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Mac OS Sierra and DAC problems?


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I stumbled onto this in another forum. It seems that some people who use a Mac as a music server, upon installing Sierra OS, their Mac no longer recognized their DAC. Something with Sierra and how it operates USB ports renders some DACs useless.

 

https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/65232

 

http://www.mac-forums.com/os-x-operating-system/337540-usb-audio-output-dac-sierra-10-12-1-a.html

 

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=45887&hilit=sierra

 

I am still running El Capitan on my Mac Mini. I will not "upgrade" to Sierra because I have no idea if my Rega DAC R will work with it. But, if I have to reinstall the OS for some reason, or buy a new Mac Mini, it will most likely have Sierra :(

 

I would like to hear from Mac users running a Mac with Sierra and their model of DAC. Of course, I would like to know if Sierra is compatible with my Rega DAC R. But, if people using Sierra post and name their DAC, and if it works or not, the thread could be helpful to others who wonder if they should install Sierra or not.

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5 hours ago, Indydan said:

I am still running El Capitan on my Mac Mini. I will not "upgrade" to Sierra because I have no idea if my Rega DAC R will work with it. But, if I have to reinstall the OS for some reason, or buy a new Mac Mini, it will most likely have Sierra :(

 

You don't have to use Sierra, even on a new Mac. Everyone should make a bootable backup of their old OSX on external media. I think it goes without saying that this is as important as having backups of your music library.

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7 hours ago, Indydan said:

I would like to hear from Mac users running a Mac with Sierra and their model of DAC.

I have used all versions of Sierra, now using 10.12.4, without any issues so far.

 

Computers/DAC combinations:

- mini i7quad (2012) + EmmLabs XDS1v2

- Mac Pro tower (2010) + Dragonfly Red / Fiio DAC / Ray Samuels Predator 

- MacBook Pro Touchbar 13" + Dragonfly Red

 

No issues with any of these combinations.

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

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BTW... Read some of those links:

 

Apple link: NO USB devices work for this user. There seems to be a few other reports with USB devices generally. Not a common problem certainly.

 

Mac-forums: Seems to be a one-off.

 

Canuck: Also one off. A poster says there are 50+ DACs with issues - provides NO references. 

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

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7 hours ago, wwaldmanfan said:

 

You don't have to use Sierra, even on a new Mac. Everyone should make a bootable backup of their old OSX on external media. I think it goes without saying that this is as important as having backups of your music library.

Agreed. But as a last resort, I prefer to know if I could use Sierra.

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"Computer Audio" is for the hobbyist and or a person with a strong computer science background.

Digital Audio is for the folks who can afford a dedicated streamer. (1)

Apple "upgrades" are not.(2)

 

(1) The digital audiophile will live much longer, because he will avoid the stress which comes with computer audio.

(2)  Every time some 22 year old Apple code monkey codes a new OS, we lose a few DACs.   

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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After return from many months trip to India found out newest HQP update does not work with Yosemite OS on mac mini. Ok, after slight pause current version of Sierra was downloaded and installed. Result: HQP sounds better than ever before. Some minor but irritating bugs gone away. No issues at the end of two days. 

 

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2 hours ago, wgscott said:

The delightful irony with this is it often comes down to a problem with boutique USB cables not being recognized due to lack of standards compliance.

 

If a Mac and DAC work fine with an older Mac OS, then stop working when one installs Sierra, the cable is not at fault. 

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18 hours ago, NOMBEDES said:

"Computer Audio" is for the hobbyist and or a person with a strong computer science background.

Digital Audio is for the folks who can afford a dedicated streamer. (1)

Apple "upgrades" are not.(2)

 

(1) The digital audiophile will live much longer, because he will avoid the stress which comes with computer audio.

(2)  Every time some 22 year old Apple code monkey codes a new OS, we lose a few DACs.   

 

Assuming you're speaking about yourself when you say, "person with a strong computer science background", I'm surprised that you would go anywhere near the ad hominem "code monkey".  Maybe you mean, "person who used to work in IT who is now retired".

 

After reading about this in some detail, it would seem there's a good likelihood the root cause of these issues is Apple's "System Integrity Protection".  Older drivers that are not blessed by Apple's SIP framework will not load at boot time, making the device inaccessible.  There are ways to temporarily disable SIP, install the legacy driver, then re-enable SIP.  Essentially, you have to boot the recovery partition, launch a terminal window, type "csrutil disable", reboot, install the driver, boot into recovery again, this time type "csrutil enable", then reboot yet again.  If that's too complex for some, consider getting someone a little more knowledgeable about IT to help.

 

Apple gives away major OS upgrades in an attempt to trigger widespread adoption quickly and it mostly works.  Except of course if you've been bitten by this in the past (and I know I have with hardware and software compatibility).

 

While I mostly agree that a Linux-based "dedicated streamer" can be somewhat inexpensive and reliable, I don't think it helps our (meaning computer audiophiles) community to throw shade at the people using Apple hardware.  Look at the Audirvana+ thread (for example).  Every one of those people is a Mac user.

 

I totally agree with @mjb that the best practice is to clone your environment with something like Carbon Copy Cloner, upgrade THAT, and see how it works.  Either that, or make sure you have a good, current Time Machine backup that you can revert to if there are issues after the upgrade.  If you use your Mac for things other than audio, and you might want newer software only available in a newer OS version, then of course, you will have to make some potentially hard choices.

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31 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

I totally agree with @mjb that the best practice is to clone your environment with something like Carbon Copy Cloner, upgrade THAT, and see how it works.  Either that, or make sure you have a good, current Time Machine backup that you can revert to if there are issues after the upgrade.  If you use your Mac for things other than audio, and you might want newer software only available in a newer OS version, then of course, you will have to make some potentially hard choices.

