Darko's Future-Fi

[Toolio]

There's a way to do that?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[Ajax]

I enjoyed Darko's article and feel there is a lot of truth in what he writes, but funnily enough I am enjoying our hobby more now than ever. After 7 years of one simple but excellent system that I listened to in my home office - Benchmark HDR DAC into Adam A7 active speakers (US$3k in 2009) - I have recently got the itch and have been on a purchasing spree looking for bargains, both new and old.

 

I have been hunting used gear in the pawn shops and eBay and recently purchased a 20 year old Parasound HCA 1206 6 channel power amp x 135w (US$700 for amazing specs), and a 15 year Boston Acoustic subwoofer ($200), which I intend to combine with a miniDSP 4 x 10 active cross over and a LXmini speaker system.i.e. combining old with new to get fabulous sound at a very economical price, especially if I am prepared to DIY with the LXmini.

 

http://www.parasound.com/vintage/hca1206.php

 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/137434-linkwitz-lab-lxmini-kit-speaker-performance-review.html

 

I really think the cost restrictions of getting good sound no longer apply and can easily be overcome if you have a little bit of knowledge. The majority of young people live / study in smallish rooms and can get great unlimited sound by purchasing a pair of small active speakers such as the JBL LSR 305 (US$249), place them on some foam on their desktop and feed them Spotify premium through a US$100 Dragonfly Black DAC. He/she will most likely already have the computer.

 

Its not perfect but it is virtually unlimited music for an initial outlay of $350 and an ongoing cost of $10/mth that would be affordable and sound terrific to most.

 

All the best

 

Ajax

[Toolio]

This reminds me that even we middle-aged white guys owe those younger than us a debt for being at least partly responsible for the resurgence in headphone popularity. They may not all be using the cans and DACs we prefer, but it's a good thing. And for sure, we owe a debt to those younger than us for the popularity of streaming services. Every day I marvel at the fact that I have an entire "record" store, and more, at my fingertips.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[Samuel T Cogley]

This reminds me that even we middle-aged white guys owe those younger than us a debt for being at least partly responsible for the resurgence in headphone popularity. They may not all be using the cans and DACs we prefer, but it's a good thing. And for sure, we owe a debt to those younger than us for the popularity of streaming services. Every day I marvel at the fact that I have an entire "record" store, and more, at my fingertips.

 

I don't miss my old Koss Pro 4AAA cans one bit!

 

[Toolio]

I don't miss my old Koss Pro 4AAA cans one bit!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]34003[/ATTACH]

 

Lovin' that volume knob!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[Samuel T Cogley]

Lovin' that volume knob!

 

Actually, that knob was to attach a optional microphone...

 

[Toolio]

Actually, that knob was to attach a optional microphone...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]34005[/ATTACH]

 

Oh. Duh! Lol. And a volume knob seemed like such a good idea!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[NOMBEDES]

Darko writes as much nonsense as the next man. Why isn't hifi attracting a diverse young audience? Because it's dull old, largely perfected technology. It hasn't really been cutting edge in 30 years either as a technology generally or as a technology which is demonstrably improving. The masses are not fools in this respect, they are spot on.The kids do like their headphones and some of them do, for the time being, rather like vinyl for its old skool feel.

 

 

Darko recently moved to Berlin (from OZ) so he could be closer to his favorite music. (A much more youth centered music than most of the "old white dudes" on this site care to follow.) (I guess the kids down under are just not cool enough for Mr. D)

 

I would guess Darko knows more about what young people are interested in than the majority here.

[adamdea]

Darko recently moved to Berlin (from OZ) so he could be closer to his favorite music. (A much more youth centered music than most of the "old white dudes" on this site care to follow.) (I guess the kids down under are just not cool enough for Mr. D)

 

I would guess Darko knows more about what young people are interested in than the majority here.

