Audirvana Plus 3 (official thread)

[mevdinc]

My personal interest is the best sounding solutions within a reasonable price range. My funds are also limited. The problem with these kind of discussions is that those who find something to expensive or have invested a lot of time and effort in something, automatically have the tendency to protect and defend. That is normal human behaviour. Like I said, I am a long time A+ adept and will stay with the product if it realises the best sounding solution in my chain. At the moment it is not. I am not a Roon fanboy. In fact, I am using the free 2 month trial that came with my mRendu. I am open minded and willing to learn and adjust in this very fast moving digital audio world.

 

I see from your signature that you've got the wonderful Lindemann monitor speakers but not their DAC. I just wondered if you had a chance to hear their new DSD series musicbook DACs at all?

I've recently replaced my ageing Zodiac Gold with Musicbook 20 DSD and I must say I'm very pleased with it.

 

FWIW, I tried the MQA via the TIDAL desktop app but Audirvana sounds better even without the MQA software decoding.

Can't wait to try out the MQA music with Audirvana+ 3!

[mevdinc]

Just upgraded to Audirvana 3.0.1 and I also detected quite a bit of SQ improvement although I cannot fully use my system in my current listening environment!

 

I think the MQA sound is wonderful even with the first level of software unfolding done by Audirvana, and it's free! Non MQA music sounds better too.

@damien, One small problem I noticed is that the MQA info displayed by Audirvana is wrong, only some albums/tacks appear as 24/96 kHz and the rest as 24/44.1 or 24/192 or even as 24/352.8. I'm not doing any up-sampling in Audirvana!

However, the incoming MQA track info appears correctly on my DAC as either 24/88.2 kHz or 24/96 Khz as it should be.

 

Well done for improving the SQ yet again!

[mevdinc]

I think the 'incorrect' values are the MQA correct and they're showing the resolution of the MQA tracks. If you've not got an MQA DAC then the software decoding in Audiovana has a maximum resolution of 24/88.2-96. If you had an MQA DAC you'd see 24/192 etc. on the DAC (assuming the MQA file is being passed to the DAC without any software decoding).

 

Thanks for the correction, your explanation makes complete sense!

[mevdinc]

I believe that's incorrect. A+ "unfolds" Tidal Masters for my non-MQA DAC to 24/192 as appropriate (for example, Joni Mitchell's "Blue" album).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

My understanding is that Audirvana and other players are only allowed to unfold in software to 1st level which can only be either 88.2 kHz or 96 kHZ. So, the explanation of @OneHandWaving does make sense to me.

 

Like I said my DAC only displays the incoming MQA tracks as either 24/88.2 or 24/96 regardless of what Audirvana displays. This further supports @OneHandWaving's explanation.

I'm not doing any up-sampling with Audirvana at the moment as my DAC does a great job of up-sampling to DSD 256!

[mevdinc]

I have up-sampling turned off but I can see as high as 352.8 kHz as displayed by Audirvana, see post #334, which probably means that Audirvana is just displaying the maximum MQA file resolution as reported by TIDAL.

 

My understanding is that MQA file unfolding involves a bit more than up-sampling as it actually stores the original resolution in a specially compressed format.

So, in practice the MQA capable DAC is just unfolding the original file rather than up-sampling which in theory should result in better sound. How much better that's a different question.

I'm sure some users will be comparing software unfolding to 96 kHz and then software up-sampling to 384 kHz with an MQA capable DAC doing all the unfolding of the original 384 kHz MQA file.

[mevdinc]

Unfolding is upsampling. Compressed information tells the renderer what resolution to upsample/unfold to, among other things.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

I thought unfolding was like unzipping since MQA is some kind of lossless compression, whereas up-sampling is very different, it actually creates more samples from the existing info.

 

However, MQA software unfolding is still limited to 88.2 kHz or 96 kHz regardless of what Audirvana displays for the MQA. I have up-sampling turned off at Audirvana end, on my DAC the MQA music appears either as 88.2 or 96.

[mevdinc]

I have done some reverse engineering of the MQA decoder, and I can confirm that Jud is right. Only the first stage decoding restores any high-frequency content from the original. The rest is mere upsampling with a very poor filter.

 

This is exactly my point, I'm only talking about the first stage of unfolding, which Audirvana is allowed to perform i.e either 88.2 or 96, this is exactly what my DAC displays regardless of what Audirvana shows.

[mevdinc]

Erm, MQA is not lossless.

