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Does this exist: a Cloud-based Upnp server?


ibastian
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I have been using BubbleUpnp to stream from Google Drive to my Raspberry Pi running Moode with a Upnp renderer. I love the simplicity of not having a server running in my house, but I don't have many files in Google Drive. I think if I did, organizing and browsing through them would be a problem.

 

Is there such a thing as a cloud-based upnp server that organizes your cloud storage and can serve it back to a local network? I think Plex is doing something like this but it is more geared to video and you have to use their own apps to access the files (I believe, I have never used it).

 

Is this something you would be interested in?

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Thanks for the replies - I guess what I'm saying is, once you start browsing a huge collection in BubbleUpnp it might get out of hand. It really would depend on the folder structure and the onus is on you to maintain this. a Upnp server would force some structure to this.

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Thanks for the replies - I guess what I'm saying is, once you start browsing a huge collection in BubbleUpnp it might get out of hand. It really would depend on the folder structure and the onus is on you to maintain this. a Upnp server would force some structure to this.

 

As I mentioned, CloudPlayer does just that, but it is not a UPNP server. Anyway, I did use it for a while, and thought it was nice to bother with a NAS and have access to my library outside my him. I soon found it was more practical having local access to my files. It is a nice concept, but in practice relying on internet storage for library management is a little cumbersome in my opinion. It probably depends on how often you add new music, and whether you want to rely exclusively on one way of accessing your files.

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As I mentioned, CloudPlayer does just that, but it is not a UPNP server. Anyway, I did use it for a while, and thought it was nice to bother with a NAS and have access to my library outside my him. I soon found it was more practical having local access to my files. It is a nice concept, but in practice relying on internet storage for library management is a little cumbersome in my opinion. It probably depends on how often you add new music, and whether you want to rely exclusively on one way of accessing your files.

 

Thanks! I will check it out.

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If you do use it:

- you will notice that the initial scan of your cloud storage is quite slow

- you may want to test it on a subset of your library first

- album art can be automatically added, or obtained from your music files (you have to embed an image in the tag of at least one track of each album) - it can be modified after

- you can edit the tags in CloudPlayer, but those edits are stored in the app and not in your music files...

Have fun...

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Plex now also offers the ability to play files from the cloud. It still runs locally though. Plex supports UPnP and also does video and photos. Integrates with Amazon, OneDrive, Dropbox and Google Drive. Check out the Plex website for details.

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A cloud based UPnP server... there's an interesting idea. Combined with Web based library management tools I think it could work.

 

But what are the advantages over simply streaming?

I believe the idea is very similar to what Plex is doing but up until this point I was not given an invite. I think it's open to everyone now?

 

In my mind the advantages over streaming would be:

  • control over the quality of the files (maybe CD or hires vs. MP3)
  • control over specific versions of albums (mastering, deluxe versions, etc.)
  • the ability to take advantage of existing large libraries that many have built up over the years

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But as above Plex is running locally, unless I've missed something.

 

Given hi-res streaming, is your first point still important?

 

Why is the second point important? I'm not questioning it, just trying to understand... is this a "music collector" type of thing?

 

Agree on the third point. I think a lot of people will say "but you're library isn't as big as Spotify's" - but that's not the point; it only takes a few releases not existing on Spotify (or whatever) and for a collector I think streaming loses its shine.

 

bliss - fully automated music organizer. Read the music library management blog.

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But as above Plex is running locally, unless I've missed something.

 

Not exactly sure what you mean. For Plex to work with cloud services I think you have to subscribe to Plex Pass and then you do not have anything running locally. Plex is geared more towards video. I admit I have never used it but I looks like you have to use their own apps as well.

 

Given hi-res streaming, is your first point still important?

 

Why is the second point important? I'm not questioning it, just trying to understand... is this a "music collector" type of thing?

Agree on the third point. I think a lot of people will say "but you're library isn't as big as Spotify's" - but that's not the point; it only takes a few releases not existing on Spotify (or whatever) and for a collector I think streaming loses its shine.[/Quote]

 

I think it definitely would be more of niche "Music collector" type thing (especially if a person wants to distinguish between multiple versions of the same album due to format [DSD vs. Redbook] or mastering [Remastered vs original]).

 

It looks like you have some experience in this area with Bliss and software like that would go hand in hand so that

1. Upload files to Cloud

2. Point server to cloud folder

3. Files are organized by server

4. Music database is enhanced by bliss :)

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It may be worth reconsidering having your own UPnP/DLNA media server, on a very simple setup. For example running the excellent MinimServer on another Raspberry Pi with a USB storage drive. By also running BubbleUPnP Server helper application the Pi, you'll have secure access to any UPnP/DLNA media server on your home network over the internet - your own private 'cloud'. Requires you to also use the BubbleUPnP Android app for control (which you already have).

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I forgot the obvious reason UPnP servers won't work in the cloud - discovery. I believe they use multicast under the covers which means remote servers wouldn't be found. Post discovery though, it might work.

 

It looks like you have some experience in this area with Bliss and software like that would go hand in hand so that

1. Upload files to Cloud

2. Point server to cloud folder

3. Files are organized by server

4. Music database is enhanced by bliss :)

Yep this is where I was coming from! Just interested to learn different people's use cases.

 

bliss - fully automated music organizer. Read the music library management blog.

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I forgot the obvious reason UPnP servers won't work in the cloud - discovery. I believe they use multicast under the covers which means remote servers wouldn't be found. Post discovery though, it might work.

