Jud Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 A+ is an "ad hoc" UPnP/DLNA server. You then need a renderer at the other end. But it works pretty much as you've described. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 27 minutes ago, Jud said: A+ is an "ad hoc" UPnP/DLNA server. You then need a renderer at the other end. But it works pretty much as you've described. Since UPnP is a peer-to-peer (i.e. ad-hoc) network architecture standard, then isn't it the case that all UPnP servers are "ad-hoc"? (All DLNA-capable devices are also UPnP-capable since the former is derived from the latter.) mQa is dead! Link to comment
pl_svn Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/18/2019 at 4:07 PM, pl_svn said: ... been holding back, since october/november, the purchase of a NUC (to run ROCK only and ditch the Mac mini) just to see what A+ 3.5 comes out to be 🙄 ok, as Roon 1.6 released this morning (finally) has Qobuz streaming integration... I have no more reason to wait for A+ 3.5 it’s been great since it lasted: thank you indeed Damien Qnap HS-264 NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 running Roon ROCK (powered by a Keces P8 LPS) > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier > First Watt SIT 3 power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III headphones system: Cirrus 7 > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio > Pathos Aurium amplifier (powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Focal Clear headphones Link to comment
mimizone Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 15 hours ago, macuniverse said: Ok, I just tested it on my Macbook Pro. If you run A+ first it will see the DLNA renderers (not servers, see below) and you can select the one you need. Then if you run JRiver second, it will see both DLNA renderers and servers; and can grab the renderer already selected by A+ and play to it. If you stop JRiver and go back to A+ (still running, not playing) and play to the same renderer it will play also. However, if you run JRIver first A+ cannot see any of the renderers. I'm pretty sure A+ is not running as a Server (where other devices can see its library content) or Renderer (where A+ can see other DLNA servers' content and play from them). It's just a streamer to DLNA renderers or play to local devices (i.e., A+ laptop -> USB -> DAC) Thanks a lot for reproducing the issue. That’s exactly the behavior on my setup. sorry for the choice of wrong word also. I meant that Audirvana Upnp server is not started (not the Dlna server). You can see the log in the debug window of Audirvana, at the bottom of it in my case. Link to comment
gordec Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I’m using A+ with Pro Idsd as network player via DLNA. However it’s restricted to 24/192 on A+ side. Pro iDSD can do DoP. Anyway to address that? Alienware R7 with Paul Pang V2 USB PCIE -> iFi Pro iDSD -> McIntosh MHA100 -> Hifiman Susvara. Keeping it simple! Link to comment
bobbmd Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @gordec why use ‘restricted’ for A+3 to 24/192 I find it hard to believe that greater than that capability could make streamed music any better than it sounds either from A+3 in MQA from TIDAL or HiRes/Studio from Qobuz or now ROON for either Qobuz or TIDAL and I think i have really good discerning ears for a 70 yo- I may be limited by the ancient speakers and AVR I use after the streaming music goes through my Meridian Explorer 2 DAC or my premultibit Schiit Gungnir DAC Link to comment
bnbayer Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, gordec said: I’m using A+ with Pro Idsd as network player via DLNA. However it’s restricted to 24/192 on A+ side. Pro iDSD can do DoP. Anyway to address that? Do you mean an iFi iDSD Pro? A+ will certainly handle DSD through that - at least it does on my iDSD Nano. You have to select DoP in A+ Preferences. BTW, I don't know if it works on the Pro, but iFi tells you to lie about the PCM capabilities of the DAC: if you set the maximum PCM rate to 768kHz, A+ will let the DAC do DSD256. (Don't try to actually play PCM files at 768 - you're still "limited" to 32/384kHz for PCM.) Link to comment
Kurt Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I have a multi-channel DAC (Exasound e38). When playing an ISO directly in A+, if there is a multi-channel layer in the ISO, this is what I hear. One of my friends has a 2-channel DAC. If he plays the same ISO, is he hearing the multi-channel layer but only the front 2 channels or does A+ know that the path is set up for 2-channel therefore rendering the 2-channel stereo layer? Link to comment
bnbayer Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 17 hours ago, bobbmd said: I find it hard to believe that greater than that capability could make streamed music any better than it sounds either from A+3 in MQA from TIDAL or HiRes/Studio from Qobuz or now ROON for either Qobuz or TIDAL Streaming wasn't mentioned in the original post. Link to comment
