The Computer Audiophile Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 View full article Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
ChrisG Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Interesting that you list Roon as a source. I searched your article and Roon only comes up under "Associated Equipment", but not that you used it with the A10. If I remember correctly, Aurender doesn't support Roon and that's a deal breaker for a lot of us. I'm curious why that's not mentioned in your review. ChrisG Bend, OR Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Interesting that you list Roon as a source. I searched your article and Roon only comes up under "Associated Equipment", but not that you used it with the A10. If I remember correctly, Aurender doesn't support Roon and that's a deal breaker for a lot of us. I'm curious why that's not mentioned in your review. I used Roon to stream Internet radio to the A10 via AirPlay. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
nicoff Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Interesting that you list Roon as a source. I searched your article and Roon only comes up under "Associated Equipment", but not that you used it with the A10. If I remember correctly, Aurender doesn't support Roon and that's a deal breaker for a lot of us. I'm curious why that's not mentioned in your review. I also searched the article for "Roon" and found no mention as you stated. If this Aurender unit were Roon-ready, it would be at the top of my list for consideration for my new music player/streamer. Since it is not, I will pass. Link to comment
TimU Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 So the Van Morrison album discussed in the review is titled "Astral Weeks" for those that may have wondered. Link to comment
jmudrick Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 +10 for mention of Richard Davis' bass. My favorite album of all time. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk FLAC -> Jplay-> Jkeny Mk3 -> Audio-GD Ref 5->Hornshoppe Truth -> Music Reference EM7-> Hornshoppe Horned Heils Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 So the Van Morrison album discussed in the review is titled "Astral Weeks" for those that may have wondered. I added a note to the review, just below the final words about Madame George. Thanks Tim! Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
One and a half Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I felt the review highlighted MQA and Tidal more rather than the A10's performance which was more of a sideline. In particular the relationship between the A10 and pre and power amps wasn't clear enough (for me), a little more elaboration just a paragraph would have been fine to clear up either way. Copying a file from a NAS to the local drive in the A10 makes technical sense which implies playing over the network has a limitation on SQ? To setup to play from the local drive involving copying first is a drag on spontaneity. As for DSD256, I would not part with cash until the A10 played this rate with no hiccups, promises, promises are often empty words. "For some listeners, it may be time to ditch the Mac Mini and external DAC, in favor of an all-in-one A10." Here, here, amen to that. Just looking for the right product to come along, the A10 is not it for me. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
HDgeorge Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Roon is not for everybody. I care more for performance and listen to music not browsing while listening to music. And Aurender serves best in that area. A10 is a great device. It substituted my Mac with all possible modifications+ dCS Debussy dac. It was intended for my secondary system but I am stunned about its dac performance. And I am using it also in my main system, for the moment. Couldn't believe how much better played the A10's dac vs dCS Debussy. I already new the server/streamer because I use to have the X100 in main system. Great review Chris, I'm not into MQA for the moment, but my files and tidal steaming are a real joy through A10. My trouble now is upgrading the main system using N10 or another A10 with a "heavyweight" dac (from EmmLabs/Meitner & dCS). Link to comment
michaelD Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I felt the review highlighted MQA and Tidal more rather than the A10's performance which was more of a sideline. In particular the relationship between the A10 and pre and power amps wasn't clear enough (for me), a little more elaboration just a paragraph would have been fine to clear up either way. Copying a file from a NAS to the local drive in the A10 makes technical sense which implies playing over the network has a limitation on SQ? To setup to play from the local drive involving copying first is a drag on spontaneity. As for DSD256, I would not part with cash until the A10 played this rate with no hiccups, promises, promises are often empty words. "For some listeners, it may be time to ditch the Mac Mini and external DAC, in favor of an all-in-one A10." Here, here, amen to that. Just looking for the right product to come along, the A10 is not it for me. I agree that there was not enough info on the A10 itself. This is a pretty special unit that just so happens to stream Tidal and the new kid on the block MQA. I think because several other Aurender products have been reviewed that somehow it's just assumed the reader knows some of the great aspects of a Aurender product. 2 Channel: Bricasti M20, 21 & M28 SE /Aurender N30SA and MC10 Master clock Treatments: Acoustical panels(F, S & R walls) Misc.: SR Master Fuses Speakers: Martin Logan CLX ART (Dark Cherry) w/30# weights / 2-ML 212's Grounding: QKore 1&6 / Networking: SOtM switch, clock and Pwr Supply / AQ Diamond /SR Router Power: Furutech GTX-DNCF / Oyaide inwall wire Nordost: 2-QB8 III, QV2's, QK1's, QSine, QWave, QX4, TC Kones, Sort Fut & LIft / Full OG Loom / 3-QSource & 12-QPoints, QNet, V2 Network Misc.: iPad 6 /Custom Rack Media Rm: ML: 13A's, 2-Descent i's, 6- Vanquish, Focus / 3-Parasound A23 / Legacy iV-3 Ultra / 77" LG 4k OLED / Anthem AVM90 / Pioneer Elite DVD Nordost: Odin/T2/H2, BC Kones, H2 Network, V2 HDMI Link to comment
