iFi Audio iGalvanic3.0 - The Holy Grail of Computer Audio

[lmitche]

7 hours ago, mozes said:

@lmitche I can confirm your results. After reading your post, I removed the Baaske that I have on my main router and plugged it in front of my , so the chain now looks like this:

TP-Link 802n bridge>1 foot BJC Cat6>Baaske>1 foot BJC Cat 6a>RLI-1>Nimitra

 

I got a nice boost in sound when streaming Tidal, It seems I was wasting the Baaske all this time on my main router, it was doing nothing over there

 

Thanks for sharing this tip!

Mozes,

 

Happy to hear you could duplicate my results there.  FYI, I have two more isolation transformers to cover the cable modem and TV tuner. I find the whole house network is much more reliable and fast with these in place. There must be a ton of noise on the cable feed.

 

Funny, when I moved to the local hard disk config from the NAS based config, I removed the NAS from the music network, leaving a gap, and I just snapped the second EN70HD on to the first with the one foot cable.  I never thought about it much as I mistakenly ascribed the SQ benefits of the local disk, to the move of the local disk alone.  Later testing a new Ethernet cable I removed one of the EN70HDs and then realized where at least part of the benefit was coming from.

[asdf1000]

On 4/14/2017 at 5:43 AM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

 

Ethernet is inherently galvanically isolated. So it does not need an isolator.

 

Core issues are around Ethernet switches (where AV has very different requirements than standard networking) and possible repeaters to assure signal integrity.

 

Seeing the current state of the Ethernet AV market, with multiple competing and mutually incompatible standards, all of which use "streaming" mode protocols and are by far more bandwidth limited than USB. It is probably somewhat premature to declare Ethernet audio the end of all and USB/IEE1394 as dead. Time will tell.

 

1. DLNA, AVB, Dante, Ravenna to name the more mainstream audio ones

2. Streaming mode Ethernet is subject to the same problems as isochronous USB, namely guarantedd bandwidth but no re-transmission on error

 

Hi iFI or anyone here,

 

What are some examples of 'streaming mode Ethernet' mentioned above?

 

Cheers !

[mozes]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Mozes,

 

Happy to hear you could duplicate my results there.  FYI, I have two more isolation transformers to cover the cable modem and TV tuner. I find the whole house network is much more reliable and fast with these in place. There must be a ton of noise on the cable feed.

 

Funny, when I moved to the local hard disk config from the NAS based config, I removed the NAS from the music network, leaving a gap, and I just snapped the second EN70HD on to the first with the one foot cable.  I never thought about it much as I mistakenly ascribed the SQ benefits of the local disk, to the move of the local disk alone.  Later testing a new Ethernet cable I removed one of the EN70HDs and then realized where at least part of the benefit was coming from.

Sometimes we discover things by coincidence

I have a fiber cable coming to my house, but still the noise is there probably after it gets into the first ethernet converter 

[mozes]

5 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I think that you have just discovered a good place to experiment with your grounding box. The TP-Link bridge! ?

The TP-Link is plastic and has only one ethernet output, so I think I can't ground it

[Cornan]

16 minutes ago, mozes said:

The TP-Link is plastic and has only one ethernet output, so I think I can't ground it

 

A pity, that will make grounding tricky! ? 

 

Great with a fiber-optical input network connection. That might answers the question why the Baaske is better off uphill.

Does this mean you have a fiber-optical converter close to your router or is it a direct connection from the wall outlet to the router? I guess there is always something that could be done to improve that pre router connection if you start thinking about it! ?

For me having a satellite input to my router (plus living in an appartment where many share the same service provider) a DC blocker and better quality satellite cable pre my router have a great impact on SQ. 

 

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi iFI or anyone here,

 

What are some examples of 'streaming mode Ethernet' mentioned above?

 

Cheers !

 

1. DLNA, AVB, Dante, Ravenna to name the more mainstream audio ones.

 

I would say that other mainstream ones is also UPnP & OpenHome.

[asdf1000]

8 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

1. DLNA, AVB, Dante, Ravenna to name the more mainstream audio ones.

 

I would say that other mainstream ones is also UPnP & OpenHome.

Thanks Cornan but why did iFi mention DLNA separate to 'ethernet streaming modes'.

 

I was confused by that and the other comment about Roon and how that's different. I use Roon btw and am familiar with Dante and Ravenna. I thought they are all TCP ?

[Silly goose]

3 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Thanks Cornan but why did iFi mention DLNA separate to 'ethernet streaming modes'.

 

I was confused by that and the other comment about Roon and how that's different. I use Roon btw and am familiar with Dante and Ravenna. I thought they are all TCP ?

