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Melvin

Mqa-cd ??

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It can be argued that the bit depth reduction, when playing on a non-MQA player, is usually inaudible because it's below the noise level of most real-world recordings. It can also be argued that the "deblurring" is equally inaudible, so why go to all this trouble?

 

I suppose they'd be likely to agree with the former and argue with the latter - just a guess. ;)

 

 

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Swings and roundabouts...

Any theoretical "improvement" of the sound due to MQA processing of the signal recorded on the CD is negated by the real bit depth reduction, because they have to use the lowest (I think 3) bits of the 16-bit samples to store a significantly lossy encoding of the high frequencies "folded" by the "origami" process. It can be argued that the bit depth reduction, when playing on a non-MQA player, is usually inaudible because it's below the noise level of most real-world recordings. It can also be argued that the "deblurring" is equally inaudible, so why go to all this trouble?

A lot of music is ok even at 10 bits, except during the occasional quiet bit or fade where the dither noise becomes evident. Recall that during development of the CD, Philips wanted to use 14 bits while Sony argued (and ultimately won) that 16 bits were required. The first Philips CD players used 4x oversampling with a 14-bit DAC resulting in equivalent performance.

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A lot of music is ok even at 10 bits, except during the occasional quiet bit or fade where the dither noise becomes evident. Recall that during development of the CD, Philips wanted to use 14 bits while Sony argued (and ultimately won) that 16 bits were required. The first Philips CD players used 4x oversampling with a 14-bit DAC resulting in equivalent performance.

 

Wouldn't 4x only gain you one bit? Making for 15 bit performance. Of course 16 bit DACs had such poor low level linearity then few of them really were better than 15 bits via oversampling 14 bit units.


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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Each doubling of sampling rate gets you 1 bit extra dynamic range equivalent.


"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

The forum would be a much better place if everyone were less convinced of how right they were.

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A lot of music is ok even at 10 bits, except during the occasional quiet bit or fade where the dither noise becomes evident. Recall that during development of the CD, Philips wanted to use 14 bits while Sony argued (and ultimately won) that 16 bits were required. The first Philips CD players used 4x oversampling with a 14-bit DAC resulting in equivalent performance.

 

Is ok or not, it is personal opinion. Maximal approach to enough correct claim is proper double blind test. But comparing of different number of bits is technically impossible, in my opinion. So I don't see ways to say how many bits are enough.


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Agreed and DSD downloads can be as much as 3 times the price of the same recording on SACD.

 

Especially with classical music. In addition I can sell or trade in any SACDs I don't like or I no longer care to listen to.

 

Ripping SACD's is really problematic (at least for the DSD portion)!

 

Not for me. Instead of ripping them, I just play my SACDs on my Yamaha Blu-ray / SACD universal player. My SACDs stay in perfect shape as I put them back in their cases after playing and I use resealable outsleeves to keep their jewel cases or digipaks in perfect like new condition. I actually prefer physical formats. My only reason for computer audio is for high resolution digital that is not available on SACD, 24/96 DVD or Blu-ray.

 

I actually prefer the sound of my mid-priced Yamaha Blu-ray / SACD universal player over my Teac DSD DAC despite the fact that the Teac DAC costs three times more. By all rights the Teac DAC should sound the best.

 

I also prefer listening to my Reference Recordings 24/176.4 HRx DVD Data Discs with WAV music files on them through my Yamaha universal player over my computer Teac DAC combo.

 

I do greatly prefer physical discs over hi-res downloads for other reasons besides enjoyment of the sound quality, including a physical item I can pull off the shelf to play and for the booklets. In the beginning most hi-res downloads offered PDF's of the program notes, however many are dropping their inclusion now.

Edited by Teresa

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

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I'm the other guy too (bought 25 CDs last month, admittedly in the Dutton clearance sale).

 

 

So MQA really is shaping up to be SACD or HDCD v2 (both of which are among my favourite varieties of "vaporware", especially on RR).

 

Interesting, but I can't work out if there is a point to MQA outside of streaming. People who are attached to their expensive legacy CD transports maybe, or looking to rip the CDs? But in latter case, why not just buy a flac download in the first place, assuming that MQA CDs will be not be budget items.

 

Sorry, I'm the other guy.

I have yet to buy a download, although my CD player is some thousand miles away in another country...

All of my music purchases are in the CD format, and mostly used.

 

And I have no interest in MQA.

 

R


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes

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On 3/17/2017 at 8:55 AM, Norton said:

 

I'm the other guy too (bought 25 CDs last month, admittedly in the Dutton clearance sale).

 

 

So MQA really is shaping up to be SACD or HDCD v2 (both of which are among my favourite varieties of "vaporware", especially on RR).

 

Interesting, but I can't work out if there is a point to MQA outside of streaming. People who are attached to their expensive legacy CD transports maybe, or looking to rip the CDs? But in latter case, why not just buy a flac download in the first place, assuming that MQA CDs will be not be budget items.