Possibly, he basically writes a load of dweebie bullshit about buying stupid unnecessary consumer electronics; as much as anyone else in this essentially pointless twitching corpse of an industry. He was bound to write what he wrote by the inevitable laws of having to write stuff when there isn't much to say.

[Jud]

Possibly, he basically writes a load of dweebie bullshit about buying stupid unnecessary consumer electronics; as much as anyone else in this essentially pointless twitching corpse of an industry. He was bound to write what he wrote by the inevitable laws of having to write stuff when there isn't much to say.

 

"...pointless twitching corpse...."

 

So you're here for all the fun, eh?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[adamdea]

"...pointless twitching corpse...."

 

So you're here for all the fun, eh?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Well, I wouldn't want to you to think that my hobby was having fun with corpses, be they ever so twitchy. I prefer to think of audiophile forums as a sort of self-help group. Like a meeting of AA which happens to be double booked with a cocktail party, where no one's quite sure who is who.

[Ajax]

Well, I wouldn't want to you to think that my hobby was having fun with corpses, be they ever so twitchy. I prefer to think of audiophile forums as a sort of self-help group. Like a meeting of AA which happens to be double booked with a cocktail party, where no one's quite sure who is who.

 

Hi Adamdea,

 

You posts would be funny if they weren't so sad. How did you got so bitter?

 

For me the audio industry has never been more fun since I purchased my first real piece of hifi of equipment, a Linn Sondek turntable way back in 1982. With digital sources and cross overs providing bit perfect signals to multi channel DACS and amps, achieving great sound has never been more readily attainable or affordable.

 

However, you are right that there is a lot of bullshit written about audio by pseudo intellectuals - both here at CA and in the audio magazines - you just need a little bit of knowledge to shift through it.

 

A little bit of research will provide a plethora of wonderful second hand power amps, speakers and subwoofers available at 1/3 the original RRP on eBay and pawn shops, but more like 1/4 the price when allowing for inflation. Alternatively buy one of the new active speakers. Just add an inexpensive asynchronous DAC, such as the Audioquest Dragonfly Red for around $US200, and you can have inexpensive great sound.

 

Never been a better time to be an audiophile IMO. What's the problem?

[Samuel T Cogley]

One thing I rarely see discussed by "old school" audiophiles: In current economic conditions, it's increasingly difficult to acquire physical space that can be optimized for "soundstage" presentation with speakers.

 

I believe this is why headphones and all the supporting gear is doing well while old school amps and speakers are on the decline. The economic landscape has been irretrievably altered and that has ensured the demise of "traditional" audiophilia.

[mansr]

One thing I rarely see discussed by "old school" audiophiles: In current economic conditions, it's increasingly difficult to acquire physical space that can be optimized for "soundstage" presentation with speakers.

 

I believe this is why headphones and all the supporting gear is doing well while old school amps and speakers are on the decline. The economic landscape has been irretrievably altered and that has ensured the demise of "traditional" audiophilia.

 

My listening space (I live in a small flat) is far from ideal acoustically, but with some DSP correction I much prefer speakers over headphones.

[adamdea]

Hi Adamdea,

 

You posts would be funny if they weren't so sad. How did you got so bitter?

 

For me the audio industry has never been more fun since I purchased my first real piece of hifi of equipment, a Linn Sondek turntable way back in 1982. With digital sources and cross overs providing bit perfect signals to multi channel DACS and amps, achieving great sound has never been more readily attainable or affordable.

 

However, you are right that there is a lot of bullshit written about audio by pseudo intellectuals - both here at CA and in the audio magazines - you just need a little bit of knowledge to shift through it.

 

A little bit of research will provide a plethora of wonderful second hand power amps, speakers and subwoofers available at 1/3 the original RRP on eBay and pawn shops, but more like 1/4 the price when allowing for inflation. Alternatively buy one of the new active speakers. Just add an inexpensive asynchronous DAC, such as the Audioquest Dragonfly Red for around $US200, and you can have inexpensive great sound.

