Jump to content
IGNORED

HQPlayer Linux Desktop and HQplayer embedded


ted_b

Recommended Posts

 

On 8/3/2020 at 7:33 AM, Timbre Lock said:

Today I'll try to find time to listen to music stored in HDD only and see if it happens as well. The routine I decided:

 

1. HDD music using Ultra Rendu;

2. If it "gaps", HDD music without Ultra Rendu. 

 

In addition, I'll try to to tests 3 and 4: to listen to the routine bove using the iFi DAC instead of T+A. I really don't think it's the guilty one, but just in case...

 

Today I've turned the system on and let it playing on background while I was working.

 

1. At first, I was using Ultra Rendu sending data to my DAC - but listening only to internal HDD songs (Tidal disabled, not in the signal path). At about 45 min of listening, the "gap" appeared. That brief moment of silence.

 

2. So then I decided to take off the Ultra Rendu from the signal path, using only my Small Green sonicTransporter connected to DAC directly via USB (so, now, it was Tidal and Ultra Rendu disabled, not in the signal path). After doing so, I'm on the 4th hour of continuous listening without having any gap. Music is playing flawless, and I already have changed album several times.

 

I think I can conclude, with a certain degree of secure, that the problem is narrowed to Network (hardware and/or NAA protocol configurations) or the Ultra Rendu itself (or the way it dialogs with the rest of the links on the path). I can assume Tidal is not guilty on it, because, as I said on the item 1 above, music "gapped" while I was listening to internal HDD songs as well (but using Ultra Rendu).

 

If anyone has any suggestions or help, I'd be most glad to hear.

 

Best regards.

Link to comment
39 minutes ago, Timbre Lock said:

 

 

Today I've turned the system on and let it playing on background while I was working.

 

1. At first, I was using Ultra Rendu sending data to my DAC - but listening only to internal HDD songs (Tidal disabled, not in the signal path). At about 45 min of listening, the "gap" appeared. That brief moment of silence.

 

2. So then I decided to take off the Ultra Rendu from the signal path, using only my Small Green sonicTransporter connected to DAC directly via USB (so, now, it was Tidal and Ultra Rendu disabled, not in the signal path). After doing so, I'm on the 4th hour of continuous listening without having any gap. Music is playing flawless, and I already have changed album several times.

 

I think I can conclude, with a certain degree of secure, that the problem is narrowed to Network (hardware and/or NAA protocol configurations) or the Ultra Rendu itself (or the way it dialogs with the rest of the links on the path). I can assume Tidal is not guilty on it, because, as I said on the item 1 above, music "gapped" while I was listening to internal HDD songs as well (but using Ultra Rendu).

 

If anyone has any suggestions or help, I'd be most glad to hear.

 

Best regards.

Interesting read about this issue.  Not sure if I have a suggestion, but consider this as another data point.

 

I have not run into this issue using either HQPlayer Desktop or HQPlayer Embedded, and this is either connect to DAC via NAA or direct.  When connect to NAA, I have used two different model of Intel NUC with either Audiolinux or HQPlayer NAA as OS.  The only possible suggestion is to try using a different computer as NAA and see if this will help rule out the Ultra Rendu being the culprit.

Link to comment
23 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Interesting read about this issue.  Not sure if I have a suggestion, but consider this as another data point.

 

I have not run into this issue using either HQPlayer Desktop or HQPlayer Embedded, and this is either connect to DAC via NAA or direct.  When connect to NAA, I have used two different model of Intel NUC with either Audiolinux or HQPlayer NAA as OS.  The only possible suggestion is to try using a different computer as NAA and see if this will help rule out the Ultra Rendu being the culprit.

Hello there, elan120. Thanks for your help, it sure is a very good idea. Unfortunately I'm unable to do this test right now. I'll try to find another computer to use as NAA endpoint. I sure have a Dell notebook somewhere around the house, using win10.

 

Nevertheless, after hours and hours playing flawless, I think it's time to move forward and introduce a new element to the path: so, I'll start using Tidal and see if it remais perfect as is with the internal HDD files. I'll play Tidal through mConnect Player, which finds the HQPe via UPnP. The audio chain will remain the same as it is now and working perfect: Small Green sonicTransporter connected to T+A DAC 8 DSD directly via USB cable. Ultra Rendu remains disabled, not in the signal path.