 

I'm only referring to the first stage of unfolding (88.2 or 96 kHz), which is supposed/claimed to be lossless (at least to 17 bits anyway).

I don't really care much for the rest of the unfolding and/or MQA format info as I have no intention to invest in a MQA DAC.

[mevdinc]

The compression is lossy, so what is unfolded has less information than what was folded. MQA claims the process is *audibly* lossless.

 

 

Anyway we've already had thousands of comments on the forum about MQA....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Hi Jud,

 

Sorry to reignite the MQA discussion but I think quite a number of us upgraded to Audirvana 3.0 partly because of the MQA support.

Personally, I thought having lossless 88.2/96 res streaming was very attractive.

 

But it seems you and others are absolutely right about MQA not being a lossless format!

Here's an interesting article on the MQA format.

 

HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA | Hi-Fi+

 

See what the MQA people will say/do about all this.

 

Best.

Mev

[mevdinc]

I hadn't played anything higher than 96kHz since installing V3.02 until tonight. When I tried to play a local 192 kHz file my DAC displayed it as 88.2 kHz and the sound was filled with white noise. Tried a few local DSD files and I got no sound at all.

 

So, I restarted my Mac Mini and turned my DAC off then on. I set the output to 24/384 with Audi Midi Setup. I also checked the Auto detect MQA DAC option in A+.

 

Now all seems fine.

Hope this helps those with sample rate problems.

[mevdinc]

12 minutes ago, Giacomino said:

https://audirvana.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1048

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19274252/AudirvanaSierraDirectMode.zip

The above Dropbox link is dead, the working link is below.

Re: Direct-Mode in macOS Sierra

• Quote

Post by RunHomeSlow » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:42 pm

Since yesterday, Dropbox changed his security, so my link is dead. Here it is for those who still wants it...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ex3ksuj1calu7 ... e.zip?dl=0

[mevdinc]

I also think there should be a better way to check for license validation.
I'm sure Damien will come up with a more practical and reasonable solution.

[mevdinc]

I'm experiencing playback stopping at end of tracks (last 2-3 secs) again on some albums! It seems it's not just DAC dependent as I previously thought/reported.

 

It first happened with the following album being streamed from TIDAL.
McCoy Tyner With Stanley Clarke And Al Foster
@damien78 I double checked and the first track length is displayed as 435:22  (actual track length: 9:11).
I will report if this happens with any other album(s)/track(s).

I'm running Version 3.06 (3010).

Best.
Mev

[mevdinc]

4 hours ago, Scar972 said:

I've been using A+ for a few months and have always had issues with the connection of the A+ remote, sometimes it will connect sometimes it won't. I remember not having this much connection issues when I was using the iTunes remote. Anyone else experience this? TIA

I used to have connection problems with iPhone 6+ but I've ben using iPhone 7+ for last few weeks with no problems at all.

[mevdinc]

On 2017-5-21 at 1:59 PM, mevdinc said:

I'm experiencing playback stopping at end of tracks (last 2-3 secs) again on some albums! It seems it's not just DAC dependent as I previously thought/reported.

 

It first happened with the following album being streamed from TIDAL.
McCoy Tyner With Stanley Clarke And Al Foster
@damien78 I double checked and the first track length is displayed as 435:22  (actual track length: 9:11).
I will report if this happens with any other album(s)/track(s).

I'm running Version 3.06 (3010).

Best.
Mev

Update:;
Anyone else played the above album at all and any problems?

I'm also getting the same problem with track 7!
Actual length 7:36 but A+ displays it as 435:22 and playback stops at 7:35.
@damien78 maybe this will give you some pointers/clues as to why some people experience playback stopping just before the end of track.
 

[mevdinc]

4 hours ago, damien78 said:

 

Thanks for the report.

This track file (MP3) is missing total duration information, thus the initial display of the duration is incorrect. It is then replaced by the real value when the track is fully loaded.

I've implemented a workaround for this to display a much better approximation of track duration when it is loading.

You'll get it in 3.1

Thanks @damien78, didn't realise they were MP3 (Tracks 1 and 7).

[mevdinc]

Despite the usb/audio update in 10.12.5 I'm still having problems with MacMini recognising my Lindemann DAC sometimes. It works OK for days and then doesn't, I couldn't track it down to any thing specific.
I have to restart both the DAC and MacMini to make it work.

[mevdinc]

2 hours ago, Giacomino said:

Good morning, it happens the same with my V2 + then I turn off the mac and then reboot and I see xCORE USB 2.0 again.