Jud Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 18 hours ago, gordec said: I’m using A+ with Pro Idsd as network player via DLNA. However it’s restricted to 24/192 on A+ side. Pro iDSD can do DoP. Anyway to address that? You should select DoP in the preferences, and if you already have it selected, try another DoP version/selection. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 21 hours ago, lucretius said: Since UPnP is a peer-to-peer (i.e. ad-hoc) network architecture standard, then isn't it the case that all UPnP servers are "ad-hoc"? (All DLNA-capable devices are also UPnP-capable since the former is derived from the latter.) Perhaps, and/or perhaps it means A+ is not intended primarily as a server, but will do so if you ask it to send music to a renderer/network player. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
rruffin Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Anyone using a DigiOne (regular or Signature model) with A+ in the UPnP mode? MacMini Quad i7/Audirvana Studio/USBridge DigiOne Signature Player/Schiit Yggdrasil GS/Aragon Palladium 1 amplifiers/Stacked Energy 22 speakers (Reference Connoisseur on bottom & Pro 22 on top) set tweeter to tweeter/Kimber Monocle XL speaker wires/Straightwire Crescendo & Virtuoso IC/Mordaunt Short 309 subwoofers Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 12 hours ago, Jud said: Perhaps, and/or perhaps it means A+ is not intended primarily as a server, but will do so if you ask it to send music to a renderer/network player. What is the relevance of what you are saying? mQa is dead! Link to comment
Jud Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 10 hours ago, lucretius said: What is the relevance of what you are saying? Simply another possible reason for the term "ad hoc" server. No particular importance. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Jud said: Simply another possible reason for the term "ad hoc" server. No particular importance. Fine, except that the term "ad hoc server" is well known in the industry and I would expect a developer who quotes the term to use the industry meaning. mQa is dead! Link to comment
KenG Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 9:28 AM, rruffin said: Anyone using a DigiOne (regular or Signature model) with A+ in the UPnP mode? Yes. I am using a Signature. Link to comment
bnbayer Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 This isn't actually an industry forum. Trying to clarify terms for the rest of us is valuable. buonassi 1 Link to comment
Jud Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, lucretius said: Fine, except that the term "ad hoc server" is well known in the industry and I would expect a developer who quotes the term to use the industry meaning. Ah, wasn't aware of that - thank you for the information. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
lucretius Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, bnbayer said: This isn't actually an industry forum. Trying to clarify terms for the rest of us is valuable. The developer used the term on his forum*. I believe Jud was quoting him when he wrote "A+ is an 'ad hoc' UPnP/DLNA server". *Per Damien (developer): Audirvana Plus is a UPnP/DLNA control point with a ad-hoc server. In any case, UPnP is a peer-to-peer/ad-hoc network architecture standard; intended to help devices in ad hoc IP networks to discover each other. DLNA is derived from UPnP (restricted subset). Therefore, all UPnP/DLNA servers are "ad-hoc servers". No need for us to concern ourselves with the term, since it does not distinguish one UPnP/DNLA server software from the other. Jud 1 mQa is dead! Link to comment
mimizone Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Hi all. question regarding playing SACD ISO over DLNA. So it works fine with Audirvana and my Sony Receiver. It's actually seamless and a great user experience to be able to do that. Is there anywhere in the audio path a conversion to PCM that occurs? or Audirvana is able to extract the DSD data in realtime from the ISO and put it in a DoP+DSF format? Thanks Link to comment
rruffin Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 22 hours ago, KenG said: Yes. I am using a Signature. Cool. This is like meeting a long lost family member... If you don't mind my asking: What software are you using on the Raspberry Pi? Did you have any problems controlling the volume (meaning, did Audirvana and your software - mine eventually was Volumio - play nice together? I had a very difficult time finding Pi software that did not keep the volume jumping to full volume. Have you noticed a difference in sound quality among the different Pi softwares? Do you use Audrivana's upsampling and other advanced parameters (Steepness, Pre-ringing, etc...)? If so, can you imagine trying to fine tune a digital front end without them (like so many folks who use a DigiOne)? Do you keep track of the power supply upgrades (as reported in the Allo section)? What are you using to power the "clean" side? Thanks and thanks for the Audirvana folks for tolerating this side conversation... MacMini Quad i7/Audirvana Studio/USBridge DigiOne Signature Player/Schiit Yggdrasil GS/Aragon Palladium 1 amplifiers/Stacked Energy 22 speakers (Reference Connoisseur on bottom & Pro 22 on top) set tweeter to tweeter/Kimber Monocle XL speaker wires/Straightwire Crescendo & Virtuoso IC/Mordaunt Short 309 subwoofers Link to comment
