is the campaigner to whom the current situation should be addressed too and who should be made responsible.

 

Just my thoughts.

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15 minutes ago, marflao said:

Bernard,

 

you know I´m by far not a LHL Labs fanboy anymore and I sympathize with your approach that something needs to be changed regarding Larry Ho´s behaviour towards us backers.

 

Nonetheless I think it´s not fair and appropriate to "bash" on Jarek. 

He was hired by Larry to support (in regards to communication to us backers as well to solve the ticket issues and the order status mayhem.).

 

Of course he gets paid by LHL (guess nobody would do this for free, or?) but I don´t assume this will be plenty of $$.

And bottomline is: he is just the mediator and is totally dependent on Larry Ho´s input. So Larry is the bloody bottleneck. He is the campaigner to whom the current situation should be addressed too and who should be made responsible.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Hi there, we happen to have different opinions on Jarek's role in LH Labs. My company has a 70+ staff and I have never gotten nor forced anyone to work so many hours. Jarek's work hours match an entrepreneur's work hours. Ask yourself: Why would an intelligent, educated, hard working, charismatic, and well articulated individual put in so many hours into Larry Ho's company? Many companies would love to hire Jarek! Why would a highly qualified individual with spectacular work ethics choose Larry Ho as his 60+ hours week boss? You may still disagree with me, but those are just our opinions. Perhaps my post came across as me "bashing" Jarek, but my intention was just to state my opinion.

 

We should at least agree on the fact that when we are talking to Jarek we are talking to LH Labs. We should see Jarek as just a professional carrying out the job of embodying LH Labs (Larry Ho's) business voice. It is fine if you disagree :-)

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, plissken said:

This is an outfit that has a track record of not delivering. 

 

What are people actually expecting?

 

Not a lot. :)

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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33 minutes ago, mansr said:

I think you're showing some expectation bias there.

 

Yes - of course in this case it's based on actual experience. :)

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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1 hour ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

Fixed/clarified. (again)

 

Fair enough. We should leave speculation out and my assessment was based on speculation.

 

I have some questions for you and we will be enormously thankful if you can reply to them with factual info:

 

What % of the Geek Waves, Geek Pulses, and the Vi Dacs have you delivered so far? That is the % of the total number of such products purchased thru Indiegogo. LH Labs has raised around 5 million USD for these products and your crowdfunding goal was surpassed by a factor of 30 (meaning you raised 30 times more money than you originally claimed was enough in order to develop the products)

 

Thanks!

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19 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Hmmm... So does that mean they have a giant pile of cash from their Indiegogo campaigns that they don't touch for anything but the products they were pledged for?  If so, then why won't they issue refunds from that fund to all those who are asking?

Sorry, that line does not pass the smell test...O.o

 

It looks like they are running the Co. with the interest generated from the MILLIONS sitting in their bank account.

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I looked them up on Amazon. There were GO2 and a couple basic Pulse for sale. The Pulse was the price of a Gustard. 

  There was a listing for Infinity dacs. Out of stock, price was 1800.00. The listing  said charges will not be processed until unit is ready for shipment. 

  I would like to see if Amazon works like Indiegogo. Anyone know of anyone who ordered from Amazon?

  Also with a 1800.00 current available  dac, anyone willing to trade their Chord for mine?

 

2012 Mac Mini, i5 - 2.5 GHz, 16 GB RAM. SSD,  PM/PV software, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre 4 channel interface. Daysequerra M4.0X Broadcast monitor., My_Ref Evolution rev a , Klipsch La Scala II, Blue Sky Sub 12

Clarett used as ADC for vinyl rips.

Corning Optical Thunderbolt cable used to connect computer to 4Pre. Dac fed by iFi iPower and Noise Trapper isolation transformer. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/2/2018 at 10:28 PM, marflao said:

Yeah... especially since LHL has the impression that one/two handful backers are the only ones who are unsatisfied with the current situation and request refunds.

I'm guessing the silent majority realize lighting your hair on fire won't work, so we wait and watch. I've no interest in crowd funding since the LHL fiasco, BUT I had to go for the HiBy R6. I think just to restore my faith in the crowdfunding platform. My moment of self-satisfaction will be posting my Bye's to the LHL/Head-Fi thread with a pic of the "delivered earlier than promised" R6 sitting on the Indiegogo/LHL Geek Wave invoice from 2014 or whenever...

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Here is my stupid contribution: I paid about $50 for a future basic dac.  Over months I got a bunch of emails from some guy named "Gavin Fish."  Naturally since I *didn't know* Gavin Fish, I tossed them all as spam.  They never sent my dac, but offered to send a useless, overpriced USB cable instead.  I got pissed as hell for a while, bitched everywhere, and now they call my case "closed."  I only just wanted my promised dac or a refund, no interest.

The moral?  The company became as corrupt as sin.  But for a fledgling company seeking respect, NEVER send company emails under some shady contract to a guy named Fish or any other personal name.  Use your *company* name, Light Harmonic Labs or whatever.  Do this if you want to build an honest business, instead of ending with everybody calling your concern a den of thieves. 

Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position.

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