If you guys want to know more about Ravenna, Dante and other AOIP protocols, there's a great PDF and video in this thread that clearly explains how it works in a manner that the layman can clearly understand:

 

 

[Foggie]

On 4/16/2017 at 10:01 AM, Silly goose said:

You'll find out when they're released. 

?  Ahem OK, you stated there are a dozen DAC's with being released with Ethernet. Wasn't aware you are the only one privy to this.  Seemed like a straightforward question.

[mozes]

9 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

A pity, that will make grounding tricky! ? 

 

Great with a fiber-optical input network connection. That might answers the question why the Baaske is better off uphill.

Does this mean you have a fiber-optical converter close to your router or is it a direct connection from the wall outlet to the router? I guess there is always something that could be done to improve that pre router connection if you start thinking about it! ?

For me having a satellite input to my router (plus living in an appartment where many share the same service provider) a DC blocker and better quality satellite cable pre my router have a great impact on SQ. 

 

@Cornan I don't want to hijack this thread to another topic, so will post my network diagram on the tweaks thread

[Silly goose]

5 minutes ago, Foggie said:

?  Ahem OK, you stated there are a dozen DAC's with being released with Ethernet. Wasn't aware you are the only one privy to this.  Seemed like a straightforward question.

I don't even know myself. Just heard that through the grapevine. 

[mozes]

6 minutes ago, mozes said:

@Cornan I don't want to hijack this thread to another topic, so will post my network diagram on the tweaks thread

This is a link to where I posted my network topology if someone is interested

 

 

[One and a half]

IfiGalvanic 3.0 delayed release

 

More

 

 

 

 

[Silly goose]

3 minutes ago, One and a half said:

IfiGalvanic 3.0 delayed release

 

More

 

 

 

 

If they are smart they should just let Uptone steal the USB show with the IsoRegen, and scrap the Igalvanic. Then shortly after take the world by storm with an AOIP based DAC, and slaughter the competition. I think AMR is the perfect company to make AOIP popular in for the masses in the audiophile market. After all they were early adopters and pioneers with USB. They should also be with AOIP. I'll ask Blizzard to contact them with the idea. Unless he already did........

[Nikon Nutter]

in Asia in our local hifi group we tried the regen and it wasn't as good as the newer usb 3. we have a group of some guys waiiting on the galavnic 3 now. we put our name down the distributor said around end of May or maybe before.

[AmusedToD]

Hi everyone, this is my first post on this forum. I am quite intrigued by the new iGalvanic solution.

 

I have a SOTM SMS-200 streamer connected directly to my PC via Ethernet cable (bridged mode). I am expecting delivery of the Ifi Nano iUsb 3.0 hoping it will further improve the performance of the SMS-200.

 

So, would adding the iGalvanic after the streamer and before the Nano IUSB 3.0 be an overkill as both devices have the reclocking and regenerating feature? The DAC is Chord Mojo.

 

Many thanks!

[mulberry bush]

For me the only important question is: will the iGalvanic offer SQ advantages over the Intona?   Thousands of us now have the Intona galvanic isolator, and I for one certainly find it effective.   If the iGalvanic does a better job than the Intona – by which I mean sounding better – then Ifi will have a winner on their hands.    Well, I’ll be buying one anyway...

[rickca]

16 hours ago, Silly goose said:

I'll ask Blizzard to contact them with the idea. Unless he already did........

You remind me of that 1992 Michael Jordan Gatorade commercial 'if I could be like Mike'.

[Silly goose]

28 minutes ago, rickca said:

You remind me of that 1992 Michael Jordan Gatorade commercial 'if I could be like Mike'.

One day in the near future, you'll be raving about the sound of your AOIP input DAC. Desperately trying to improve the sound, but unable to because the inputs are immune to any upstream noise. OMG that will be terrible when you will have nothing left to do but listen to music won't it be

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Silly goose said:

One day in the near future, you'll be raving about the sound of your AOIP input DAC. Desperately trying to improve the sound, but unable to because the inputs are immune to any upstream noise. OMG that will be terrible when you will have nothing left to do but listen to music won't it be

Thanks John Barron!

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 15.04.2017 at 3:56 AM, Em2016 said:

 

Hi mate, I think they were saying if you were to add it in your chain, then between the mR and SU-1 is where it would go.

 

But best to try it out (free trial costs nothing) as to whether you really need it (as they suggested too).

 

 

Correct. And we always suggest to try first because audio is subjective and computer audio is such a broad spectrum of variances (Win/Mac, USB/SPDIF, long runs, short cable runs), far more so than vinyl or CD.

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 17.04.2017 at 4:28 PM, Em2016 said:

 

Hi iFI or anyone here,

 

What are some examples of 'streaming mode Ethernet' mentioned above?

 

Cheers !

