Jud Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 This thing is great. I am glad he compiled it linked to libreadmind.dylib. Works better than any remote control. He knew you would say that. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 It's been days away for over a week now..... :-( Patience, Paduwan. (Yes, it is difficult to continue anticipating.) As I know you realize, it is not as if Damien is holding back. So as soon as it is ready to be released, it will be. (No, I don't know when that will happen.) One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 We'll all be happily using it whenever it's ready. I'm not testing any longer, so I'm in the same boat as everyone else. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Hi everybody,In the case you don't have MQA streaming used, does A+ V3 will have an interest compare to the V2.6 ?From what I understand, the V3 will replace the izotope decoder with the MQA decoder. Does the MQA decoder is better than the izotope ?Ieotope decoder has a strong reputation.I will certainly test the V3 but I am not sure this version have an interrest for me who stream music from Qobuz or use my local library. In order of your questions: - Damien has made changes with regard to sound quality. I have heard a test build and thought it was a significant improvement. - MQA will not replace iZotope. A+ will "unfold" MQA input to whatever resolution it is supposed to be (for example, from 16/48 to 24/96). Any further sample rate conversion will be done by iZotope (and mansr's sigma-delta modulators if you convert PCM to DSD), in accordance with your settings. - If you do not use MQA input, then sample rate conversion will be done exclusively by iZotope (and mansr's sigma-delta modulators if PCM -> DSD), in accordance with your settings. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I that were true for the market as a whole for these players then A+ (and nearly all of the others), would be charging way more money. I hope Damien does not decide to take your pricing advice. Boris75 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 The very high price of Roon limits its growth in the market, no matter how it sounds. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile I don't think this is true. We spend thousands of dollars on components and we also used to spend a lot on source material. Compared to this the price of Roon is very, very decent. Obviously we have someone who is part of Roon's market, and someone who is not. But this is aside from A+ v3, which is what we're discussing.... One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 My personal interest is the best sounding solutions within a reasonable price range. My funds are also limited. The problem with these kind of discussions is that those who find something to expensive or have invested a lot of time and effort in something, automatically have the tendency to protect and defend. That is normal human behaviour. Like I said, I am a long time A+ adept and will stay with the product if it realises the best sounding solution in my chain. At the moment it is not. I am not a Roon fanboy. In fact, I am using the free 2 month trial that came with my mRendu. I am open minded and willing to learn and adjust in this very fast moving digital audio world. I'm very much in Roon's market. Just observing its price, and to my ears comparable yet not superior audio quality, is not going to dominate our market anytime soon - which is good news for A+ and the others. I can afford Roon, just not compelled enough by what it does to pay. As for library management, yes, Roon wins the blue ribbon. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile For me, wrong on both counts I guess (who is and isn't in Roon's market). I tried out Roon for library management, but have never listened to its audio output, since I only ever tried it with HQPlayer. I suppose I am a man of simple tastes ( ), because I already knew most of the information Roon showed me, and I actually much prefer A+'s display of my music. However, I recognize many other people prefer the sort of information and organization Roon can do for them. Since software sample rate conversion and filtering is a way for me to get sound on a level meeting or exceeding the filtering and conversion of the best DACs at a much, much lower price, I don't foresee listening without it. However, back in the days when Audirvana wasn't yet "Plus" and didn't incorporate upsampling, I preferred it to other players because of specific steps Damien had taken to ensure good sound quality (something he continues to do today). Even without upsampling, with Roon's emphasis on UI, it is difficult for me to imagine that it would be as light on resources when playing music as A+. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I just ran into an issue. Damien and I are working on it. I hope I didn't delay the release :~( If there's an issue capable of repetition in a user's system, the delay would be worthwhile IMHO. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 All I have heard lately about A+ has to do with streaming. Is A+ going to be focused on streaming content? What is the future of the product? He seems to be betting his future on MQA. I listen to, primarily, local content in 16/44.1 PCM format. What about features that benefit people like me? Better library management is badly needed. Managing manual playlists is a joke. Is there a better more user-friendly player option out there for the Mac that offers equivalent or better SQ when using an upsampling DAC like the Schiit Audio Yggdrasil playing 16/44.1 PCM source material? The "headline feature" for 3.0 is MQA, and for 3.1 is streaming capability. But there is no diminution of the ability to play local files. For me the primary criterion has always been the sound. I've found no better SQ for Mac, and as I've mentioned previously, I've heard a beta (not using one now, waiting for the new release like everyone else) and felt the sound quality to be improved. (More than a little, by the way. I was not told by Damien; I heard the beta and asked if he'd done something to improve the sound.) Sorry to say I don't know what if any library management changes there have been, because I have for a long time had a fairly simple library management process that A+ works with very well, so my testing doesn't really explore those features. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 10 minutes after your post above Damien, A+ 2.6.6 is telling me it is the latest version as well. Maybe you shouldn't believe it in this case. (Seriously, good that you alerted everyone to the upgrade reminder not yet functioning.) One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 do I have to backup v2 library (... and preferences?), in case I want to go back, or v3 and v2 libraries are compatible? May as well back up in any case, yes? I *think* I recall the libraries being compatible, but am not certain as I sit here. (I am at home, but my wife has a bad cold and is resting in front of the TV, so no music for me until later. I'm typing in the office upstairs. ) One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 When you guys talk about improved sound quality in a given version of Audirvana are you talking about the default settings without upsampling? Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile Yep. See above where Damien talks about the audio playback engine, which does not reside in the iZotope upsampling capability. