Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[Jud]

Some of the communications would invite skepticism even if they weren't about a product that was supposed to be delivered nearly 4 years ago.  One memorable update said (1) All the various "perks" were being consolidated into just a few (4?) Geek Wave models in order to bring some rationality to the design and manufacturing process; (2) everyone would get at least all the perks he or she had paid for, if not more; and yet (3) people who had paid more than others would indeed get more than others.

 

It reminds one of Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average.

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

Jud made it sound as if the only photo was this:

 

" one of a "Wave development board," which as the update mentions, isn't actually a Wave board but a board the team uses to develop software for devices like the Wave.  The photo is of only part of a board, purportedly to protect company confidentiality."

 

 

When in fact, we released another picture as well:

 

 

Members of Head-Fi and your forum accused us of displaying or representing the first picture as an actual Wave board instead of the Wave Developer's Development board. The Wave board itself is the white board in the second photo. We at no time indicated or represented the blue board as the Wave board, contrary to certain backers' opinions or thought processes.

You know what would make people feel good? A photo of a production line or a photo of products in boxes waiting to be shipped. Photos of a couple boards could be made by just about anyone and they really don't mean anything.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, LHCommSquad said:

On that note, it appears there's an atmosphere of distrust from the backers

Ha! I wonder why?

[stuck limo]

19 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

The last official IGG update for the Vi DAC was SEPTEMBER 5, 2018.   Poor Larry, getting harassed on the forums by people who gave him money for nothing.

 

 

 

I was personally harassed via PM the other day. You know who and what I'm referring to. I've also been personally harassed in public on the forums. It gets real tiresome, real quick. There's a respectful way to conduct questions; this being the internet though, most people just keyboard warrior up and create an atmosphere of hostility.

 

Fortunately, I have run into people on the forums who a) intensely dislike LH Labs and Larry but are very respectful in their approach.

 

Also, from what I understand, that's why Larry submerged and left the forums. He would get attacked no matter what he said or did. So he just went back to work behind the scenes.

[stuck limo]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You know what would make people feel good? A photo of a production line or a photo of products in boxes waiting to be shipped. Photos of a couple boards could be made by just about anyone and they really don't mean anything.

 

It really wouldn't matter at this point. I agree with you; a picture of the production line would be great. Boxes shipping would be great. People would still just call out conspiracy theories. But yes, I 100% agree with you, generally speaking.

[Blake]

2 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

I was personally harassed via PM the other day. You know who and what I'm referring to. I've also been personally harassed in public on the forums. It gets real tiresome, real quick. There's a respectful way to conduct questions; this being the internet though, most people just keyboard warrior up and create an atmosphere of hostility.

 

Fortunately, I have run into people on the forums who a) intensely dislike LH Labs and Larry but are very respectful in their approach.

LHCommSquad

Replied: January 31

At this point there was no counter-offer and refunds are not an option at this point. That doesn't mean they're not being considered, just not offered yet. I'm sorry about that. I understand the frustration.

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Blake

Replied: 21 hours ago

How does Larry feel about serving a few years in jail?

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LHCommSquad

Replied: 21 hours ago

Hi Blake,

 

I don't know his thoughts on that, and I personally find your question (to me) offensive and harassment. I am open to discussing your orders, campaign plans, etc. However, I will not be discussing "Larry's personal thoughts on spending a few years in jail" or "being sued" or anything of that nature. Please refrain from contacting me again over these matters.

 

Jarek

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Blake

Replied: 4 hours ago

Jarek, my comment was not directed at you, but I apologize that it offended you.  As I mentioned earlier, you are not to blame for Larry's unethical behavior.

[stuck limo]

@Blake I certainly wasn't going to out you on that due to privacy reasons, but OK. Anything else  you would like to "out" about our private conversation?

[Jud]

7 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

Jud made it sound as if the only photo was this:

 

" one of a "Wave development board," which as the update mentions, isn't actually a Wave board but a board the team uses to develop software for devices like the Wave.  The photo is of only part of a board, purportedly to protect company confidentiality."

