Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[noshortcuts]

Here's the last shipping update that I'm aware of, last updated Aug. 2016: http://lhlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/We Ship_Aug-9_update.png

[Cecil]

On 2/9/2019 at 12:12 PM, LHCommSquad said:

I asked Lee if he would be willing to moderate the Q&A Discussion with Larry, assuming it gets approved. If Lee responds and agrees, we'll hammer out the next steps and announce that. Barring that....we hopefully will be able to figure something else out.

 

Any progress on this, Jarek?

 

I think if Larry has any regard at all for his credibility he really does need to come out of hiding. His hiding only reinforces doubt about his reported intentions to eventually 'do the right thing'.  His strategy so far of hiding behind a mouthpiece who in reality knows very little of what is going on does nothing to appease those who have provided him with millions of dollars. In fact, all it does is inflames well deserved suspicion and mounting frustration. 

[noshortcuts]

On 2/8/2019 at 2:04 PM, LHCommSquad said:

...

 

The update was:

 

"There were a small number of people confused by the wording in the last update. We stated clearly: “Wave developer’s board”. A small number of people misinterpreted that to mean, “Wave developer’s Wave board” and insisted LHL was pulling a fast one or suggesting a development board was in fact an actual Wave beta board that fits into the Wave itself. This is an incorrect reading of the post. Indeed, this is the “Wave developer’s development board”, not an actual Wave board. We would have no need to try to suggest/pawn off (and it follows no logic paths) that a giant PCB was the Wave board, especially since we had already posted several pictures of the Wave boards themselves. On top of this, we also labeled the board pic as "Wave Dev Board" (ie: Wave Development Board).The original IGG post was also updated to reflect this clarification for any confused parties. Thanks."

 

...

 

So Jarek, why was the word "Wave" used at all to describe the baord? You are blaming the victims for not catching on to the symantics trick of "Wave developer board" vs "Wave developer Wave board". Seriously? It's just a developer's board, right? The reason people question LHL (and team's) honesty is that we are lied to regularly. It's that simple. I can find 100s of statements by LHL Team that are proven misleading and wrong. Lies by most standards.

 

Did everyone see this discussion of the Wave board update:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/geek-wave-final-development-discussion-aka-please-lord-let-it-ship.5300/page-15#post-242486

[Allan F]

On 2/8/2019 at 2:04 PM, LHCommSquad said:

"There were a small number of people confused by the wording in the last update. We stated clearly: “Wave developer’s board”. A small number of people misinterpreted that to mean, “Wave developer’s Wave board” and insisted LHL was pulling a fast one or suggesting a development board was in fact an actual Wave beta board that fits into the Wave itself. This is an incorrect reading of the post. Indeed, this is the “Wave developer’s development board”, not an actual Wave board. We would have no need to try to suggest/pawn off (and it follows no logic paths) that a giant PCB was the Wave board, especially since we had already posted several pictures of the Wave boards themselves. On top of this, we also labeled the board pic as "Wave Dev Board" (ie: Wave Development Board).The original IGG post was also updated to reflect this clarification for any confused parties. Thanks."

 

Is there anyone who can tell us what the above means in plain English? Unfortunately, Google Translate can't handle gobbledygook.

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, Allan F said:

Is there anyone who can tell us what the above means in plain English? Unfortunately, Google Translate can't handle gobbledygook.

 

But it can ! and it does it extremely well. So especially for you, Allan, here is the translation from the original Jarek with possible Polish influence to Dutch, back to English, from there to French and then back to "American" again:

 

"A small number of people were confused by the wording of the last update." We have clearly said "Wave Developer Council". A small number of people have misinterpreted it as: "Wave Panel of the developer" and insisted that LHL quickly sign one or suggest that a development board is actually a true beta tip from Wave that fits into the wave itself. This is an incorrect reading of the article. Indeed, it is the development card of the "Wave developer" and not a real Wave card. no need to try to suggest / disable (and this does not follow logical paths) that a gigantic PCB was the Wave panel, especially since we had already posted several pictures of Wave panels themselves. picture of table under the name "Wave Dev Board" (for example: Wave Development Board). The original message of the Intergovernmental Group on Intergovernmental Groups has also been updated to reflect this clarification for all confused parties.

 

To me it is clear that any council must be addressed in French. This works right out of the Intergovernmental Fake Box (IFB).

[buonassi]

2 hours ago, Cecil said:

I think if Larry has any regard at all for his credibility he really does need to come out of hiding. His hiding only reinforces doubt about his reported intentions to eventually 'do the right thing'. 

