Article: MQA (for civilians)

[DanSmedra]

I see things in simple terms. When we discuss the subjective sound of MQA files that is simply a person's opinion on what he heard and is in no way a factual representation of any reality.

 

Me too! But I always find statements like this a bit humorous. No apology is really necessary for engaging MQA "subjectively" and holding an "opinion" regarding what we find pleasing. Appreciation of beauty (in whatever venue: food, art, music, a photograph of a beautiful woman/man, whatever) is not some lesser or inferior activity. Humans normally don't evaluate musical beauty looking at images of electron patterns on an oscilloscope.

 

To call it "simple," extends the myth of the superiority of so-called reductionistic* science and attempts to extend it into the realm of music appreciation and sound "quality." To speak of "factual representation of any reality" is anything but "simple." I appreciate the late Prof. Theodore Roszak's insight into this.

 

"An expert, we say, is one to whom we turn because he is in control of reliable knowledge about that which concerns us. In the case of the technocracy, the experts are those who govern us because they know (reliably) about all things relevant to our survival and happiness: human needs, social engineering, economic planning, international relations, invention, education, etc. Very well, but what is “reliable knowledge”? How do we know it when we see it? The answer is: reliable knowledge is knowledge that is scientifically sound, since science is that to which modern man refers for the definitive explication of reality. And what in turn is it that characterizes scientific knowledge? The answer is: objectivity. Scientific knowledge is not just feeling or speculation or subjective ruminating. It is said to be a verifiable description of reality that exists independent of any purely personal considerations. It is true…real…dependable…it works. And that at last is how we define an expert: he is one who really knows what is what, because he cultivates an objective consciousness. p. 208

 

Thus, if we probe the technocracy in search of the peculiar power it holds over us, we arrive at the myth of objective consciousness. There is but one way [according to scientism’s elite and followers] of gaining access to reality—so the myth holds—and this is to cultivate a state of consciousness cleansed of all subjective distortion, all personal involvement. What flows from this state of consciousness qualifies as knowledge, and nothing else does. This is the bedrock on which the [modern] natural sciences have built; and under their spell all fields of knowledge strive to become 'scientific'. The study of man in his social, political, economic, psychological, historical [and religious] aspects—all this, too, must become objective: rigorously, painstakingly objective. At every level of human experience, would-be scientists come forward to endorse the myth of objective consciousness, thus certifying themselves as experts. And because they know and we do not, we yield to their guidance. p. 209. Theodore Roszak, The Myth of Objective Consciousness, The Making of a Counter Culture, Anchor Books, 1969.

 

* the practice of analyzing and describing a complex phenomenon in terms of phenomena that are held to represent a simpler or more fundamental level, especially when this is said to provide a sufficient explanation.

[Sal1950]

Me too! But I always find statements like this------------

 

ROTFLMAO,, Yea OK.

One comment, we're talking about High Fidelity here, not the subjective view of art, music or photographs. The former is a scientific pursuit, the later (like sex and your post) the pursuit of pleasure. Have fun.

[realhifi]

I used to love going into the city to browse in the used record stores. The artists didn't get paid then either. If anyone complained about royalties back then, I didn't hear about it. Used records were cheap in the 70's too. I don't think a used record store could afford to pay rent these days. But I miss buying physical media in stores. Shopping was part of the experience for me.

 

Guess you haven't looked for one in awhile. We have a great one in our smallish city ( While Traverse City’s official population is 14,572, and a daytime population of more than twice the official population, it is the hub of a Micropolitan Statistical Area of 143,372.), it has a great used record store and he is thriving. Interesting thing is, he was once the owner of a mid-fi / Hifi shop and now is happier than he was running that.

 

If you venture out to larger cities you will find a number of great record stores. I get to Chicago on occasion and there are quite a few great used record stores with fantastic prices and fantastic inventory. Frankly, it's where I go for "hi-res" music that I want to "own".

Tidal (and now Roon and MQA) are filling the bill for digital music for me.

[labjr]

Guess you haven't looked for one in awhile. We have a great one in our smallish city ( While Traverse City’s official population is 14,572, and a daytime population of more than twice the official population, it is the hub of a Micropolitan Statistical Area of 143,372.), it has a great used record store and he is thriving. Interesting thing is, he was once the owner of a mid-fi / Hifi shop and now is happier than he was running that.