Cycleman Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I agree that there was not enough info on the A10 itself. This is a pretty special unit that just so happens to stream Tidal and the new kid on the block MQA. I think because several other Aurender products have been reviewed that somehow it's just assumed the reader knows some of the great aspects of a Aurender product. For me, the fact that other Aurender products have been reviewed means I would have loved to hear some comments in this review about how the sound quality of the A10 compares to the two Aurender units above and below it in cost. That is, the N10 and the N100H. For example, the N10 has double the solid-state memory of the A10; and if memory serves, the N10 has more isolation for its outputs. While an all-in-one package like the A10 makes sense for a lot of people, the N10 made sense for me for two key reasons: I already owned an excellent, high-end DAC. That was the Berkeley Ref Series 1, and is now the Chord DAVE. The multiple digital outputs on the N10 - one each of the five main types - gives me many options, including using separate outputs to the DAVE and to other units, such as headphone amp/DACs. Other reasons why an included DAC, as with the A10, doesn't attract me is that DACs are ever evolving. It's the same reason why an amp with a built-in DAC could be shortsighted too. That said, I've found the Aurender servers to offer a great blend of sound quality, ease of use, and solid, no-need-to-tweek-or-regularly-reboot operation. Yes, the Aurender Conductor app can improve, and likely will. But for now, I've found it better, with more controls and logical structure, than other iOS apps, including the Lumin and iPeng and Audirvana Plus apps. Dave, who originally bought an Aurender N100H in late 2015 and sold it after one month because he loved it so much he bought the N10 instead and then went on to buy another N100H for his secondary system ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Music is love, made audible. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Link to comment
firedog Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I also think they are limiting themselves by not making the device Roon friendly. I've only read about their app, but I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with it as my main playback interface. Same goes for the Auralic devices, which is why I didn't buy one when they came out. But they've gotten on board with Roon. I understand why companies want users to use "their" software. And I understand they don't want to support other software. But consumers should have choice of the playback interface. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
michaelD Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I also think they are limiting themselves by not making the device Roon friendly. I've only read about their app, but I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with it as my main playback interface. Same goes for the Auralic devices, which is why I didn't buy one when they came out. But they've gotten on board with Roon. I understand why companies want users to use "their" software. And I understand they don't want to support other software. But consumers should have choice of the playback interface. Two comments: 1. You have only read about the Aurender app if you ever tried it I think you may have another opinion. They have a rock solid ever improving product. Those who use it including myself consider it the best out there. Sure they need to add some more features but what is there is very good and surpasses the competition by a lot. Combined with the hardware it's awesome. 2. Everyone please get off the Roon request. There are good reasons why Aurender has not incorporated it and I for one support that decision. Going their own way to be the best music servers you can buy at any price point has served them well. I give them credit to not get involved with Roon and so far their business instinct has been right on. 2 Channel: Bricasti M20, 21 & M28 SE /Aurender N30SA and MC10 Master clock Treatments: Acoustical panels(F, S & R walls) Misc.: SR Master Fuses Speakers: Martin Logan CLX ART (Dark Cherry) w/30# weights / 2-ML 212's Grounding: QKore 1&6 / Networking: SOtM switch, clock and Pwr Supply / AQ Diamond /SR Router Power: Furutech GTX-DNCF / Oyaide inwall wire Nordost: 2-QB8 III, QV2's, QK1's, QSine, QWave, QX4, TC Kones, Sort Fut & LIft / Full OG Loom / 3-QSource & 12-QPoints, QNet, V2 Network Misc.: iPad 6 /Custom Rack Media Rm: ML: 13A's, 2-Descent i's, 6- Vanquish, Focus / 3-Parasound A23 / Legacy iV-3 Ultra / 77" LG 4k OLED / Anthem AVM90 / Pioneer Elite DVD Nordost: Odin/T2/H2, BC Kones, H2 Network, V2 HDMI Link to comment