 

Never been a better time to be an audiophile IMO. What's the problem?

Funnily enough I have plenty of cheap second hand stuff (eg a pair of JR 149s which cost me tuppence, and a Thorens TD166) and a pair of these new fangled actives too (ATC SCM40As).

 

There is undoubtedly a great range of hifi equipment available, (old and new). But why the hobby? As opposed to just getting on with it? beats me.

 

As for the darkness of what passes for my sense of humour, well don't mind me I can't help it. I find that excessively cheerful people are usually depressed.

[adamdea]

I believe this is why headphones and all the supporting gear is doing well while old school amps and speakers are on the decline. The economic landscape has been irretrievably altered and that has ensured the demise of "traditional" audiophilia.

Possibly but there is the small matter of the smartphone, a rather expensive device which people tend to carry around with them and which generally happens to have a perfectly decent dac and headphone amplifier attached, as well as ready access to more or less every piece of music ever recorded

[Jud]

Possibly but there is the small matter of the smartphone, a rather expensive device which people tend to carry around with them and which generally happens to have a perfectly decent dac and headphone amplifier attached, as well as ready access to more or less every piece of music ever recorded

 

 

This sort of hobby is pretty much by definition restricted to a small subset of the population, same as fine wine, cigars, old cars.... For 99.x% of the population, a decent table wine or a beer, no cigars, the rather expensive car they drive, are all perfectly fine, and while they might admire the idea of a fine wine or especially a fine old car, they're not paying much attention otherwise. Same with high end audio to an even greater degree - I imagine the kids who 50+ years ago might have been tempted by a home audio system to play the music that was so culturally significant at the time these days would be more into something that lets them listen to the latest that all their friends are into (which changes at least weekly), and/or lets them really crank up the bass in the car for cruising.

[adamdea]

This sort of hobby is pretty much by definition restricted to a small subset of the population, same as fine wine, cigars, old cars.... For 99.x% of the population, a decent table wine or a beer, no cigars, the rather expensive car they drive, are all perfectly fine, and while they might admire the idea of a fine wine or especially a fine old car, they're not paying much attention otherwise. Same with high end audio to an even greater degree - I imagine the kids who 50+ years ago might have been tempted by a home audio system to play the music that was so culturally significant at the time these days would be more into something that lets them listen to the latest that all their friends are into (which changes at least weekly), and/or lets them really crank up the bass in the car for cruising.

Yes there are other things to be distracted by (I don't know: films and video games). But I think we sometimes miss the obvious: armed with an iphone, a spotify account and a pair of decent headphones (I rather like Oppo PM3s which work fine with a phone) you basically have somewhere between 99 and 100% of what a huge cd collection and a fancy stereo would ever get, part from a hobby. The fine wine analogy takes us so far as regards the collecting for collectings sake, but I'm not sure there is quite the equivalent technological change

[Samuel T Cogley]

Possibly but there is the small matter of the smartphone, a rather expensive device which people tend to carry around with them and which generally happens to have a perfectly decent dac and headphone amplifier attached, as well as ready access to more or less every piece of music ever recorded

 

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on that. All things being equal, I can drive a pair of Westone W40s with a Pono player (for example) much better than with a smartphone. There is no argument from me that a smartphone is by far the most convenient. And while I own a smartphone "stack" amp (Oppo HA2), it's just not practical for "listening while in motion".

 

Regarding, "more or less every piece of music ever recorded", in my experience, streaming is always on the "less" side. Way less.

[Samuel T Cogley]

This sort of hobby is pretty much by definition restricted to a small subset of the population, same as fine wine, cigars, old cars.... For 99.x% of the population, a decent table wine or a beer, no cigars, the rather expensive car they drive, are all perfectly fine, and while they might admire the idea of a fine wine or especially a fine old car, they're not paying much attention otherwise. Same with high end audio to an even greater degree - I imagine the kids who 50+ years ago might have been tempted by a home audio system to play the music that was so culturally significant at the time these days would be more into something that lets them listen to the latest that all their friends are into (which changes at least weekly), and/or lets them really crank up the bass in the car for cruising.