 

Let's see how it goes... I'll come back to let you know.

Link to comment

Well... 2 hours have passed, lots of Tidal songs from different albums have been played, and it's working flawless with no Rendu on the audio path (music streamed from Tidal using mConnect Player mobile app and upsampled to DSD 512 on HQPe inside sonicTransporter - plugged to DAC using USB cable, no NAA whatsoever).

 

Which leads me to think that it's NOT network issues, otherwise Tidal would not be playing perfect as it is (after all, it's running on the very same network, with nothing altered). 

 

I am inclined to think that the Ultra Rendu is the guilty one. But... what could be the problem? 

Link to comment

Sounds like you are closer to the culprit, and by using another computer as NAA could help confirm that.

 

20 minutes ago, Timbre Lock said:

But... what could be the problem? 

 

Not knowing Ultra Rendu enough, so just taking a wild guess, one possible problem is it doesn't have enough memories (RAMs) to buffer music file.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, elan120 said:

Sounds like you are closer to the culprit, and by using another computer as NAA could help confirm that.

 

 

Not knowing Ultra Rendu enough, so just taking a wild guess, one possible problem is it doesn't have enough memories (RAMs) to buffer music file.

Not sure if it's the case, since I ran "-2s" HQPe filters and even DSD 256 to see if it was CPU issues. But even with lower sample rates the problem remais. :(

Link to comment

As I told you, yesterday I spent all day listening to music without experiencing any "gap". Nevertheless, even without de Ultra Rendu on the signal path, there was a time when Tidal was playing and the song simply stopped. I had to select another track (or click to hear the same track again).

 

The same thing happened at this very moment. :(

Link to comment
6 hours ago, Timbre Lock said:

As I told you, yesterday I spent all day listening to music without experiencing any "gap". Nevertheless, even without de Ultra Rendu on the signal path, there was a time when Tidal was playing and the song simply stopped. I had to select another track (or click to hear the same track again).

 

The same thing happened at this very moment. :(

 

Any errors in HQPlayer log at that point? But sounds like potentially some kind of network issue.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/5/2020 at 5:27 PM, Miska said:

 

Any errors in HQPlayer log at that point? But sounds like potentially some kind of network issue.

 

It shows no errors, Jussi. Nothing different than "audio stopped" or something like it.

 

Regarding network, I've tried with and without switch (plugging uR and sT directly to internet router), Cat5e and Cat6e cables... and it remains the same.

 

I spent the last days listening to music and taking notes on each link I changed on the audio chain, and got to the conclusion that:

 

1. If I don't use ultra Rendu, music is played flawless, without any "gap" whatsoever. Remember: same HQPe config, same DAC, same everything. The con: audio quality becomes very poor, and I don't feel like using it this way.

 

2. When I plug the Ultra Rendu on the setup, the audio quality improves considerably (as expected), but along with it I start getting music "gaps" / brief pieces of silence that don't exist when I use the server direct to DAC. Again: same HQPe config, same DAC, same everything.

 

3. With or without Rendu on the audio chain, Tidal simply stops some songs here and there, from out of nowhere. This "stopping issue" occurs regardless using NAA or not. I'm not sure if it's a Tidal problem, a mConnect Player app problem or a (somehow and misteriously) network problem.

 

So, summarizing: I've concluded that, for some reason, it's my NAA that is causing the "gaps". Unfortunately, I don't have any clue on solving this issue. :(

Link to comment

Hi @Miska

 

Running HQPe 4.18.1 it seems that when I play DSD tracks to my PCM-only zone (Allo DigiOne feeding Denon AVR) with sinc-L filter, it doesn't automatically force output mode to PCM the way it does with other filters.

 

HQPe output mode set to SDM (always is). With other filters, HQP would always convert to PCM automatically with DSD content, without having to change output mode at the top of the config page.

 

Is this a minor bug?

 

Have a look at the signal path below

 

942960642_Screenshot2020-08-15at11_32_07am.thumb.jpeg.5449697b598c5865e0d1e92640fa39e9.jpeg

1357273595_ScreenShot2020-08-15at9_38_50am.thumb.png.6c4a97781c22803abaf8a513af462ccf.png

 

 

 

Link to comment
On 8/15/2020 at 3:54 PM, asdf1000 said:

Hi @Miska

 

Running HQPe 4.18.1 it seems that when I play DSD tracks to my PCM-only zone (Allo DigiOne feeding Denon AVR) with sinc-L filter, it doesn't automatically force output mode to PCM the way it does with other filters.