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Is it reasonable to assume that most users on this forum think upsampling in IZotope results in sound quality that is superior the audio playback engine? Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile The audio playback engine is used whether or not you upsample. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Damien, Why, when I set the software to do no upsampling, does it show that A+ 3.0 is sending Red Book content at 24/44.1 instead of 16/44.1? I want my DAC to do all of that, not the software. A+ 2.6 did not do this. This is not upsampling, it is "zero padding" (filling in the eight least significant bits with zero values), which doesn't change the sound any more than 1.00000000 has a different value than 1. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Well then, do most users think the result is better using upsampling or not in terms of ultimate sound quality? I assume many are just not willing to go through the process upsampling entails so Damien's tweeting matters to them. Since I do upsample May I assume the only possible difference in sound in 3.0 will relate to Tidal Masters played through the MQA process? Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile *The improved audio engine is used if you upsample or if you don't.*. So that is a sonic difference for you, entirely aside from the Tidal capability. (And yes, it helps to improve Tidal playback too.) Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 What huge process does up sampling entail? Playing with settings other than the defaults can be fun for some, but a bother for others. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 If have followed Jud and others as they have worked their way through Audirvana's many possibilities. If there is frustration it relates to the fact that all the Filter settings in Audirvana's iZotope engine are interactive with each other and they are also very equipment dependent. The results are rewarding, but you have to love tinkering. The filter settings being interactive is the way filtering works and therefore unfortunately can't be avoided. Same for at least some of the dependence on equipment, though one of my considerations in choosing a DAC is that I can feed it a signal upsampled in A+ and not have the DAC impose its own digital filtering. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 And I chose my DAC because of how it sounds with its own special digital filter. I want software to feed as original signal as it can to my DAC and let it do its thing in real time. A Mike Moffat design was the first DAC I bought 25+ years ago. I think very highly of his work. You guys give iZotope too much credit anyway. I didn't like how it sounded when I used a DAC in NOS mode compared to what the DAC did natively. And that was a $250 DAC. A producer who used to hang out here, Barry Diament, generally acknowledged to have made the best sounding Led Zeppelin and Bob Marley recordings ever (among many others), said that iZotope was the only software he used among the choices for similar functions that he thought was audibly transparent. Of course you don't need to take his word. Let's look at the sample rate conversion filtering's measured performance at SRC Comparisons : 1kHz tone: Passband: Transition band: Phase response: All about as damn near perfect as it is possible to be. Have a look at some of the measurements for other filters on that site. There are lots of them. You will not find a single one that measures better. Having your own preference is great, and no one (at least not me, anyway) wants to bother you about that. I've already mentioned what I think of Mike Moffat, and I've listened to Yggy and liked it. But please don't tell those of us using iZotope that we're giving it "too much credit." One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Jud, Do you mean by using the iZotope upsampling, the audio playback engine is not used ? In that case all audio optimisation made by Damien can't be heard ? I apparently am obscure when I am trying very hard to be plain. Whether you upsample or not, whether you are listening to MQA or not - in every situation in which you are listening to A+ version 3 - you are hearing the new, improved playback engine. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I didn't disparage those who like iZotope filters. I just don't bow down to them like they are the end all be all. I didn't like how it sounded compared to what my $250 DAC did on it's own. I don't care what anyone else uses. Use what you think sounds best. I, apparently, am not allowed to prefer what is in my DAC. I am obviously stupid for not preferring iZotope filters and NOS DACs. Please. You said people gave iZotope "too much credit," when what you meant was other folks like the results better than you did when you tried it. As I've said before - cool. Live and be well. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Jud, Would an MQA capable DAC offer any advantages over a DAC that was not MQA capable in use with Audirvana 3.0 playing MQA encoded files in Tidal? In my system MQA encoded Tidal files sound considerably better with Audirvana 3.0, than they did with Audirvana 2.6.6, but they are not on the same level as 24/96 or 24/192 downloads. I don't know the answer to that. I have never listened to an "MQA capable DAC." My listening experience with MQA files and A+ so far has been very similar to yours. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 So...here's a dumb question. How do I find the Tidal "Masters" on my remote app I believe it's a subhead of "New," but I could be wrong - will try to check later this afternoon or evening. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Are you saying this about non-MQA files? I just want to understand if you're excited about software decoded TIDAL MQA material, or non-MQA local/streaming input. Again... An improvement has been made in the A+ "playback engine." This is part of A+ itself, and is used whether you are listening to MQA or not, whether you are upsampling or not - any time you listen to A+ v 3.x, you are hearing the improved playback engine. If you don't hear a difference yourself, that's fine. My own subjective experience is that I agree with AudioDoctor, wwaldmanfan, etc., that the improvement is significant. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 It is, but that's just a subset of what MQA albums are available - with Beyoncé always first of course.I'm surprised that Tidal haven't provided someway of identifying the MQA albums given the publicity they gave to being able to stream MQA. Ah, so all the MQA versions aren't considered new at this point? Because I've found some old albums there. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 New just seems to mean new to Tidal, not newly released. Right, which is why I thought all the MQA albums, being new to Tidal, would be listed. Not, eh? Nothing like making your shiny new toys hard to find. But more on topic, does the "New" category in A+ and the A+ remote have the same albums as you find looking at the "New" category in the Tidal desktop app? 'Cause that's really all we can ask of Damien, I think - anything else is on the Tidal folks. There's a list of what's available here, but it's a crowd sourced list so probably doesn't include everything... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10VtON9VjMAt3uyHC2-Oo2MjIa3orv9DKZfwiRQKmTAA/htmlview# One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
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