 

On a transport layer level one might call any A/V distribution system using RTP or UDP "streaming mode", as with these streams there is no guarantee that data will arrive and be decoded without corruption and error concealment must be used.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_Transport_Protocol
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Datagram_Protocol

A list of audio network protocols with their respective features can be found on Wikipedia:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_network_protocols

Any item marked as "isochronous" or "synchronous" in this table is subject to the same problems as USB and SPDIF in terms of not having any guarantee of delivery.

 

Isochronous/synchronous protocols guarantee bandwidth availability at the cost of reliable transmission and hence generally used for real time transmission of Audio & Video. 

 

Only systems marked as "asynchronous" will guarantee uncorrupted data.

 

One might call these isochronous/synchronous systems "convenience focused" and question their absolute suitability for high quality transmission on the grounds that in principle they can easily transmit corrupt data and have no option to recover it uncorrupted.

[thuandb]

A Nano iUSB3.0 has been in my room for a week, and I love it.  It's everything Jay said in his audiobacon.net's review.  The lack of warmth that he mentioned imho is caused by choices of transport, USB and SATA cables.  I think the Nano is very revealing, sometimes can be unforgiving of associated components.  It did sound bright and factual for the first day or two, but afterwards I have been rewarded with highly detailed, holographic yet musical SQ.  "The lack of warmth" has been replaced with "the lack of euphonic extra warmth not existing in original recordings".

 

Like many ifi fans, I can't wait to hear the iGalvanic3.0.

[asdf1000]

5 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

On a transport layer level one might call any A/V distribution system using RTP or UDP "streaming mode", as with these streams there is no guarantee that data will arrive and be decoded without corruption and error concealment must be used.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_Transport_Protocol
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Datagram_Protocol

A list of audio network protocols with their respective features can be found on Wikipedia:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_network_protocols

Any item marked as "isochronous" or "synchronous" in this table is subject to the same problems as USB and SPDIF in terms of not having any guarantee of delivery.

 

Isochronous/synchronous protocols guarantee bandwidth availability at the cost of reliable transmission and hence generally used for real time transmission of Audio & Video. 

 

Only systems marked as "asynchronous" will guarantee uncorrupted data.

 

One might call these isochronous/synchronous systems "convenience focused" and question their absolute suitability for high quality transmission on the grounds that in principle they can easily transmit corrupt data and have no option to recover it uncorrupted.

 

Thanks gents! When you say isochronous is subject to the same problems as USB, a lot of USB these days is asynchronous, so not all USB has these potential corrupt data issues, no?

 

I have to assume that table is correct and up to date.

 

Where does Roon's RAAT protocol fit in that table?

 

Cheers again !

[AMR/iFi audio]

USB is in the AMR/iFi DNA - part #3

Over a decade of development

 

2011. The DP-777 Digital Processor. Two DACs in one.

 

The DP-777 was the first DAC with TWO DACs to select from. With galvanic isolation, full high-resolution audio and Asynchronous USB – using the Global Master Timing clock system and Zero Jitter system for USB, S/PDIF-AES/EBU - its ability to neutralize jitter was second-to-none.

 

It remains a one-off DAC that could switch chipsets and is still exceptionally well regarded. Even today, some six years after its launch.

 

 

The DP-777 was our first product to feature the XMOS USB chipset. As early adopters, we worked and have continued to work closely with XMOS and have gained extensive behind-the-scenes knowledge, much beyond the datasheet. This is why we have different versions of XMOS firmware (customized in-house for our USB DACs) to perfectly suit different customer needs.

 

Further XMOS customization reading:

• http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-black-label-tour-details-page-147-release-info-page-153/510#post_10545817

 

The Computer Audio Source (CAS) and Active USB cables.

 

To show-off the capabilities of the DP-777, and because computer audio servers were just a pipe dream back then, we developed our own Computer Audio Source using a HP Touchscreen computer. With its touchscreen navigation, stripped down hardware running an SSD and maxed out memory – was this one the first dedicated computer audiophile system?

 

 

Here is a video of the AMR Touchscreen Computer Audio Source + DP-777 on an SET with horn speaker system!

 

 

When we used this device at shows and in customer homes, we quickly realised the need for a VERY long USB cable of up to 15 metres. Naturally, an active USB cable was needed to run from one side of the listening room to the DAC in the centre/front of the room.

 

We were quite aghast that the bog standard active USB cables comprehensively outperformed passive expensive audiophile cables. Not quite the outcome we had expected.

 

This made us investigate further. This was our very first experience of REclock/REgenerate/REbalance technologies.

 

However, the state of the computer audio industry at the time was not conducive to good sales of such a product. The active USB cable project was put on the back burner.  Little did we know how much we were going to revisit this technology in the future!