Audirvana Plus 3 (official thread)

[watercourse]

I was also having this same problem with going back to 2.2.6 after demoing 3.2

 

It looks like RunHomeSlow has posted a solution to that which I shall try later.

 

On my system the new version does sound cleaner, there is more separation and seems to be a bigger sound stage, but it also has lost something in the low end, to where my system does not sound balanced any more, where as before it sounded spot on with anything I put through it.

Maybe I will need to start looking at the filter settings to try and get that low end richness back?

Hopefully I will have more time to play at the weekend, as I am currently moving Audivrana from my old do it all MacBook, to a dedicated Mac mini setup.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I found the same thing.

 

In 2.6.6, I had gotten to an overall balance I liked. With the trial version, the bass in particular has some pros and cons. I've not made up my mind whether there are problems or not, and haven't adjusted filter settings from previously.

 

The improvements are much more detailed, tight, and muscular bass, in the upper and middle registers. The lower bass seems to have lost some presence, but again I'm not certain yet whether this is good or bad and need to listen more (I'm traveling right now).

 

The soundstage has moved forward, but also increased in depth, and there is greater solidity of sonic images. Width seems to have decreased a tiny bit, but overall, I like the soundstage improvements.

 

More later when I get home!

[watercourse]

Follow-up Re: SQ of A+ v3.0.1 - at first I listened with same filter settings I used with v2.6.6. In v3.0.1, I found an increased transparency across frequencies, more realistic imaging, and increased soundstage depth. Bass, especially midbass, had better control and dynamics, but seemed to lose a bit of lowest extension. Upper bass textures were better resolved. Overall dynamics, micro and macro, are increased.
I found that on some albums the treble of cymbals and vocal sibilants were a touch forward and detracted from the positive SQ changes in v3.0.1. I decided to adjust steepness down a touch, and found a better balance for my system for addressing hot treble.

Regarding the lowest frequencies, I'm still not sure whether there is an issue here, because although the change is noticeable, it does not detract from enjoyment. YMMV, but I am now of the opinion that the overall SQ and transparency of this new version are real benefits.
I don't have an MQA DAC and little interest in that path, so I have no opinions to offer there.
Excellent work as usual Damien!

[watercourse]

1 hour ago, Booster MPS said:

No issues on 3.0.3 so far, all is running well on my end.  Thanks and sounds great.  

 

 

@watercourse or others, wouldn't you adjust the steepness of the filter the other way to address this concern or am I wrong?  Always willing to learn from others here.

Not in my experience, adjusting steepness down has the effect of rolling off treble response. Try and let us know if that is not the case for you.

The rest of my settings are pretty much default, and I use maximum upsampling and Integer Mode 1. My dac is limited to 24/192, PCM only.

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8 hours ago, alcarp said:

Do you mind sharing your settings?

Hopefully this is legible. Bel Canto DAC3, with Regen, ULink and BNC connection.

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46 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

 

I always thought v2 was pretty close to neutral response, and it is worrying if I was that wrong. It sounds from descriptions like this as if a calibration recording is needed, to set a neutral response, e.g in conjunction with a frequency monitor program and calibration mic., otherwise it is rather random setting by ear against a piece of music.

 

As for the bass, whether reduced extension at the bottom detracts from enjoyment no doubt depends on how much any individual likes to hear the very bottom uncurtailed...

No doubt, some kind of reference is always valuable. I had a Behringer DEQ2496 and analyzed the last configuration of my system, and it was enlightening: perfectly flat response is not how you would think it sounds. And Jim Smith and others have had similar thoughts.

Not having the Behringer any more, I now like to calibrate with live music. I know Dave Holland's bass sound very well from over 20 years of listening to him live and on recordings. I use Mr. Holland as my reference for acoustic bass recordings, which, from the standpoint of A+ v3 playback, sounds like good ole Dave Holland.

But, if you're listening to Bill Laswell, Lee Perry, Meshell, or Thundercat, how do you know what sounds like the "original", when it's unlikely you'll hear the musicians playing in front of you for reference? I think you go with what moves you.

@Innocent Bystander, when you are comparing one rendition of synthetic sounds to another, without the opportunity for an objective measure, you have to use the ultimate measure: does it please you?

One other thing: center fill and sonic density have never been as good as now, which really increases the enjoyment factor for me.

[watercourse]

37 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Why would you want to do that? Surely the goal is to find the most accurate conversion of the encoded file of digitally recorded music into an analogue signal, and contantly tweaking suggests it not working. Or do you mean you're effectively using the process as DSP, in effect tone control, to adjust individual recordings to a sound that pleases you? The two are very different, though of course neither is wrong, as it is all about musical enjoyment.

 

in my view the DAC designers do their best, and at least with the upper echelon that means a lot of listening, while renderer designers do likewise, and I was under the impression that A+ is the result of listening not just theoretical, however perhaps I am wrong and it is just coincidence when any given version sounds right with the recommended settings?