That's where BubbleUPnP Server can help as it allows to bypass regular local network SSDP discovery for media servers. BubbleUPnP Server can run on a dedicated host in the cloud, alongside any regular UPnP/DLNA media server (similar to what Cebolla describes in its latest message but running on any cloud machine rather than a Pi on a local network). That UPnP/DLNA media server can then be accessed (securely, with authentication and optional encryption) from any network:

 

- via Android BubbleUPnP

 

- via any other UPnP/DLNA software on the LAN provided that the remote UPnP/DLNA media server managed by BubbleUPnP Server is rebroadcasted on the local network via either:

1. Android BubbleUPnP (there's a setting in the app for that)

2. BubbleUPnP Tether Client. A command line utility that can run on any machine on the LAN able to run Java programs. Admittedly barebone and not very user friendly as it has no UI, but not difficult to use

 

This cloud scenario (without the optional rebroadcasting mentioned) has a demo mode within Android BubbleUPnP (Settings > Try demo server) connecting to a demo BubbleUPnP Server running in the cloud alongside MinimServer (for music) and Mediatomb (for photos and videos).

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Thanks for the replies - I was off last week so I wasn't able to follow along but I think what bubbleguuum has mentioned is interesting and worth exploring further. 

 

Also a near term simpler solution would be to attach a USB hd to something but I'm sort of thinking of broader applications that other people might be interested in. 

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On 3/14/2017 at 10:07 AM, bubbleguuum said:

That's where BubbleUPnP Server can help as it allows to bypass regular local network SSDP discovery for media servers. BubbleUPnP Server can run on a dedicated host in the cloud, alongside any regular UPnP/DLNA media server (similar to what Cebolla describes in its latest message but running on any cloud machine rather than a Pi on a local network). That UPnP/DLNA media server can then be accessed (securely, with authentication and optional encryption) from any network:

 

- via Android BubbleUPnP

 

- via any other UPnP/DLNA software on the LAN provided that the remote UPnP/DLNA media server managed by BubbleUPnP Server is rebroadcasted on the local network via either:

1. Android BubbleUPnP (there's a setting in the app for that)

2. BubbleUPnP Tether Client. A command line utility that can run on any machine on the LAN able to run Java programs. Admittedly barebone and not very user friendly as it has no UI, but not difficult to use

 

This cloud scenario (without the optional rebroadcasting mentioned) has a demo mode within Android BubbleUPnP (Settings > Try demo server) connecting to a demo BubbleUPnP Server running in the cloud alongside MinimServer (for music) and Mediatomb (for photos and videos).

 

I have seen that option in BubbleUPnp to create a demo server. In this scenario the files are still hosted locally, but the server is in the cloud? I guess, in a way, I'm looking for the opposite: Files in the cloud connected to a local server. 

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8 minutes ago, ibastian said:

 

I have seen that option in BubbleUPnp to create a demo server. In this scenario the files are still hosted locally, but the server is in the cloud? I guess, in a way, I'm looking for the opposite: Files in the cloud connected to a local server. 

 

You do not create a demo server: you connect to an existing (demo) BubbleUPnP Server running in the cloud, alongside MinimServer and mediatomb running on the same cloud machine making available media files stored on that same cloud machine. So everything is in the cloud.

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21 minutes ago, bubbleguuum said:

 

You do not create a demo server: you connect to an existing (demo) BubbleUPnP Server running in the cloud, alongside MinimServer and mediatomb running on the same cloud machine making available media files stored on that same cloud machine. So everything is in the cloud.

That sounds great! So if I was replicating this for my own set up, the only hitch for me would be that I would need to store the files on a more traditional server - not a service like Google Drive or Dropbox? 

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I would not use uPnP on the cloud. I know it is easy but it can be a security issue as uPnP opens ports in your firewall automatically and these can possibly be spoofed. User be ware.

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18 minutes ago, botrytis said:

I would not use uPnP on the cloud. I know it is easy but it can be a security issue as uPnP opens ports in your firewall automatically and these can possibly be spoofed. User be ware.

 

18 minutes ago, botrytis said:

I would not use uPnP on the cloud. I know it is easy but it can be a security issue as uPnP opens ports in your firewall automatically and these can possibly be spoofed. User be ware.

Incorrect. What you are talking about is UPnP IGD (Internet Gateway Daemon) implemented by some routers to allow programs to add NAT rules (open ports) on a LAN.  It has nothing to to with UPnP AV (Audio/Video) which we are talking about. In any case, BubbleUPnP Server allow to connect securely (eg with authentication) and with encryption to regular UPnP media servers running on a cloud machine and that are not accessible directly otherwise (because regular UPnP AV device discovery does not cross the LAN boundary).

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1 hour ago, ibastian said:

That sounds great! So if I was replicating this for my own set up, the only hitch for me would be that I would need to store the files on a more traditional server - not a service like Google Drive or Dropbox? 

Yes, which is why I originally suggested using the Raspberry Pi  (that you already have, so can easily test the setup) with attached USB storage, running MinimServer and the BubbleUPnP Server as a simple way of running your own cloud server, which you can access online with the BubbleUPnP Android app (that you also already have).

 

Of course, you can use any appropriate machine to run the cloud server with the MinimServer & the BubbleUPnP Server software, not just a Raspberry Pi!

We will win because our NHS is the beating heart of this country. It is the best of this country. It is unconquerable. It is powered by love.

-- Boris Johnson

 

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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I don't understand. I got Bubbleupnp on Android and the server on microRendu. I know how to use Bubbleupnp to stream from f.e. Dropbox. But I don't have enough space on Dropbox. I do have a lot of space on Stack. Can I get Bubbleupnp to access my music on Stack or any not preconfigured cloud storage?

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