 I don't understand the idea that choosing a Mac OSX is a zero-sum game. Format your drive with two partitions. Install the new OSX on one half for your other work, and your old, reliable OSX and audio apps on the other partition. Worst case, you have to restart the computer to switch. On my MacBook Pro with SSD, that takes about 15 seconds.

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3 minutes ago, wwaldmanfan said:

 I don't understand the idea that choosing a Mac OSX is a zero-sum game. Format your drive with two partitions. Install the new OSX on one half for your other work, and your old, reliable OSX and audio apps on the other partition. Worst case, you have to restart the computer to switch. On my MacBook Pro with SSD, that takes about 15 seconds.

 

Having multiple boot partitions is the easiest way to enable multiple OS versions.  But in my experience, Disk Utility is more technical than a lot of Mac users can/want to deal with.  We also have to accept the "just works" crowd.

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31 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

Each iteration of OS X tightens up standards compliance (and becomes more fascistic with respect to things like signed kernel extensions, adherence to putting third-party extensions in /Library/Extensions rather that /System/Library/Extensions, and so on).  In other words, it works with fewer cables, fewer kernel extensions, and so on, by design.  (I'm not defending this decision by the way, and I disable SIP as a matter of policy, and I have not "upgraded" most of my computers to 10.12.)

 

I mostly agree with this.  It seems Apple is inching closer to making MacOS like iOS, where one day, it may be necessary to "jailbreak" (if it's even possible by then) Apple PCs to install "unblessed" code.

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Sam T. Cogley states:  I'm surprised that you would go anywhere near the ad hominem "code monkey".  Maybe you mean, "person who used to work in IT who is now retired".

 

Well, I did not mean any disrespect to the monkey.  But I had to sell my W4Sound DAC1, at a nice loss, when it stopped working after a SOMEONE at Cupertino screwed up an "upgrade"!  Poor old W4Sound could not get a diver to work for over 2 months.  As I say, don't use a computer for audio unless you are a smart guy like wgscott or ST Cogley, or mjb.  Smart enough to put the so called upgrade on a partition or a SD Card and test before full installation.   Many people may not think to do this or not be skilled in such like arts.  Sad thing is, it should be easy to enjoy computer audio, and, in some cases it is not.

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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I tried upgrading to OSX 10.12.4 last week and my AVM V30 DAC was not recognized anymore. Not by the OS, not by iTunes, Audirvana and also not by Roon. Downgrading back to 10.12.3 solved the issue. Could have been a one off problem or me just being sleepy and overseeing something, but I don't dare upgrading again...

Stereo: Mac Mini i7 2011 • Roon • Tidal • Cambridge CXC • Esoteric D-07 • Hypex nCore 400 • Dynaudio S 3.4 LE • Surround: in the car

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17 minutes ago, NOMBEDES said:

Sam T. Cogley states:  I'm surprised that you would go anywhere near the ad hominem "code monkey".  Maybe you mean, "person who used to work in IT who is now retired".

 

Well, I did not mean any disrespect to the monkey.  But I had to sell my W4Sound DAC1, at a nice loss, when it stopped working after a SOMEONE at Cupertino screwed up an "upgrade"!  Poor old W4Sound could not get a diver to work for over 2 months.  As I say, don't use a computer for audio unless you are a smart guy like wgscott or ST Cogley, or mjb.  Smart enough to put the so called upgrade on a partition or a SD Card and test before full installation.   Many people may not think to do this or not be skilled in such like arts.  Sad thing is, it should be easy to enjoy computer audio, and, in some cases it is not.

 

Just to bring to your attention that the whole music industry {the industry i work in} uses computers to create the music we listen to now. The majority of which are Apple.

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1 minute ago, afgverhart said:

I tried upgrading to OSX 10.12.4 last week and my AVM V30 DAC was not recognized anymore. Not by the OS, not by iTunes, Audirvana and also not by Roon. Downgrading back to 10.12.3 solved the issue. Could have been a one off problem or me just being sleepy and overseeing something, but I don't dare upgrading again...

 

I feel your pain.  This has been a long term problem with upgrades and improvements.  How often have you run into a business or website which is off line because they attempted to install new software.   Indeed I am not talking about a local mom and pop store.  Some rather big names in banking and other major commerce sites have had problems of this nature. 

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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On 4/2/2017 at 1:29 PM, Gonzbull said:

 

Just to bring to your attention that the whole music industry {the industry i work in} uses computers to create the music we listen to now. The majority of which are Apple.

 

 

LOL:  I think you have made my point!

Listen to "Suite Judy Blue Eyes" (CS&N) and then listen to the dreck which passes for (popular) music today.

 

More to the point, there is a big difference between someone in the music industry using creative computer tools to produce and record music and some poor smuck attempting to keep his home system running in the face of constant interference from AAPL et al.

 

 

 

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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On 4/2/2017 at 1:09 PM, NOMBEDES said:

Sam T. Cogley states:  I'm surprised that you would go anywhere near the ad hominem "code monkey".  Maybe you mean, "person who used to work in IT who is now retired".

 

Well, I did not mean any disrespect to the monkey.  But I had to sell my W4Sound DAC1, at a nice loss, when it stopped working after a SOMEONE at Cupertino screwed up an "upgrade"!  Poor old W4Sound could not get a diver to work for over 2 months.  As I say, don't use a computer for audio unless you are a smart guy like wgscott or ST Cogley, or mjb.  Smart enough to put the so called upgrade on a partition or a SD Card and test before full installation.   Many people may not think to do this or not be skilled in such like arts.  Sad thing is, it should be easy to enjoy computer audio, and, in some cases it is not.

 

I didn't notice your DIY reply there...

 

All I can say is that despite what other curmudgeons might have told you, being a curmudgeon does not increase your popularity. :)

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