I don't change settings often, as I don't have that many DSD recordings, but I have enough DSD files to notice that one size does not fit all when it comes to filter settings. Top end energy is not the same IME between DSD and PCM: if you tend to listen to complete albums at a time, you might want to tweak settings based on media characteristics.

Also, you have mentioned "accuracy" a couple of times in posts now, and by that I assume you mean tonal accuracy. I neglected to respond earlier, but I also agree that A+ 2.6.6 is tonally accurate. However, compared to my reference Bel Canto PL1, computer playback still lacked the finesse/realism of more holographic soundstaging, denser images, and relaxed presentation compared to my reference. These factors are difficult to measure or quantify, and sometimes only apparent by A/B comparisons. 

A+ v3 is still a step back from my reference, but a lot closer than v2.6.6. The difference could be down to my computer source, power supply, or other potential factors that I have not fully explored as of now, and not necessarily the software. I may also not yet have hit upon the magic filter combo. But when I don't directly compare to my reference, I don't perceive deficiencies in the same way as I did with 2.6.6.

[watercourse]

On 3/20/2017 at 7:16 PM, RunHomeSlow said:

Broken Pipe bug still happening with 3.0.3 if i check ''Disable Spotlight'' in System Optimizer.

This happened to me on my SD card boot of Yosemite only. Once I unchecked the Disable Spotlight, I also got the message that Integer Mode was not available, so had to uncheck this.

 

Neither of these bugs occur on my SSD boot of Yosemite running 3.03.

[watercourse]

37 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said:

 

when i have the broken pipe bug... mine after clicking the window music will just play... but i don't take chances losing quality... so i just quit A+ and restart it... not the MAC... usually the message not come back ??  :-) all play fine... again not seen it today

Well, I got it playing after unchecking both disable spotlight and integer mode... but then while it is playing, I can restart both disable spotlight and integer mode with no problems.

I will report if it happens again.

[watercourse]

13 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

 

I think checking something while A+ is playing like unable Direct Mode in sierra while you didn't change the extension is not working even if enable... the next time you restart is not working... better always i think, restarting A+ when changing something in prefs panel just to be sure  :-)

No problems at all now, maybe just a one-time conflict.

 

BTW, more listening has led to some additional filter tweaks (see below). Sounds amazing!

 

[watercourse]

12 minutes ago, Yucca06 said:

mmmm...so try this :

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/audirvana-how-select-izotope-settings-30230/

 

YMMV. A lot of the recommended settings I've seen, especially steepness being set too low, tends to lead to a high freq roll-off and loss of air. However, I do agree that starting off with someone else's settings is a good starting point for refining in your own system.

[watercourse]

11 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said:

 

Trying it... all settings sound pretty good with my DAC ?? i'm upsampling to DSD128.

 

With the above settings, I'm finally getting the creamy but detailed top end that my Bel Canto PL1 delivers to my DAC3 via AES/EBU, while retaining the bass fulsomeness and punch.

 

These settings do work as well for DOP, but again, my sense is that DSD tends to have rolled off highs in the first place, kind of like using a step up transformer with your low output moving coil instead of using an active gain stage.

 

@RunHomeSlowI may get a DSD DAC at some point, and have to start this all over again ;-)

[watercourse]

3 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said:

 

You lose me there  :-)

i had so many troubles upsampling like you PCM x 2 i could never have no hiccups are music stopped while playing when going to 352/384 but all was fine till 176/192. Was happy not having problems like that when A+ offer that Upsampling DSD128. i was playing with JRiver that could do that also at the time with no problems, but with JRiver also had problems in PCM 352/384, Arf!. i'll try again with 3.0.3 if the problems are gone  :-)

Wow, I guess I am lucky I've had pretty smooth sailing with upsampling, just tweaking to the preferred sound.

 

I made the analogy with LOMC and phono stages with DSD sonics because I do think DSD tends to sound warmer and possibly more analog, but IME more like tape than vinyl.

 

Cue the sound of a can of worms opening...

[watercourse]

3 hours ago, mevdinc said:

I also think there should be a better way to check for license validation.
I'm sure Damien will come up with a more practical and reasonable solution.

Agreed. Another solution would be appreciated in my implementation.

[watercourse]

12 minutes ago, Jud said:

For those of you who mind an application or OS checking with a server:

 

- Do you use any computer for anything other than listening to music?

 

- What OS and (main) apps do you use?

 

 I am pretty sure you will find that a great many of your OSs and apps are doing this.

On my dual boot Mini, the SD card is only for music... I'm actually keeping it on a closed local network, using wifi only for A+ remote.

The SSD boot side can be considered the multipurpose side, but the entire machine is getting long in the tooth and better as a dedicated music maker.

I'd rather not have the reminders even from Apple that I need to update my OS when I want to stay on Yosemite.

[watercourse]

I'm quite happy with the sound quality of V3, and have no real issues with the library. However, I'm trying to keep my computer audio setup from requiring internet connection, as I am not very interested in streaming right now, nor in MQA. My entire library is local, and I'd like to keep it that way. K.I.S.S.