 

If you venture out to larger cities you will find a number of great record stores. I get to Chicago on occasion and there are quite a few great used record stores with fantastic prices and fantastic inventory. Frankly, it's where I go for "hi-res" music that I want to "own".

Tidal (and now Roon and MQA) are filling the bill for digital music for me.

 

 

I live outside of Boston. I'll bet there was 100's of used records store near Harvard Square. There was many used hi-fi shops too with all kinds of electronic junk to browse through. That's all long gone. Rent in the city of Cambridge is unaffordable now. I know of a couple used record stores that still exist in other parts of the state but it aint what it used to be.

[Jud]

I live outside of Boston. I'll bet there was 100's of used records store near Harvard Square. There was many used hi-fi shops too with all kinds of electronic junk to browse through. That's all long gone. Rent in the city of Cambridge is unaffordable now. I know of a couple used record stores that still exist in other parts of the state but it aint what it used to be.

 

Interesting. I was just at a used record and CD shop near where I live (50ish miles from nearest large city) and picked up some old Kinks and Dave Mathews Band for 3 bucks each.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[jmudrick]

.... picked up some ....Dave Mathews Band .....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Daughter in college ? (Sorry :-) )

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[realhifi]

I live outside of Boston. I'll bet there was 100's of used records store near Harvard Square. There was many used hi-fi shops too with all kinds of electronic junk to browse through. That's all long gone. Rent in the city of Cambridge is unaffordable now. I know of a couple used record stores that still exist in other parts of the state but it aint what it used to be.

 

There certainly may be less than there used to be. Sorry there isn't one near you!

If, however, you get an urge to get into the heartland of this country, you need to spend some time in the great city of Chicago and there you will find hrs and hrs of used record browsing available in a number of good shops. Prices seem really low to me too and my experience jives with Jud's in that I bought an armload of pristine jazz at $3-4$ a pop last time I was there. I was able to get 15 records for the price of 2 hires downloads!

[Jud]

Daughter in college ? (Sorry :-) )

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

I've been to a show - with younger friends.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[labjr]

There certainly may be less than there used to be. Sorry there isn't one near you!

If, however, you get an urge to get into the heartland of this country, you need to spend some time in the great city of Chicago and there you will find hrs and hrs of used record browsing available in a number of good shops. Prices seem really low to me too and my experience jives with Jud's in that I bought an armload of pristine jazz at $3-4$ a pop last time I was there. I was able to get 15 records for the price of 2 hires downloads!

 

I used to spend entire afternoons browsing through used record shops. Go out of one door into a store next door. But that was 35-40 years ago. Scary to think of how much time has passed.

 

My friend's daughter now rents a small 1 BR apartment(2 1/2 rooms) in the same area for almost $4,000 a month. You don't see many small businesses that can survive under those conditions.

[Ralf11]

I think every college town has used record (CD, LP, etc.) shops. We have 3 and I just got back from my Sat. am browse... the guy even recognizes me now and said "see you next Sat.

[Ralf11]

around here everybody on Medicare is a Dave Matthews fan

 

but we realize we are NW of Normal

[Sal1950]

If you venture out to larger cities you will find a number of great record stores. I get to Chicago on occasion and there are quite a few great used record stores with fantastic prices and fantastic inventory. Frankly, it's where I go for "hi-res" music that I want to "own".

 

If your in Chicago two of my life long haunts are still around and not to be missed.

Both on the near West Side suburb of Oak Park, front door access to both from public transportation.

For vinyl, since 1972, is Val's halla Records. A legend in the Chicago area, I can remember the days full of the smell of patchouli oil, incense, and the refer being smoked out front! LOL

Vals halla Records | We Buy Vinyl

 

For CD's is Chicago Digital. A guy named Chris Miller opened this wonder place in 1985 and at the time was the first CD only store in the country. Today you can't really browse any more since the place is just packed tight, floor to ceiling, front door to back, with over 40,000 new & used CD's. If there's something special or rare you want just give him a call. (Tell him Sal sent ya. )

http://www.chicagocompactdiscs.com/

 

Way off topic from MQA, but this is more important stuff in any case.

LOL,

Sorry Chris.

[Pat Case]

Here's a terrifically interesting piece by Jim Collinson of Linn. In my view, Jim raises some interesting questions about the philosophy and the monetizing behind MQA. I found Jim's analogizing MQA to the Netflix/Amazon model to be particularly poignant.