 

 

When in fact, we released another picture as well:

 

 

Members of Head-Fi and your forum accused us of displaying or representing the first picture as an actual Wave board instead of the Wave Developer's Development board. The Wave board itself is the white board in the second photo. We at no time indicated or represented the blue board as the Wave board, contrary to certain backers' opinions or thought processes.

 

 

You accusing me of dishonesty is rich.  (See why I've got you on ignore?  I saw your post because it was quoted by Chris.)

 

The 1/23/19 update #179 in my email shows 2 (and only 2) attachments, one of the team, the other of the "development board," just as I said.  I'll be quite happy to forward it to you.

 

You then go on in your comment above to complain that people accused you of trying to pass this off as a Wave board (which I was careful to note the update said it wasn't).  But maybe someone ought to have said "a board we use to develop Wave software" rather than a "development board," or perhaps shouldn't have bothered with a photo of this board at all, since it's just as significant as me showing you a photo of the computer I typed this on, i.e., not.  You try to make these "updates" about pretty much nothing seem like progress, and then complain when people misconstrue the phrase "development board."

[stuck limo]

13 minutes ago, Jud said:

You then go on in your comment above to complain that people accused you of trying to pass this off as a Wave board (which I was careful to note the update said it wasn't).  But maybe someone ought to have said "a board we use to develop Wave software" rather than a "development board," or perhaps shouldn't have bothered with a photo of this board at all, since it's just as significant as me showing you a photo of the computer I typed this on, i.e., not.  You try to make these "updates" about pretty much nothing seem like progress, and then complain when people misconstrue the phrase "development board."

 

We eventually had to update that due to certain backers, and I appreciate your mentioning it wasn't actually the Wave board and that we mentioned it. Therefore, I'll switch that to "Jud unintentionally made it sound as if" and I'll assume there was no ill intent there.

 

Either way, all people who complained about the initial update got the updated information with second information. (it was just Head-Fi and CA and SBAF members)

 

The update was:

 

"There were a small number of people confused by the wording in the last update. We stated clearly: “Wave developer’s board”. A small number of people misinterpreted that to mean, “Wave developer’s Wave board” and insisted LHL was pulling a fast one or suggesting a development board was in fact an actual Wave beta board that fits into the Wave itself. This is an incorrect reading of the post. Indeed, this is the “Wave developer’s development board”, not an actual Wave board. We would have no need to try to suggest/pawn off (and it follows no logic paths) that a giant PCB was the Wave board, especially since we had already posted several pictures of the Wave boards themselves. On top of this, we also labeled the board pic as "Wave Dev Board" (ie: Wave Development Board).The original IGG post was also updated to reflect this clarification for any confused parties. Thanks."

 

No hard feelings towards you. Everyone is testy around here, reasonably and unreasonably.

[Blake]

18 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

Also, from what I understand, that's why Larry submerged and left the forums. He would get attacked no matter what he said or did. So he just went back to work behind the scenes.

 

What a great business leader.  Take money, stick head in the sand, hope it all goes away.

 

[stuck limo]

13 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

What a great business leader.  Take money, stick head in the sand, hope it all goes away.

 

 

That completely ignores what I just said. You can't argue or reason or discuss things with people who are intent to destroy you at all costs, regardless of whatever you did or didn't do wrong. (and no one is claiming LH Labs wasn't at fault here)

[Jud]

14 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

What a great business leader.  Take money, stick head in the sand, hope it all goes away.

 

 

I still remember how surprised Bernie Madoff looked when one of his victims shoved him outside a courtroom before being escorted away.  He'd cheated people out of their money, but was shocked they'd actually be offended.

 

No, I'm not comparing LH to Madoff.  But really, taking millions of dollars in return for nothing, then feeling put-upon when people mind?

 

Jarek has certainly taken on a thankless task (though I assume he's being paid - hope he didn't agree to work in return for future promised product delivery!  😲).  He's got to cope with trying to do communications, when all any of us want to hear from LHL is about the refunds they won't provide.

[Blake]

Just now, LHCommSquad said:

 

That completely ignores what I just said. You can't argue or reason or discuss things with people who are intent to destroy you at all costs.

 

Sure.  How about you ignoring the hard questions and simply deflecting whenever it suits you?

 

What is the specific reason Larry won't provide refunds?    Come on.  This is where you resort to your tried and true "I only know what Larry tells me".  