 

HQPe output mode set to SDM (always is). With other filters, HQP would always convert to PCM automatically with DSD content, without having to change output mode at the top of the config page.

 

Is this a minor bug?

 

Have a look at the signal path below

 

942960642_Screenshot2020-08-15at11_32_07am.thumb.jpeg.5449697b598c5865e0d1e92640fa39e9.jpeg

1357273595_ScreenShot2020-08-15at9_38_50am.thumb.png.6c4a97781c22803abaf8a513af462ccf.png

 

 

 

 

Do you mean HQPlayer output mode is set to PCM? Otherwise this is a bit contradictory.  The Roon signal path display looks bogus in terms of rate. How does refreshed HQPlayer front page look like?

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

Link to comment
On 8/15/2020 at 5:53 AM, Timbre Lock said:

2. When I plug the Ultra Rendu on the setup, the audio quality improves considerably (as expected), but along with it I start getting music "gaps" / brief pieces of silence that don't exist when I use the server direct to DAC. Again: same HQPe config, same DAC, same everything.

 

This certainly sounds like a network problem, typically non-functional 802.3x Flow Control.

 

On 8/15/2020 at 5:53 AM, Timbre Lock said:

3. With or without Rendu on the audio chain, Tidal simply stops some songs here and there, from out of nowhere. This "stopping issue" occurs regardless using NAA or not. I'm not sure if it's a Tidal problem, a mConnect Player app problem or a (somehow and misteriously) network problem.

 

I would say this is a separate problem. This happens in the middle of the track, instead of failure proceeding the another track?

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

Link to comment

Miska:

 

I have come across an issue when upsampling to DSD256 using the ASDM7EC modulator and sinc-L filter.  If I queue up a 44.1 kHz PCM song followed by a DSD265 track, they both play fine.  However, if I do the same test with another 44.1 kHz PCM tune following the DSD256 track, HQPlayer "locks up" or I should say won't play the track. I have to hit "refresh" in the Web GUI to get it going again.  This behavior does not occur if I am using sinc-M filter.  Here are my settings:

 

1286530719_Screenshot2020-08-17at5_02_54PM.thumb.png.563bd925fd30a6680aec3f2073da6e3d.png

Link to comment
19 minutes ago, sledwards said:

The DSD file resolution is DSD64.  I should also note that I am running convolution filters (352 kHz).

 

I will check this if I can reproduce the problem. By any chance, CUDA offload being in use?

 

When HQPlayer fails to proceed to a next track, there should be some kind of error or notice about it in the log file.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

Link to comment
5 hours ago, Miska said:

I would say this is a separate problem. This happens in the middle of the track, instead of failure proceeding the another track?

 

I couldn't agree more, Jussi. I think the same. It happens in the middle of the track (near the end, at about 80%, to be more precise). Music is playing normal an then it stops. I change track (or click to replay the same) and it plays well.

 

Well, I've picked up an Uptone ISO Regen from a friend of mine and powered it with my Sonore LPS. I've been listening to music in a flawless and perfect way since saturday. So I decided to throw the towel. That's it... no more NAA here. I find it very disappointing to have to duel the system instead of relaxing and listening to music, pure and simple. Nevertheless, I understand it's a problem here, in my set. I still think NAA is a way to go. But for me it's not working.

 

In addition: even with the ISO Regen in use, Tidal continues stopping songs here and there for no reason. I'm not sure if it is a mConnect Player app issue, or it's dialog with HQP, or Tidal itself. 

 

HDD songs don't suffer with it, they all play flawlessly.

 

Best regards.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I will check this if I can reproduce the problem. By any chance, CUDA offload being in use?

 

When HQPlayer fails to proceed to a next track, there should be some kind of error or notice about it in the log file.

 

Yes, CUDA offload to RTX-2080 graphics board.  I checked the log file but did not see anything out of the ordinary.  I will check again tomorrow with a clean log file.

Link to comment
6 hours ago, Miska said:

Do you mean HQPlayer output mode is set to PCM?

