HQPlayer Linux Desktop and HQplayer embedded

ted_b · February 22, 2017

I am a long time user (and BIG proponent) of HQPlayer. I find it to be the best upsampling engine going.

I have been saying for some time that a combination of using JRemote as a control point or remote, into HQPlayer, would be the best of both worlds, as I spent quite a bit of time getting JRIver to be a very friendly GUI. Since Jussi's Linux product called HQplayer embedded (or hqplayerd for short) can be a renderer, I thought I would begin a new thread about how this new world seems to me. I am a Linux idiot. (Note: CA forum member shadowlight is not a Linux idiot; he has generously helped me try to get acquainted with Linux and hqplayerd. I huge thanks to him).

One thing about Linux: it is many things. Some use Debian, some Ubuntu, and others a host of different forms of Linux. Before I settle on one version I thought I would take up shadowlight's recommednation to install a full plug-n-play version called Audiolinux. It resides on a 32GB bootable USB stick, plugged into a USB2 port on my HQP server (Windows 10, i7 6700k, 32GB, Nvidia cuda support, etc). Simply reboot the machine with USB inserted....Audiolinux comes up. Remove and reboot and I get Winwods 10 back. Pretty simple first step into the world of Linux audio.

The "regular" HQplayer that many of us use is called HQPlayer Desktop, and Audiolinux has one of those too (as well as MPD, JRIver, Roon, and many other audio products). So this thread's beginnings is to unclutter the normal HQPlayer thread and focus on hqplayerd and how, as a lInux newbie, I see it differing from the HQP desktop. The two products are never run together.

I am running HQPlayer desktop version 3.15 and running hqplayerd at version 4.0.a8; version alpha 9 and 10 have been tested but we were having NAA problems so I downgraded to A8. Now A11 is out there and Piero, the owner of AudioLinux, has graciously put it up, but I am using generous shadowlight's offer to play guinea pig first

OK, first off hqplayerd does not yet support cuda offloading, so I turned that off in Linux desktop too, to try and compare results (smooth playback and sq differences, if needed). Also, hqplayerd is command line driven so I am using cheat sheets from shadowlight to start, stop and change settings, and I admit ALL of my issues could be user error. Additionally, hqplayerd A8 does not support "auto" format switching (SDM vs PCM) so I edit the config XML and restart hqplayerd to accommodate (again, this is all in testing..I can't live this way).

On first tests I am finding that HQPlayer desktop on Linux acts and sounds virtually identical to my Windows 10 version, and seems to have the same limitations (i.e virtually none, although have not tested with multichannel yet, and I will assume that cuda offloading will need to be turned on then).

HQplayerd is being played from a Minimserver server and a couple of control points, BubbleUPnP and Kinsky (Kazoo requires OpenHome, and although I have created an OpneHome version of hqplayerd renderer Kazoo sees it but doesn't play. No big deal). As long as I play PCM in PCM (to 352.8k) or DSD in DSD (DSD512) the playback is fine. However, hqplayerd hiccups pretty significantly when trying to play PCM in DSD512 (haven't changed bitrates yet), regardless of the filter I think I am using (I say "I think" cuz I am not fluent yet in understanding the filter numbering in the XML files).

Note: I've tried using jRIver and JRemote (from my home office Windows desktop setup) but gotten poor and unusable results (best case horrible hiccuping, worst case silence), but shadowlight reports it does work, so that, my ultimate goal, is still on hold.

Here is my Linux desktop settings window, and then the XML driving hqplayerd (with upsampling filter set to 11, which I think is poly-sinc-mp-2s, set in order to reduce hiccupping but to no avail yet)

These screenshots are from a desktop remote called NoMachine, which is pretty good!

ted_b · February 22, 2017

Thanks. Keep the embedded comments coming, whether you are comparing to another setup or not.

I'm keen on knowing whether A11

1) supports NAA. We have 2 yeses and one no.

2) supports "auto" format changes

3) works with JRIver UPnP (no idea why my JRiver does not work and therefore whether it is at all related to hqplayerd versioning).

ted_b · February 22, 2017

Thanks!! Where in the XML is the mode attribute for auto? Simply should I, if using a11, enter "auto" for mode value, as opposed to sdm or pcm?

BTW, changing upsampling filter to what I intended, which is now 7 (doh!) resolved the PCM to DSD512 issues. No more hiccups. Thx

ted_b · February 23, 2017

Jussi, you use Minimserver rather than JRIver's own library? I might try that too.