[watercourse]

13 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Wondering if there is a way for folks who have a setup like yours or similar (in other words, the music computer is seldom if ever connected to the internet) to present the server's query and the music computer's response through an "intermediary," like an SD card or another computer on the home network?

Hi Jud,

I appreciate your trying to navigate us towards workable solutions!

Just to clarify, I do have my computer currently online - I would just like to take steps to make everything more secure/local.

In the past, I had entertained using a microRendu, SMS-200 or the like, but with the combo of A+ V3's improved sound quality, and the UpTone LPS-1 powering the Regen, I'm not sure the possible incremental increase in SQ from an ethernet renderer is my next step, if I must maintain internet access. Instead, I would focus on improving the PSU quality in my Mini and keep it within my local network. This means the SD card is probably my go-to solution paired with UpTone's DC conversion kit, and possibly another LPS-1.

[watercourse]

28 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

 

It's really not intrusive, more of an inconvenience for some.

+1

In my case, if I have to connect my dedicated music computer only to be able to continue using software that I've already paid for, it's a big pain.

I already get regular reminders for OS updates that I don't want, and disconnecting my mac from the interwebs is the best solution to deal with this.

Really has nothing to do with sinister intrusiveness - I have many other computers and devices that can track my every move, I just want my dedicated A+ machine to transport me away from the real world, like the Calgon bubble bath commercial ;-)

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12 minutes ago, Musicophile said:

While I think the regular license validation issue may have been blown a bit out of proportion here (my guess is that it is a non issue to more than 80% of the user base and I don't believe Damien has any incentive of spying on us), I must admit I'm personally struggling to understand WHY the software needs to do the regular checks, with a business model that is based on a one off purchase. 

 

The rationale for regular checking is obvious in a subscription model, but here the entire purpose of this completely escapes me. 

Same here.

My best wild ass guess is that it has something to do with what seems to be the focus on streaming as a core function of A+ v3 compared to previous versions.

[watercourse]

Just now, Jud said:

 

I don't even eff around with genre, having found, as you say, that it's a horrible muddle, metadatically speaking.  I was not willing to work hard enough to get it changed to my liking for all my music.  I think this means people who depend on genre will either have to do a lot of metadata work or wait for a version of A+ that uses folder structure.

 

I can attest to having done, and continuing to do, a lot of metadata work to use the genre category. But once done, it works like a charm and I use it all the time without issue.

[watercourse]

28 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Curious, what are your genres?

Actually, in my case it was going back to my 20,000 or so ripped .wav files a few times circa v2 to make sure that it worked with A+. Even though it had worked with previous A+ versions, as well as Kid3, some fields (genre, multiple discs, song artist) just did not translate. And to make sure they never caused me problems again, I converted all .wav files to flac.

@Innocent BystanderNot to diminish your desire to stay away from metadata tinkering, I eventually simplified my genre classifications (e.g. all classical albums are now "classical" rather than "piano", "concerto" or what have you) so that I could finish it without losing my mind and/or eyesight. It took weeks and was no fun. Luckily, since then, my rips using XLD have all "stuck" moving from 2.6 to 3, and continue to behave.

[watercourse]

OK bug report:

I have a smart playlist sorted by genres, and like to play back in random order. However, in both 3.0.4 and 3.0.5, I am finding that when selecting a track from the Play Queue to view its metadata, the metadata panel does not show the information for the selected track. So the metadata panel is not syncing with the Play Queue.

My best guess is that the metadata appears to be synced to the Smart Playlist primary sorting fields rather than what the actual Play Queue is displaying.

[watercourse]

OK, more bug report info for @damien78:

In any playlist, if I am listening via random playback, and want to look at metadata for track #10 of the random sort, it displays the metadata for track #10 as it was added to the playlist, rather than the 10th track of the random playback order.

This happens with manual as well as smart playlists.

 

Can anyone else reproduce this problem?

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1 hour ago, wwaldmanfan said:

 

If you aren't happy with Audirvana, you can get Amarra Symphony ($649) for free off the torrent sites, too. LOL

 

Too bad Amarra doesn't sound like A+, or it might be an option!

[watercourse]

8 minutes ago, wwaldmanfan said:

 

A former employer of mine, who was a cheapskate, used to say, "It tastes better when it's free."

 

I have a six-pack of Billy Beer that he'd love.

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22 minutes ago, edtsui said:

While it will create some problems for me since I use A+ on my iMac with a headphone most of the time and listen through my stereo system with a headless Mac mini only once in while and may have problems with the 15 days checkup, I fully understand Damien's need for regular validation.  I like A+ SQ and Damien constant effort to make it a better software for all us.  I hope we will all be more understanding and more appreciative of his work and his need to safeguard his legitimate interests as a software developer.  I for one will continue to concentrate on listening to music through this wonderful software.  Perhaps Damien can change the periodicity of validation to once a month and that should cover most of us.  Thanks.

 

Monthly should be ok with me.