 

Agreed.  I consider this the climax of the entire movie.  Will he do the right thing here?  Or will he double down and seal his fate?  I really believe that if he does not take action now, any ventures related to (even peripherally) Larry Ho will fail because of consumer sentiment.  It will reach overseas and cross language barriers - oh yes it will.  The only way to save his career as a public audio hardware designer is to do this IMO:

 

1. apologize - first and foremost - and do it with humility
2. explain what went wrong - without lofting the blame onto someone else
3. explain where the money went - even if the funds were used inconsistently with the IGG contractual terms
4. explain what he will do to fix it - even if he can't do anything, then he should say that and not make any promises he can't keep

Honesty is his only way out of it.  If he does this, I believe the rest of the market (who didn't get screwed already) would still purchase his future products.  But, they'd stay away from crowdfunding  .  The forums would slowly stop talking about it and he'd have a chance....a good chance at making it in this biz.  And he may even pick up a few proponents if his character and integrity come out intact.  

 

He can't run and he can't hide if he wants to stay in the industry.  He may be a great engineer, but his inability/unwillingness to confront this is difficult for me to understand.  I simply don't get this guy's lack of self-preservation.  It's almost like he's nailing his coffin shut from the inside.  If that makes sense?

[marflao]

Guess we all wish that he will be upfront with us, that he did his lessons learnt from the past. 

And I would also appreciate if this kind of video will happen (although we asked for it in the past already). 

 

But sometimes I have the feeling (from the "news" spread via Jarek) that he lives in his own world and doesn't realize the reality. 

[Jud]

33 minutes ago, buonassi said:

He may be a great engineer, but his inability/unwillingness to confront this is difficult for me to understand.  I simply don't get this guy's lack of self-preservation.  It's almost like he's nailing his coffin shut from the inside.  If that makes sense?

 

If you go back and read his speaker's bio from the Taiwan conference that I linked and quoted upthread, he has experience in businesses going under.  This would just be one more, and by far not the shortest lived.

[MikeyFresh]

30 minutes ago, Jud said:

he has experience in businesses going under.

 

A pattern evidently.

[Superdad]

41 minutes ago, Jud said:

...he has experience in businesses going under.  This would just be one more, and by far not the shortest lived.

 

Any casinos in his past?  I hear those are hard to drive under.  Oh wait... 

[Allan F]

"I am not a crook".

Richard Nixon Larry Ho

 

[noshortcuts]

4 hours ago, Allan F said:

"I am not a crook".

Richard Nixon Larry Ho

 

"Every day it becomes increasingly clear that Sarah Huckabee Sanders (Jarek) is less of a press secretary and more of a mouthpiece for the Trump administration's (LHL's) steady stream of propaganda. She (He) defends the president's (Larry's) most indefensible statements — ... — scolds reporters (funding contributors) for doing their job (that would be standing up to the powerful (Larry and LHL who have their money which was given in good faith)), and keeps briefings short, infrequent, and almost devoid of useful information."

[Allan F]

2 hours ago, noshortcuts said:

"Every day it becomes increasingly clear that Sarah Huckabee Sanders (Jarek) is less of a press secretary and more of a mouthpiece for the Trump administration's (LHL's) steady stream of propaganda. She (He) defends the president's (Larry's) most indefensible statements — ... — scolds reporters (funding contributors) for doing their job (that would be standing up to the powerful (Larry and LHL who have their money which was given in good faith)), and keeps briefings short, infrequent, and almost devoid of useful information."

-original passage from The Worst Lies Sarah Huckabee Sanders Has Told by Natalie Gontcharova of Refinery29.com

[noshortcuts]

Please join the effort to document all money sent to LHL on the Indiegogo platform for products that remain undelivered . The assembled data can be forwarded with a complaint to the California State Attorney's Office for legal action.

 

Bump for the cause:

-----------

marflao said:

alright...here we go.

 

Sheet has been created: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vE7_LByDDY6w8J-E-l4njfkvXcggTasrG90z11swJww/edit?usp=sharing

 

In case you want to be part of this sheet pls send me an email to defraudedbylhl at gmail dot com with the following  details:

- username (as mentioned.. it is hidden)

- "your" forum where you use the username

- from which continent you are

- which LHL device(s) you have backed and

- how much you paid for each backed device.

 

Cheers,

M.

[Blake]

Shocking!!!  No further response by Larry or Jarek.  They are hoping we all just go away.  

 

I just posted a thread over on SBAF, directing people to this thread.

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/lh-labs-never-received-your-crowd-funded-product.7452/#post-245139

 

 

 

[Cecil]

Again, any progress on the Larry Q&A, Jarek?

[stuck limo]

13 minutes ago, Cecil said:

Again, any progress on the Larry Q&A, Jarek?

 

Larry tentatively agreed to the interview. I haven't heard back from Lee, which is why I didn't post an update yet. 

8 hours ago, Blake said:

Shocking!!!  No further response by Larry or Jarek.  They are hoping we all just go away.  

 

No, we honestly had no such discussion about the backers going away. I went away over the weekend though. 

 

BTW, thanks to those of you from CA who have privately penned me very nice, open dialogue notes regarding the LH Labs situation. You are very much appreciated. 

[noshortcuts]

Interview Question #1: Where is our money?

Interview Question #2: Where exactly does your bookkeeping stand? (Who paid what and which upgrades? How much each paid and when? Addresses? Past communications and tickets? Etc.)