I ran a12 this morning and report back that auto format changes (mode=auto) working fine, as is DirectSDM. Note: I tried Direct SDM only because I was worried about Minimserver sending PCM instead of DSD. Why? Cuz the only times I've ever used Minimserver was with my former Signature Rendu, and it required Minimstreamer and setting DFF:dopwav, dsf:dopwav. Therefore I was worried that Minimserver does not really serve up direct non-DoP DSD files, and setting auto for everything in hqplaerd does not give me enough information about what is being sent to the dac (although upon further thinking I guess it would have shown a PCM playback or garbage if my theory was right). I now know that this Minimstreamer setting stuff was just for renderers that only do DoP.

I will try JRIver and its library, through JRemote, next.

By the way, using Minimserver and BubbleUPnP I get crackles when transitioning from one DSDtrack to another, even the same bitrate, (unless within the same album brought over to the playlist togther) and then crackles for 5 seconds once I hit the stop button in the control point.

ted_b · February 23, 2017

Dusted off JRemote and tried it once again, using hqplayerd. As shadowlight reported the PCM playback was fine but once I went to DSD the dac showed PCM rates and played hiss or warbly garbage, I tried various JRiver DLNA settings to no avail.

I then switched libraries to Minimserver, and although was working with a small subset (since it takes awhile to load and I was in a hurry to test) any sample DSD file played just fine. ??

Another nice by-product is there are no track transition clicks or bumps during auto DSD512, except the pop when starting the first DSD track after PCM. And since, during this test I also tried DirectSDM I know that JRIver is not converting to PCM, otherwise hqplayerd would send PCM to my dac (unless it's then converted to DSD but that would assume DSD64, not also DSD128 and 256 per file origin).

ted_b · February 23, 2017

Shadowlight, your dac requires DoP, right? So we are testing different results then. I do not have Minimserver creating dopwav files and I still get DSD fine.

ted_b · February 24, 2017

OK, I went back to JRiver library. If I change DLNA setting to "L24 PCM no header" JRIver blows up. No DLNA whatsoever, even PCM. And no DSD. Again, with Minimserver as the library, all previous settings are fine, but with JRIver library as library, the no-header settings make things worse (i.e unusable).

If I set DLNA setting back to 24 bit PCM and simply turn off bitstream (requires DOPE capable renderer) then PCM plays ok but DSD plays back as PCM, poorly.

What, exactly, were your setting changes?

ted_b · February 24, 2017

So am currently running a12 embedded, with microRendu as NAA, JRiver using Minimserver as library, JRemote as my control point. Auto family is on, as is auto mode. 352k max. So all PCM should be either 352k for 44k based stuff or 192k for 48k based stuff. Nope. I played 24/192 source material and it came out 96k!!? I played 96k or 48k stuff and it came out 192k! Almost like it wouldn't play 192k at 192k cuz it had to do somethin! Kidding, but weird. I turned off auto family and same occurred, which is even weirder (expected it to go to 352k).

I went to 384k as my max PCM output, back to engine auto family enabled and now everything plays fine (44k to 352.8k, 48k to 384k).

P.S. I still have the mime stuff left in there from shadowlight's template above; I may delete that and see what happens.

<mime>

</mime>

ted_b · February 24, 2017

So far, with JRIver as the DLNA server, Minimserver as JRIver's library, no Minimstreamer installed, and hqplayerd auto family and auto mode on (384k and DSD512 max) I ran, with JRemote as control point, all four different combinations (JRiver DLNA mode "original" or "specified output format" and DLNA Advanced->bitstream on or off) the results were identical. In all four scenarios PCM and DSD played properly and at the correct max family rate, and in all four scenarios upon hitting "stop" on JRemote any DSD crackled in each channel (back and forth) for 5 seconds as the stream stopped.

So I concur that no Dop-as-wav is happening, whether DLNA bitstreaming is set or not, as Jussi says embedded will not like that and likely provide hiss or nothing. It's almost like Minimserver is more than the library, but also the DLNA server.

I will try same as above except JRiver's own library loaded. But it's 74 degrees here in N. Ohio, and sunny, so going to hit some balls at the range first.

ted_b · February 24, 2017

Thanks, make sense but JRiver does not make that very clear at all!

End result is good, though, as it allows me to use my fave remote with my fave upsampling engine. Even custom views are allowed and saved to JRemote (a nice feature).

ted_b · February 24, 2017

Jussi, can you educate those of us who don't know exactly what mimes do, esp those you included?