 

I always bristle at this. I got into gear as a way to listen to music. It's just equipment. Like a toaster or blender. While I grudgingly accept the company of those who pursue the "hobby" as a trapping of affluence, I find I have very little in common with them practically.

[adamdea]

We'll probably have to agree to disagree on that. All things being equal, I can drive a pair of Westone W40s with a Pono player (for example) much better than with a smartphone. There is no argument from me that a smartphone is by far the most convenient. And while I own a smartphone "stack" amp (Oppo HA2), it's just not practical for "listening while in motion".

 

Regarding, "more or less every piece of music ever recorded", in my experience, streaming is always on the "less" side. Way less.

For some reason the Princess and the Pea comes to mind.

[Jud]

I always bristle at this. I got into gear as a way to listen to music. It's just equipment. Like a toaster or blender. While I grudgingly accept the company of those who pursue the "hobby" as a trapping of affluence, I find I have very little in common with them practically.

 

Then you mistake my meaning. The fellow my wife and I know who is most into old cars, and has a car he proudly displays at shows, is a retiree who worked with my wife. Not management, not someone into "trappings of affluence," just a regular worker who chose old cars as a hobby. My DAC cost $375. More than 99% of the population would pay for a DAC, but way less than the price of a new iPhone. Not a "trapping of affluence."

 

I'm just talking about hobbies a very small proportion of the population is into, in some part due simply to personal preference.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Jud]

Yes there are other things to be distracted by (I don't know: films and video games). But I think we sometimes miss the obvious: armed with an iphone, a spotify account and a pair of decent headphones (I rather like Oppo PM3s which work fine with a phone) you basically have somewhere between 99 and 100% of what a huge cd collection and a fancy stereo would ever get, part from a hobby. The fine wine analogy takes us so far as regards the collecting for collectings sake, but I'm not sure there is quite the equivalent technological change

 

I like my main audio system more than 1% better than my phone (which I agree produces very nice sound into my headphones), but then we're talking about my subjective preference, and since I'm into the hobby, I would say that, wouldn't I?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Samuel T Cogley]

For some reason the Princess and the Pea comes to mind.

 

I certainly acknowledge that OCD is a prominent affliction in audiophilia. Every tried setting up a cartridge on a tonearm?

[Samuel T Cogley]

Then you mistake my meaning. The fellow my wife and I know who is most into old cars, and has a car he proudly displays at shows, is a retiree who worked with my wife. Not management, not someone into "trappings of affluence," just a regular worker who chose old cars as a hobby. My DAC cost $375. More than 99% of the population would pay for a DAC, but way less than the price of a new iPhone. Not a "trapping of affluence."

 

I'm just talking about hobbies a very small proportion of the population is into, in some part due simply to personal preference.

 

My journey down the rat hole started when I began capturing vinyl digitally around 2003 or so. It never came even remotely close to the sound quality of CDs (setting aside the allure of the euphonics of vinyl). I approached it more analytically: the technical aspects of the professional recording process all the way to the delivery of the end consumer product and every step in between.

 

Along the way, I've found some really obscure vinyl and was happy to provide what appeared to be the first digital copy to the masses on Youtube (optimal audio encoding for Youtube in and of itself is not immediately apparent). This is probably the only objectively "good" thing to come out of this journey.

 

But I still attempt to get "closer to the master tape" with every iteration. Along the way, I've discovered the different DAC "presentations" (PCM based vs. SDM based) both have pluses and minuses. No doubt I've sunk way more money that you into DACs let alone ADCs, vinyl gear, studio monitors and headphone gear. This is more like an admission of guilt than a brag.

 

While I humbly acknowledge misreading your post, I'm sure we agree that the "trappings of affluence" are a significant quarter of this "hobby".