Attach link to better understand what happens to V2 + on OSX Sierra  : http://www.xcore.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4439

Thanks for the additional info.

I decided to double check to see what caused the problem.
I've been using the DAC in Streamer mode ie no Audirvana + and Mac Mini.
And my DAC failed to come out of the standby mode a couple of times via the Lindemann remote app! So, my problem maybe DAC/network related rather than Audirvana + /Mac Mini.

[mevdinc]

I don't think the problem is caused by Audirvana, it looks like the USB/Audio fix by Apple on their latest OS 10.12.5 hasn't fixed the problem for some DACs.
 

I suggest turning your DAC off completely for 10 seconds or so, and then turning it on. Make sure your DAC is fully on, my DAC takes a few seconds to reinitialise itself and then goes onto standby mode. Yours may just turn on and stay on.
Once your DAC is fully on and ready then Restart your computer to hopefully properly recognise your DAC.

Before starting Audirvana make sure that your DAC is fully recognised by your computer by checking the Audio Midi settings.
Set your DAC as default Output device, and also select/set the highest sample/bit rate your DAC is capable of.
Then start Audirvana + and check that A+ is displaying your DAC with all the sample rates it supports. If so you should be good to go.

This is the sequence I had to execute to get my system to work whenever my DAC wasn't recognised properly by OS/Audirvana+ after switching my DAC on from standby.

For the time being I'm using my DAC in its streamer mode until Apple fixes this problem, soon I hope!
I think if you keep your DAC on (ie don't switch it off or put it into standby) then you may not experience this problem. You may also have to keep the computer on too!
I believe the current OS fails to recognise some DACs properly when they are switched back on from standby.

Hope this helps.

Mev

 

[mevdinc]

6 minutes ago, miguelito said:

Suggest you shut down the computer (ie powered off completely) as opposed to a hot restart. If the hardware is in a bad state, only a cold restart will bring everything to a clean state. 

Thanks for the additional clarification.
That's correct and exactly what I meant by turning it off and leaving it off for 10 seconds.

[mevdinc]

8 hours ago, Brahmsian said:

Same here. Local files play at the correct sample rate. Problem is with Tidal and A+

Are you making sure A+ volume is set to Max? I remember reading sometime ago that it goes wrong if the volume is not set to MAX in A+ with hires and or DSD playback.
And also you could try checking/unchecking "Auto detect MQA devices" to see if that makes a difference.
You may have tried the above and more but just a thought.

[mevdinc]

Unfortunately, Apple's latest OS update also caused problems with USB/Audio devices although they seem to have put things right with the current release it's likely that there are still problems with some Software/Hardware combinations.

I haven't tried the Tidal app myself, I'll report my findings when I do later in the day.
 

[mevdinc]

5 hours ago, mdelrossi said:

El Capitan.

problems started out of the blue.

 

Just tested the TIDAL desktop app with my DAC and the playback seems fine for both CD and MQA files.
TIDAL device settings: Both Exclusive and Force Volume checked.
 

[mevdinc]

13 hours ago, spammythepig said:

Running Audirvana 3.2.6 on iMac OS 10.13.3 

Love my Audirvana, sounds great. But it very frequently PAUSES with about 3 seconds left in a track and won't proceed to the next song on the playlist. Cannot find the reason. Does anyone else have this problem and is there a fix? Thanks in advance.

 

I had this problem a long time ago when I had the Zodiac Gold DAC, I believe this problem is system/DAC dependent. I never experienced this pausing at end of tracks problem again since I changed my DAC.
I remember experimenting with the "spl rate switching latency" value, and it seemed to help sometimes. Can't be sure but you can try it yourselves, maybe 1.5s-2s may do it.

Good luck.

[mevdinc]

@damien, when I finish my listening I leave my Mac to go into Sleep mode with Audirvana still running but in Stop position.
I use the Audirvana Remote app to wakeup my MAC, it works every time but unfortunately, Audirvana always fails to connect to my TIDAL account.
I end up using my Laptop with screen share to quit and restart Audirvana and it connects to TIDAL fine.

My question; is there way you can allow us via the App to get rid of the error "cannot connect to TIDAL" and reconnect to TIDAL or even simply allow us to restart Audirvana on the MAC via the App?
Any suggestions/solutions would be great to get rid of this little but very annoying problem.

Otherwise, I'm enjoying the player and it works very well.

Many thanks.

Mev