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

ted_b · February 25, 2017

That was great, thanks. So what are these that you decided to include in the example config file (I assume ogg is an ogg vorbis container). What is vnd or L24 that they made the short list:

<mime>

</mime>

ted_b · February 25, 2017

Yeah just use Jussi"s dff2dsf utility. Mostly header info changed; takes seconds.

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

ted_b · February 25, 2017

Got it thanks. And yes, when selecting JRIver's own library (and therefore JRiver's DLNA server settings) it now plays fine with shadowlight's screen shot settings, as also per your comments. Not sure the sq is affected (I do not have JRiver ever touch upsampling, DSP, etc) with either. That will take more a/b'ing, likely a moot point with embedded and NAA being isolating steps.

ted_b · February 26, 2017

Strange that the Win 10 NAA and the Linux microRendu both are involved in the craclking at stop. My crackling is a unique sound in that it is left, right, left, right. left then stops (or basically that). It's not like a dropout or format thump..

ted_b · February 26, 2017

Just to make sure, do you have networkaudiod-3.4.2 on all these, or something else? What DACs are used in these cases?

Yes, 3.4.2 on microRendu with Holo Spring (XMOS) dac. I will try on my Windows WS2012R1 NAA but not sure the XML work needed.

ted_b · February 27, 2017

I never use DoP, so the crackle is not related to that. BTW, I ran with my Windows NAA yesterday (Holo ASIO driver) and the stop-crackles still exist. When I rebooted out of Linux back to my Win 10 server (and no UPnP, etc) of course the stop-crackles stopped.

ted_b · February 28, 2017

OK, then I cannot do anything until I can somehow reproduce it. I've tried it with all kinds of different setups and I don't get anything strange. I also tested with microRendu + iFi iDSD Nano and it works perfectly fine.

Jussi, not to be redundant but the stop-crackle is only with hqplayerd acting as renderer. I don't get it when simple desktop to mRendu NAA.

ted_b · February 28, 2017

Yes, the "ALSA DSD not supported" is normal message you will see as long as you don't have Amanero firmware version that would be supported by the kernel for non-DoP DSD.

Here's my output for Amanero, but my Amanero has the 1099 firmware...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33598[/ATTACH]

Are you getting DSD512 with T+A in Linux, like microRendu? There are many many folks on the T+A forum (and Lampi too) that would love to have that.

ted_b · February 28, 2017

No, that's why I have a fanless Win10 machine as a NAA...

Then what is the significance of your screenshot showing Amanero rates when referencing ALSA?

ted_b · March 3, 2017

Miska, thanks. I am going to go back too listening to music for couple of days :-)

What a novel concept. [emoji41]

I am out of town but anxious to try a14 when i return next week. I hope Piero loads it in Audiolinux. He's usually right on the newest release.

Jussi is cuda support in your plans for the next hqplayerd development ( no idea the amount of work involved, sorry)?

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

ted_b · March 9, 2017

Did you get a chance to test out alpha 14 and did the crackle go away?

Can't figure out how to update to a14 in Audiolinux. I did the a8 update, but using same commands for a14 (replaced youart command line from a8 to a14) is not working at all. I have an email into Piero.

ted_b · March 9, 2017

Moreover, when I go to PKGBrowser I see that a12 is under "installed" (not sure how the hell it was installed cuz I didn't do it and Audiolinux was sitting idle on my unattached USB thumb drive while I was gone) so I run "start_hqplayerd.sh" only to find it starts as a11. ???

Update: Doh! I'm looking at a12 thinking it's a14. I installed a12 dummy! But, nonetheless, a14 is still an anomaly, as the process I went through to do a8 and a12 isn't working, and the funny thing is the AUR inventory shows 14 out there.

ted_b · March 9, 2017

If one were trying to update HQPlayer Embedded by copy-pasting a14 into a pkgbuild for a8, it would definitely fail on account of changes to the package contents from a9 on.

OK, thanks. Still don't know yaourt command. I would have thought it was same as the yaourt command for a8 (except a14). That's all I guess I meant.

ted_b · March 9, 2017

I don't use Audiolinux but it's based on Arch Linux which meana that yaourt -S hqplayer-embedded should install whatever the latest version available on the AUR is. The package "provides" hqplayer-embedded, meaning it would simply overwrite the current version with a message it was doing so. What exactly was the process for installing a8?

Thanks. That command did it. Now to find my proper xml config and move forward. Thx

HQPlayer Linux Desktop and HQplayer embedded

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