Norton,

SACD got past the vaporware stage and into the” is it commercially viable stage”. It is considered a commercial failure today. HDCD never got past the 5,000 mark even after Microsoft got ahold of it so it is vaporware. 10,000 albums is a very good place to draw a line in the sand. After all there still aren’t 16,000 hi-res albums and the discussion of whether hi-res can break into the mainstream was almost desperate last Friday at SXSW.

 

Last month I visited LMC Home Entertainment Ltd to see if they had any enthusiasm to MQA. I wondered what you would have thought sitting in a demo room filled with a million dollars of equipment and your reference recordings. I’d have bought you a couple of reasonably priced beverages (less than $20 each) to hear your opinion. It’s important to seek out opinions different than mine.

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Yo, amigos -

 

A newbie here, so be gentle, please.  I have a MacBook Pro (no CD drive) with an Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC (with MQA download installed).  I have an Oppo UDP-205 that I normally use as my "CD player."  

 

To get MQA off a CD, it would seem that I'd need to use a digital output from the Oppo into the MacBook Pro.  Then direct the MBP output to the Dragonfly for MQA decoding.

 

Now to the problems...  The Oppo has a USB input, but NOT a USB output.  The only digital outputs from the Oppo are the TOSLINK optical and the coaxial digital.  Unfortunately, the MBP has neither of these inputs.

 

So how do I get from the disc player to the MBP without stripping the MQA content?

 

Thanks!

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50 minutes ago, Boomzilla said:

Yo, amigos -

 

A newbie here, so be gentle, please.  I have a MacBook Pro (no CD drive) with an Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC (with MQA download installed).  I have an Oppo UDP-205 that I normally use as my "CD player."  

 

To get MQA off a CD, it would seem that I'd need to use a digital output from the Oppo into the MacBook Pro.  Then direct the MBP output to the Dragonfly for MQA decoding.

 

Now to the problems...  The Oppo has a USB input, but NOT a USB output.  The only digital outputs from the Oppo are the TOSLINK optical and the coaxial digital.  Unfortunately, the MBP has neither of these inputs.

 

So how do I get from the disc player to the MBP without stripping the MQA content?

 

Thanks!

 

Just rip the CD as you normally would using a lossless format.

 

 

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All,

 

I have the original Rebecca Pigeon CD, 24/96, 24/88.2 (like best), Bob Katz 24/176.4 and Chesky's 24/192 versions of this album.

 

I am really impressed by the sonics of the new MQA CD. David Chesky sent me a copy before it was released. I then went to amazon and bought 10 copies. I have sent them to musicians and recording engineers I support. Everyone is really impressed and you can really get a feeling of the differential that MQA can have on an audio track.

 

I played the track in iTunes as 16/44.1 then with Audirvana Plus and the difference is night and day.

 

Thanks,

Gordon

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8 minutes ago, Wavelength said:

All,

 

I have the original Rebecca Pigeon CD, 24/96, 24/88.2 (like best), Bob Katz 24/176.4 and Chesky's 24/192 versions of this album.

 

I am really impressed by the sonics of the new MQA CD. David Chesky sent me a copy before it was released. I then went to amazon and bought 10 copies. I have sent them to musicians and recording engineers I support. Everyone is really impressed and you can really get a feeling of the differential that MQA can have on an audio track.

 

I played the track in iTunes as 16/44.1 then with Audirvana Plus and the difference is night and day.

 

Thanks,

Gordon

Hi,

As a proposal - if mansr agrees, then is it possible to analyse the recording to see if there are harmonics.

 

I checked Rebecca Pidgeon and she plays guitar, so if there is a single string plucked on the guitar on the recording, which can be isolated, then audacity etc., can be used to perform an FFT on the sample.

 

If the track is also available as standard rebook, then it can be compared.

 

This is possible a substitute for tones not being available for MQA tracks.

 

Regards,

 

Shadders.

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1 hour ago, lucretius said:

 

Just rip the CD as you normally would using a lossless format.

 

 

So if i rip an MQA cd in Apple Lossless or flac, and playback digital outs into an mqa dac, will mqa still unfold?

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2 minutes ago, mansr said:

Send me some samples, and I'll see what I can do.

Hi mansr,

Thanks - i do not have the records - but if Wavelength were to send the requisite samples - we could see what is going on with the tomes.

Regards,

Shadders.

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2 hours ago, arcman said:

So if i rip an MQA cd in Apple Lossless or flac, and playback digital outs into an mqa dac, will mqa still unfold?

I believe so, since the MQA coding is part of the audio bit stream. However, I do not have an MQA CD to test.

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On March 17, 2017 at 5:03 AM, Melvin said:

Well isn't this interesting:

 

 

MQA-Encoded CDs? Yes! | Stereophile.com

OK, here's a question. Looks to me like what is needed is an MQA "decoder" box that takes the input from the SPDIF output of a standard CD player and outputs decoded MQA content also SPDIF. This means that such a decoder could be used with any DAC the user wishes to use. Does any such box exist? Are there any in the pipeline? I would be interested in buying such a stand-alone decoder.


George

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