 

I always leave output mode set to SDM. Because most of my listening zones are for upsampled DSD256. But even when playing to my one PCM-only zone (AVR with Allo DigiOne), I never had to change output mode. It would always just automatically force PCM.

 

Except now with sinc-L for some reason.

 

6 hours ago, Miska said:

The Roon signal path display looks bogus in terms of rate. 

 

Yes, probably also related to no sound, only with sinc-L filter. It looks to be keeping output to DSD256x48, not forcing to PCM.

 

6 hours ago, Miska said:

How does refreshed HQPlayer front page look like?

 

Will check and revert.

 

 

 

Link to comment
4 hours ago, sledwards said:

Yes, CUDA offload to RTX-2080 graphics board.  I checked the log file but did not see anything out of the ordinary.  I will check again tomorrow with a clean log file.

 

Based on log it is CUDA error as I suspected, not specified, but likely GPU runs out of ram on the transition.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

Link to comment
11 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

I always leave output mode set to SDM. Because most of my listening zones are for upsampled DSD256. But even when playing to my one PCM-only zone (AVR with Allo DigiOne), I never had to change output mode. It would always just automatically force PCM.

 

Except now with sinc-L for some reason.

 

It still looks like doing PCM, because it says LNS15 which cannot be for SDM output. Although rate display says DSD. So there's a conflict in the information.

 

11 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Yes, probably also related to no sound, only with sinc-L filter. It looks to be keeping output to DSD256x48, not forcing to PCM.

 

That's just Roon display, I'm curious what is the actual case...

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

Link to comment

Hi looking for some help here. Struggling to get this round my head, even with Jussi’s technical explanation. So here I go....

 

Basically before using convolution in HQP I set gain to -3db, recommended  for DSD. So volume doesn’t hit 0db (I understand this safety part).

Mitch created accurate convolution filter set with around -5db, add HQP -3db is this now -8db?? Presume so
 
If HQP was set to +2db, then you filter is -5db. This should give -3db, which is what I started with in the first place? 
 
The reason I’m trying to add more gain/volume back in is, because my amp sound best at certain level of volume. I now need to add an additional 8db to volume to level match previous volume. To achieve this my amp needs to add gain, which is not advised for SQ. 
 
So any gain/volume increase I can add upstream will help. 
 
To my knowledge there is no volume limiter visual on HQP Embedded version. So hard to tell if it’s safe to do or not?
 
Any help much appreciated

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

 


Mitch created accurate convolution filter set with around -5db, add HQP -3db is this now -8db?? Presume so
 
If HQP was set to +2db, then you filter is -5db. This should give -3db, which is what I started with in the first place? 
 
The reason I’m trying to add more gain/volume back in is, because my amp sound best at certain level of volume. I now need to add an additional 8db to volume to level match previous volume. To achieve this my amp needs to add gain, which is not advised for SQ. 

 

Of the amps I'm aware of, volume control with line level inputs is attenuation. So "preamp" should be called "preatt" instead, because most of the time output voltage is lower than the input voltage. So usually higher you can set the amp volume, less attenuation you have and thus higher dynamic range.

 

With room correction filters, if you want to "boost" some particular frequency range, it means that all other frequencies need to be attenuated. So let's say you want to boost 40 Hz by +5 dB, for room correction filter it would mean you leave 40 Hz at 0 dBFS level and attenuate everything else to -5 dBFS. This means the filter will sound 5 dB quieter, but it is actually not quieter! For such filter you cannot add gain, because any content that happens to have 0 dBFS peak at 40 Hz would need to be limited massively  by 5 dB essentially rendering that boost useless. It could still take tens of records to encounter one place where there happens to be 0 dBFS peak at 40 Hz. For this reason it is usually bad idea to add any gain to room correction filters, and that correctly operating room correction filter can indeed sound significantly quieter than without it.

 

So best solution, just as for high dynamic range recordings is to turn up the volume in amp, and thus also gain less attenuation before power amp stage's fixed gain. Because it is sort of pointless to attenuate for example by 36 dB first just to be amplified by 36 dB gain in the next stage.

 

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

To my knowledge there is no volume limiter visual on HQP Embedded version. So hard to tell if it’s safe to do or not?

 

HQPlayer Embedded shows limited counter on the front page in web interface and also HQPlayer Client can display it in realtime.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...