Interview Question #3: Will any more product be delivered? Plus, obvious follow up clarifications....

• If so,
  • What exactly will be delivered? (not just "Wave" but which models, not just Vi, but which variations, etc.)
  • And How? (which Team, which factory, etc.)
  • And Where? (USA/Asia/Canada/etc.)
  • And to Whom? (everybody paid, everybody deserves to know)
  • And When? (like, really)
• If not, (for any and all that can't be answered affirmatively above), Where's our money?

Interview Question #4: ___________________________________________________________

[mansr]

[Kyhl]

8 hours ago, noshortcuts said:

Interview Question #1: Where is our money?

Interview Question #2: Where exactly does your bookkeeping stand? (Who paid what and which upgrades? How much each paid and when? Addresses? Past communications and tickets? Etc.)

Interview Question #3: Will any more product be delivered? Plus, obvious follow up clarifications....

• If so,
  • What exactly will be delivered? (not just "Wave" but which models, not just Vi, but which variations, etc.)
  • And How? (which Team, which factory, etc.)
  • And Where? (USA/Asia/Canada/etc.)
  • And to Whom? (everybody paid, everybody deserves to know)
  • And When? (like, really)
• If not, (for any and all that can't be answered affirmatively above), Where's our money?

Interview Question #4: ___________________________________________________________

I would be shocked if LeeS agreed to ask hard questions such as these.  It is a lose lose for him.

 

His outcome.

1. He asks these questions and loses access to demo gear from other manufacturers for playing hardball.  LeeS likes being buddy buddy to manufacturers.  Why would he risk this?
2. He doesn't ask these question and he gets skewered again in the forums.  Although, based on his previous posts he probably doesn't care about this point.

Which is why Jarek purposefully asked LeeS in the first place.  It also explains why Jarek received lots of "funny" feedback when he first floated the idea.  The whole thing would be a joke that doesn't help the consumers.

 

 

Full disclosure, I have no financial interest in the outcome of this process.  From the sideline I do enjoy watching the apologist squirm.

 

[Samuel T Cogley]

There has to be some back channel communication between Scoggins and LHL, probably Larry himself.

 

Scoggins would start the "interview" with something like, "talk about all the new tech that LH/LHL has in the pipeline".  I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the crowdfunding debacle would be broached like this, "does it make you sad that a few disgruntled customers trolls have hurt LHL's reputation?"

 

There's a reason Larry wants Scoggins to be the interviewer.  No one has offered as many keystrokes of praise to Gavin Fish and Larry Ho as Lee Scoggins.  If this actually pans out, it will be the clearest indication yet that Larry refuses to face his epic and dismal failures and continues to shirk responsibility.

 

It might be entertaining to some, but real people have lost real money.  And Scoggins should really think about the downsides of raising his profile on the backs of those people.  If his reputation as a shill is persistent now, imagine how pervasive it would be after an event like that!

 

[Blake]

@LHCommSquad,

 

I am sure many people appreciate your efforts over the last few years, keeping a "dialogue" going between Larry Ho and his victims. 

 

You have written quite a lot in the various fora over the last few years but the fact remains, we still don't have the promised products and we still don't have our money.  So at the end of the day, none of what you write means anything and is simply window dressing unless you can produce results.  

 

Can you produce results, or will it continue to be the status quo of continued delay, meaningless "updates" and deflections, with occasional apologies sprinkled in?  

 

Apparently you have Larry's ear.  Why not use your powers of persuasion to convince him to provide refunds?

 

 

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Kyhl said:

would be shocked if LeeS agreed to ask hard questions such as these.  It is a lose lose for him.

 

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

There has to be some back channel communication between Scoggins and LHL, probably Larry himself.

 

I think all such speculation is unnecessary, unhelpful, and ultimately useless.  If the interview takes place, submit proposed questions if you wish to do so, and make of the actual questions and answers what you will. Criticizing a fellow forum member on the basis of speculation about current or even future conduct, no matter how often you disagree on various topics (and I often do disagree with Lee), seems to me to be an unpleasant way to waste time.  

 

And it distracts from what we're trying to accomplish, which is to make progress toward getting at least some money back.

[PorkChop]

Maintaining public pressure to hold Larry accountable is all well and good. Maybe this proposed interview is better than nothing, but don't expect the outcome to be anything but the same excuses/justifications we've received in written form. Why would that change just because the words are delivered in verbal form?  I/other backers have provided emphatic reality checks over the years as the Wave campaign was clearly going off the rails.  Instead of valuing this feedback, it was treated with contempt.

 

Larry Ho lives in a dream world inside his own mind. Now combine that with the stubbornness of thinking "I always know best" and never admitting to, or learning from, mistakes. We're dealing with a leopard who can't change their spots.  Sorry to be cynical; I am just cautioning against setting too high an expectation.

[Samuel T Cogley]

27 minutes ago, Jud said:

I think all such speculation is unnecessary, unhelpful, and ultimately useless.

 

I always appreciate your "adult in the room" prose, Jud. 👍