slingshot Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I have a lifetime subscription to Roon but I am not married to it. I don't do anything fancy with it, I just play music. I am sitting here with 1,500 ISO files which Roon cannot play based on my latest research. JRiver can play these files but I don't want to use two different software programs. It would take a long time to convert them. Apparently the the Aurender software will convert it per Chris' article a few years ago. Computer Audiophile - Aurender W20 Review Roon software, Lenovo TS 440 server, IPad Air 2 for remote control and Dell 2340T display, Dell Latitude 7140 tablet (Windows 8.1, 256 SSD and 8 GB RAM) with Dell docking station, Aqua Hifi LaScala mk ii DAC, Allnic L 5000 DHT preamp, Shaker Logic Attune with two outputs for the amplifiers, Vitus SS-101 mk ii amp, Bosendorfer VC-7 speakers and Focal Sub Utopia Be subwoofer. Link to comment
michaelD Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Just a couple of more comments on the A10. I have not heard it yet but sure it will be at Axpona in someone's room maybe several. Knowing the quality products that Aurender designs I would think you would be hard pressed to find separates including the interconnect cable that will be even close in sonic performance for the dollars invested and then when you add in the app it's not even close. 2 Channel: Bricasti M20, 21 & M28 SE /Aurender N30SA and MC10 Master clock Treatments: Acoustical panels(F, S & R walls) Misc.: SR Master Fuses Speakers: Martin Logan CLX ART (Dark Cherry) w/30# weights / 2-ML 212's Grounding: QKore 1&6 / Networking: SOtM switch, clock and Pwr Supply / AQ Diamond /SR Router Power: Furutech GTX-DNCF / Oyaide inwall wire Nordost: 2-QB8 III, QV2's, QK1's, QSine, QWave, QX4, TC Kones, Sort Fut & LIft / Full OG Loom / 3-QSource & 12-QPoints, QNet, V2 Network Misc.: iPad 6 /Custom Rack Media Rm: ML: 13A's, 2-Descent i's, 6- Vanquish, Focus / 3-Parasound A23 / Legacy iV-3 Ultra / 77" LG 4k OLED / Anthem AVM90 / Pioneer Elite DVD Nordost: Odin/T2/H2, BC Kones, H2 Network, V2 HDMI Link to comment
nicoff Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I have a lifetime subscription to Roon but I am not married to it. I don't do anything fancy with it, I just play music. I am sitting here with 1,500 ISO files which Roon cannot play based on my latest research. JRiver can play these files but I don't want to use two different software programs. It would take a long time to convert them. Apparently the the Aurender software will convert it per Chris' article a few years ago. Computer Audiophile - Aurender W20 Review The article says that the Aurender will make the ISO to DSF conversion and then delete the ISO file. So you might want to store a copy of the ISO file somewhere. I am not sure how high in Ron's agenda is to add management and playback of ISO files. But you can do batch conversions of ISO files using free software like iso2dsd. I do not have as many ISO files as you do, but it is a process suitable to be done in discrete batches overnight. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile Link to comment
slingshot Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Just a couple of more comments on the A10. I have not heard it yet but sure it will be at Axpona in someone's room maybe several. Knowing the quality products that Aurender designs I would think you would be hard pressed to find separates including the interconnect cable that will be even close in sonic performance for the dollars invested and then when you add in the app it's not even close. I just saw that a friend who is dealer sells it, so I can listen to it at his listening room. It also has a LAN connection for my network. I was thinking about buying a micro Rendu and a good power supply when I saw this. I am definitely interested in it. Roon software, Lenovo TS 440 server, IPad Air 2 for remote control and Dell 2340T display, Dell Latitude 7140 tablet (Windows 8.1, 256 SSD and 8 GB RAM) with Dell docking station, Aqua Hifi LaScala mk ii DAC, Allnic L 5000 DHT preamp, Shaker Logic Attune with two outputs for the amplifiers, Vitus SS-101 mk ii amp, Bosendorfer VC-7 speakers and Focal Sub Utopia Be subwoofer. Link to comment
slingshot Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The article says that the Aurender will make the ISO to DSF conversion and then delete the ISO file. So you might want to store a copy of the ISO file somewhere.I am not sure how high in Ron's agenda is to add management and playback of ISO files. But you can do batch conversions of ISO files using free software like iso2dsd. I do not have as many ISO files as you do, but it is a process suitable to be done in discrete batches overnight. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile Yes, I have them on three 6TB external Hard Drives. My plan is to load them onto my Lenovo server which will have 24 TB of space and then make another back-up of the music. I have used iso2dsd before but the time involved is too much. Over time I could do it. There is Russian program that will convert it to PCM which I have used but it takes 10 or 15 minutes for each album. This has a batch program also but I not sure how good it is. The music would probably sound better if not done on the fly. Roon has said ISO conversion has a low priority and I don't think they will do it. I guess it complicates the tagging. Roon software, Lenovo TS 440 server, IPad Air 2 for remote control and Dell 2340T display, Dell Latitude 7140 tablet (Windows 8.1, 256 SSD and 8 GB RAM) with Dell docking station, Aqua Hifi LaScala mk ii DAC, Allnic L 5000 DHT preamp, Shaker Logic Attune with two outputs for the amplifiers, Vitus SS-101 mk ii amp, Bosendorfer VC-7 speakers and Focal Sub Utopia Be subwoofer. Link to comment
miguelito Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 It was mentioned before, but I will add my voice: No Roon no dice! Seriously, people, how hard is this? NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