[stuck limo]

8 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Sure.  How about you ignoring the hard questions and simply deflecting whenever it suits you?

 

What is the specific reason Larry won't provide refunds?    Come on.  This is where you resort to your tried and true "I only know what Larry tells me".  

 

It could be any number of reasons. I can only speculate and I won't do that publicly, since someone would take what I said either "literally" or twist them in intent. I've been given no exact, definitive answer. I've been given various reasons, all somewhat reasonable, but YMMV.  My guess is it's a combination of reasons, maybe all reasonable, maybe not all reasonable.

 

Regardless of what you guys think, I do work in the background to get you guys what you paid for or want. Sometimes it works; sometimes not.

[mansr]

52 minutes ago, Blake said:

Poor Larry, getting harassed on the forums by people who gave him money for nothing.

He's obviously upset about not having received any chicks for free.

[Blake]

4 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

But really, taking millions of dollars in return for nothing, then feeling put-upon when people mind?

 

 

Exactly, then also having an attitude about it? 

 

He represents the guy who stole our money.  How does he think a normal, reasonable person would react to this mess?  

 

"Oh, you took my $3,500 back in MARCH OF 2015.  The last nonsense update was in SEPTEMBER OF 2018.  Oh well, enjoy my money Larry, you deserve it!"

 

 

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

Regardless of what you guys think, I do work in the background to get you guys what you paid for or want. Sometimes it works; sometimes not.

Sure. For all we know, you could be Larry.

[stuck limo]

4 minutes ago, mansr said:

Sure. For all we know, you could be Larry.

 

I've heard that conspiracy before. (I'm not, and @marflao knows it)

 

Another conspiracy had me as a co-owner, another as a silent investor, another as not even really working for them.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, LHCommSquad said:

I've heard that conspiracy before. (I'm not, and @marflao knows it)

Then, clearly, you are someone hired by Larry to do damage control. Here's a hint: it ain't working.

[Superdad]

24 minutes ago, mansr said:

He's obviously upset about not having received any chicks for free.

 

And yet he clearly is not in Dire Straits the way some of the campaign backers are.

[mansr]

10 minutes ago, Superdad said:

And yet he clearly is not in Dire Straits the way some of the campaign backers are.

Thanks to their generous donations.

[EdmontonCanuck]

Jarek, why don't you ask Larry if he'd be willing to participate in a Skype interview with a neutral party, someone who hasn't contributed to any of the LHL campaigns and would be courteous and respectful (I nominate Chris C. if he'd be willing to do it) and it could be published here. We could submit a list of potential questions to be asked, and I'd trust Chris (or whomever) being able to pick and choose the questions that he felt got to the heart of our concerns, and  also give Larry a chance to put forward any information or news that would give the backers some hope that things might eventually make a turn for the better. 

 

Do you think he'd go for that?

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, EdmontonCanuck said:

Do you think he'd go for that?

Do you think Donald Trump would go for a casual segment together with Robert Mueller hosted by John Oliver?

[stuck limo]

5 minutes ago, mansr said:

Do you think Donald Trump would go for a casual segment together with Robert Mueller hosted by John Oliver?

 

I'm dying. Extremely accurate.

 

Absolutely no offense to Chris, but he's kind of shown himself to be not 100% neutral on the matter. On top of that, I don't think it would ever happen regardless of whether it was Chris or not, but I'll pass that idea along. I personally think it's great. I've been pushing for more Q&As myself actually, either live or via updates.

[spyderman]

17 minutes ago, EdmontonCanuck said:

Jarek, why don't you ask Larry if he'd be willing to participate in a Skype interview with a neutral party, someone who hasn't contributed to any of the LHL campaigns and would be courteous and respectful (I nominate Chris C. if he'd be willing to do it) and it could be published here. We could submit a list of potential questions to be asked, and I'd trust Chris (or whomever) being able to pick and choose the questions that he felt got to the heart of our concerns, and  also give Larry a chance to put forward any information or news that would give the backers some hope that things might eventually make a turn for the better. 

 

Do you think he'd go for that? 

 

Better yet, details explaining to IGG LH Labs backers as to how their money was spent, in a YouTube video.