 

i should say that by personal predilection, I still want to 'own' my music - a proposition that is becoming increasingly difficult. I use streaming for non-critical listening of narrow dynamic range music. Material employing a wider dynamic range I end up owning after the hunt for the best recording Many times red book)

https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music

[Sal1950]

Here's a terrifically interesting piece by Jim Collinson of Linn. In my view, Jim raises some interesting questions about the philosophy and the monetizing behind MQA. I found Jim's analogizing MQA to the Netflix/Amazon model to be particularly poignant.

 

i should say that by personal predilection, I still want to 'own' my music - a proposition that is becoming increasingly difficult. I use streaming for non-critical listening of narrow dynamic range music. Material employing a wider dynamic range I end up owning after the hunt for the best recording Many times red book)

https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music

 

That's a great article, hadn't seen it before. Includes some of the things I've been saying all along on the DRM like aspects of MQA. Thanks for the post!

[tmarshl]

On 2/9/2017 at 10:38 AM, DanSmedra said:

It seems one of the major current tensions among audiophiles in various forums is the viability and supply of music delivery channels. Hi-res music owners clearly seem threatened and angst over streaming music becoming too popular and its SQ too good. I think their concerns are unfounded.

 

As silly as it sounds, some forums have small groups of anti-streaming and MQA 'protestors'. I'm not sure whether they are retired, unemployed, or live in mom's basement, but they are drawn (as if with a sci-fi tractor beam) to express dissent and write denigrating comments toward that segment who enjoy streaming and who optimistically look at MQA as a possible enhancement to sound quality and musical enjoyment.

 

Enthusiasm for TIDAL/Masters and the emerging market for MQA-certified hardware seems to make certain audiophiles downright miserable...as if music pleasure is a zero-sum equation. "It's just not 'fair'!" Really?

 

Audio Industry Take Note. Those of us who enjoy streaming services like TIDAL, Pandora, Spotify, etc. and its ability to introduce music listeners to new artists and genre as well as replay favorites from massive cloud-based libraries, are excited about TIDAL/Masters and the future of MQA.

Agreed. I am one of those who never forked out the money to "re-purchase" my entire library in high-resolution formats.  I did buy a dozen 24/192 PCM albums and a similar amount of DSD albums.  One of the reasons that I didn't download more is that some of the purveyors of hi-res downloads did not provide the provenance of their offerings, and in some cases I was delivered substandard results from a poor master or just a conversion from PCM to DSD.  I am not paying $25 per album for that kind of product.  So when Tidal streaming came along, I found the SQ to be acceptable, but the interface not.  But Roon / Tidal with Masters checks all of the boxes for me: great interface and reasonable SQ.  The biggest advantage is in music discovery: I am able to find the music that I really like, so that I can make a price / performance judgement on whether it is worth buying as a DSD download, or whether Tidal / Masters is good enough.  Another advantage is that I don't feel compelled to purchase complete albums any more, just the tracks that I like.   My experience so far has been to really enjoy Roon / Tidal / Master streaming to the point that I have not purchased a hi-res download since Tidal / Masters became available.  I will continue to discover new music and will continue to make the judgement each time on whether I want to purchase a hi-resolution version through download.  The nice thing is that with Roon, it seamlessly integrates the downloaded tracks with streaming tracks.

I don't think that I am that unique

[R1200CL]

Has anyone been able to play a trac that produces the green light ?

 

(I tried to search for "Green light" but it was impossible for me to understand how to upen a post containing my search phrase)

 

So far I've only seen the blue light.

[The Computer Audiophile]

20 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Has anyone been able to play a trac that produces the green light ?

 

(I tried to search for "Green light" but it was impossible for me to understand how to upen a post containing my search phrase)

 

So far I've only seen the blue light.

 

I have one that's green light, but it was given to me as a press sample.

 

To open a post containing your search phrase, you can click on any of the three items with arrows (see screenshot)

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I have one that's green light, but it was given to me as a press sample.

Same here.

[labjr]

Did anyone read the Positive Feedback article by Andreas Koch?

 

http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/questions-answers-mqa-interview-andreas-koch/

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

38 minutes ago, labjr said:

Did anyone read the Positive Feedback article by Andreas Koch?

 

http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/questions-answers-mqa-interview-andreas-koch/

 

 

Discussion here - 

 

[mansr]

16 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I have one that's green light, but it was given to me as a press sample.

 

I've been looking for such a file.

[thyname]

Is there a list somewhere with DACs and streamers showing their MQA capabilities for each? It is very confusing which ones do full rendering & decoding, just rendering and such.