KenG Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 hours ago, rruffin said: Cool. This is like meeting a long lost family member... If you don't mind my asking: What software are you using on the Raspberry Pi? Did you have any problems controlling the volume (meaning, did Audirvana and your software - mine eventually was Volumio - play nice together? I had a very difficult time finding Pi software that did not keep the volume jumping to full volume. Have you noticed a difference in sound quality among the different Pi softwares? Do you use Audrivana's upsampling and other advanced parameters (Steepness, Pre-ringing, etc...)? If so, can you imagine trying to fine tune a digital front end without them (like so many folks who use a DigiOne)? Do you keep track of the power supply upgrades (as reported in the Allo section)? What are you using to power the "clean" side? Thanks and thanks for the Audirvana folks for tolerating this side conversation... No problem answering your questions. My answers are in bold italics. What software are you using on the Raspberry Pi? Volumio. I tried DiePi which wasn't as user-friendly and MoOde didn't really work well for me. I rarely use the Volumio GUI since Audirvana does almost everything as the front end interface. Did you have any problems controlling the volume (meaning, did Audirvana and your software - mine eventually was Volumio - play nice together? I had a very difficult time finding Pi software that did not keep the volume jumping to full volume. Have you noticed a difference in sound quality among the different Pi softwares? I didn't really play with the volume much between the Pi software and I usually use the volume knob on my headphone amp to adjust. I noticed that you can control the volume from audirvana if you select "Software Only" in the Volume Control Type area of the Audio Volume Preferences. I usually though have it at full volume on the software, Pi and DAC and adjust as needed on my Amp. In doing so I have not noticed fluctuation in volumes though when I have different listening sessions with the Amp knob static. Do you use Audrivana's upsampling and other advanced parameters (Steepness, Pre-ringing, etc...)? If so, can you imagine trying to fine tune a digital front end without them (like so many folks who use a DigiOne)? I have not used any upsampling or other adjustments besides sometimes using the Reveal Plugin for my Audeze LCD-2 headphones. Do you keep track of the power supply upgrades (as reported in the Allo section)? What are you using to power the "clean" side? I've seen a lot of the conversations in the Allo threads and I figured batteries would be a hassle and an LPS is a pretty costly upgrade for a $330 device and might not make a perceivable difference in the end. I did have a iFi iPower handy and compared it to the standard Allo Power supply (which is quite good) and noticed no audible difference. I use the standard Allo PSU to power the clean side. I may try out something else in the future but I'm content for now. Thanks and thanks for the Audirvana folks for tolerating this side conversation... rruffin 1 Link to comment
mimizone Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 3:03 PM, mimizone said: Hi all. question regarding playing SACD ISO over DLNA. So it works fine with Audirvana and my Sony Receiver. It's actually seamless and a great user experience to be able to do that. Is there anywhere in the audio path a conversion to PCM that occurs? or Audirvana is able to extract the DSD data in realtime from the ISO and put it in a DoP+DSF format? Thanks Any chance anybody knows if SACD ISO are converted to PCM and back to DSD if played over DLNA? or it's straight DSD? Anybody has seen the code under the hood? Link to comment
Jud Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 4 hours ago, mimizone said: Any chance anybody knows if SACD ISO are converted to PCM and back to DSD if played over DLNA? or it's straight DSD? Anybody has seen the code under the hood? Haven't seen the code, but there'd be no reason to convert compressed DSD (ISO) to PCM and back to DSD, instead of simply decompressing it. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
mimizone Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 6 hours ago, Jud said: Haven't seen the code, but there'd be no reason to convert compressed DSD (ISO) to PCM and back to DSD, instead of simply decompressing it. I agree but the folks on the Jriver forum argue the conversion has to be done with DLNA. But it’s not clear why frankly. (And it’s not about the PCM encapsulation in DoP) since i am also using audirvana and it plays transparently iso via DLNA, I was wondering what’s the trick if any. Still don’t see what’s the difficulty. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now