miguelito Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I also think they are limiting themselves by not making the device Roon friendly. I've only read about their app, but I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with it as my main playback interface. Same goes for the Auralic devices, which is why I didn't buy one when they came out. But they've gotten on board with Roon. I understand why companies want users to use "their" software. And I understand they don't want to support other software. But consumers should have choice of the playback interface. I actually have NO idea why anyone would want to produce their own library management software. Ok maybe for basic operability before people discover Roon... NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
Gadgety Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 ...playing Elton John's acoustic version of Candle in the Wind. This version has been available in a few different formats over the years and on the Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (40th Anniversary Celebration/ Super Deluxe Edition). I have the 24 bit / 96 kHz, DSD, and Redbook (Tidal) versions. The acoustic version is producer Greg Penny's 2003 remix of the original, recorded in France on May 7, 1973...Quiet, clean, and incredibly engaging is an accurate description of what I heard playing this track over and over through the A10. I thought the 24/96 version, or SACD/DSD versions would be fantastic, offering greater fidelity and dynamic range. I then check the DR database, and am appalled that the greatest DR versions are the Redbook CD editions from 1984-1992. From then on it's all downhill. The 2003 version is found on DVD-A or SACD. The DVD-A 24/96, on a scale that goes from 1-20, lists a DR of 11, peak of 13, peak of 12. The SACD version even worse, with a DR of 9. Meanwhile those 1984-1992 CD versions are listed at DR 13, with peaks of 16. Perhaps it doesn't matter for an acoustic rendition, nevertheless, really disappointing. Album list - Dynamic Range Database Link to comment
firedog Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Two comments: 1. You have only read about the Aurender app if you ever tried it I think you may have another opinion. They have a rock solid ever improving product. Those who use it including myself consider it the best out there. Sure they need to add some more features but what is there is very good and surpasses the competition by a lot. Combined with the hardware it's awesome. 2. Everyone please get off the Roon request. There are good reasons why Aurender has not incorporated it and I for one support that decision. Going their own way to be the best music servers you can buy at any price point has served them well. I give them credit to not get involved with Roon and so far their business instinct has been right on. 1. Nope. Very clear to me it doesn't do some of the things I want. That's fine. I'm sure it's very good at what it does. It just isn't for me. 2. "the best music servers you can buy at any price point"; is an extemely debateable point, to say the least.... Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
firedog Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I thought the 24/96 version, or SACD/DSD versions would be fantastic, offering greater fidelity and dynamic range. I then check the DR database, and am appalled that the greatest DR versions are the Redbook CD editions from 1984-1992. From then on it's all downhill. The 2003 version is found on DVD-A or SACD. The DVD-A 24/96, on a scale that goes from 1-20, lists a DR of 11, peak of 13, peak of 12. The SACD version even worse, with a DR of 9. Meanwhile those 1984-1992 CD versions are listed at DR 13, with peaks of 16. Perhaps it doesn't matter for an acoustic rendition, nevertheless, really disappointing. Album list - Dynamic Range Database Doubt you will hear any difference in dynamics between an album rated 12 and 13 DR when min DR is either 10 or 11, respectively. SHM-SACD rating there is 12, and the rating was done with a format conversion to PCM. So possibly not an accurate portrayal of the DR of the actual SACD. Sadly, for many albums the 80's and early 90's CDs are the only digital versions where DR hasn't been compromised. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
cjf Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Anyone know what Aurender's policy is about the end User making changes to the internal HDD's under the following situations: 1. It fails 2. They want a bigger one 3. They want a faster one A followup question would be if anyone knows if the device offers any means for preparing a new harddrive once its been inserted and if any of the main OS components used by the device itself are located on a different drive/rom/usb stick other then the drives used for music storage and or caching? Im not a potential customer for an all in one device like this but there is certainly a market for it. My bone to pick about these esoteric priced All in one devices is that they happen to hold multiple computer components which are archived every 6mo due to the rapid advances still being made in those areas of technology. This may not necessarily be a bad thing as long as the manufacturer allows the End User to make his/her own adjustments to the storage..etc without needing to send the box back to the the maker or be worried about voiding its warranty by attempting to keep the device compatible with the rest of the world around it. My Audio System -Last Updated May 20 2021 Link to comment
Ventoux Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 No Roon = No Go for me, and many others. Link to comment
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