microRendu, NUC, JRiver and Roon

[Johnseye]

Background: I currently have a very simple Windows 2012 R2 Server (think CAPS) with everything non-essential turned off, using Audiophile Optimizer and Fidelizer. My digital music is stored on a Synology NAS. I've been running JRiver and now Roon as well. For the record, after testing yesterday's Roon 1.3 release I can't hear a difference between JRiver and Roon. I think I might be able to sometimes, but no. The server connects to an Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC via USB. The DAC is directly connected to an Emotiva amp. Speakers are B&W 803s.

 

I'm trying to understand what benefit a microRendu would serve. If it could replace my Windows Server I'm in. But it appears that it can't actually run the Roon software, or JRiver. Same with other "media servers" that are "Roon Ready". I was looking at Audio Alchemy's new DMP-1 which runs it's own media server interface and is Roon Ready, but you can't actually install Roon on it. If I can't eliminate the device hosting Roon or JRiver, then what's the point of adding another device in between it and the DAC? Just to act as some kind of a filter if it doesn't end up causing new problems? If I'm missing something please educate me.

 

That leads me to the Intel NUC. I'm looking to decrease the footprint and energy use of my current Server. With it I can install Windows Server with AO and Fidelizer and use it to host Roon and JRiver. It's not as elegant as the microRendu or DMP-1 as far as simplified hardware and USB bus is concerned but what else is there that can host JRiver and/or Roon and connect directly to the DAC?

[dtb300]

If I can't eliminate the device hosting Roon or JRiver, then what's the point of adding another device in between it and the DAC? Just to act as some kind of a filter if it doesn't end up causing new problems? If I'm missing something please educate me.[/Quote]

It is all about having the device (computer, streamer, etc.) which is connected to your DAC to have as little going on as possible. Hence mRendu, fanless computers (like CAPS), etc.

 

You need to read about the mRendu to see how it really works.

That leads me to the Intel NUC. I'm looking to decrease the footprint and energy use of my current Server. With it I can install Windows Server with AO and Fidelizer and use it to host Roon and JRiver. It's not as elegant as the microRendu or DMP-1 as far as simplified hardware and USB bus is concerned but what else is there that can host JRiver and/or Roon and connect directly to the DAC?

Any computer or computer based product should be able to host your software of choice here. Just depends on what you want to do with your software vs the power of the computer.

 

I am sure others will jump in here with their ideas and suggestions.

[Johnseye]

It is all about having the device (computer, streamer, etc.) which is connected to your DAC to have as little going on as possible. Hence mRendu, fanless computers (like CAPS), etc.

You need to read about the mRendu to see how it really works.

Right, exactly what I've built. But it's big like a CAPS Cortes and I want to get it simplified like the mRendu. However, from what I've read the mRendu doesn't eliminate the need for the server running Roon or JRiver at all. This is where I may be missing something so please correct me if it actually runs the Linux versions of that software on it itself, eliminating the need for another Server.

 

Any computer or computer based product should be able to host your software of choice here. Just depends on what you want to do with your software vs the power of the computer.

I am sure others will jump in here with their ideas and suggestions.

Correct, but can the mRendu do this or is there a similar piece of hardware specifically built for audio playback that can serve as this software host? The NUC is just a simple pre-built solution, but lacks the audio specific hardware. Maybe SOtM, but I don't know enough about their products.

[Albrecht]

Background: I currently have a very simple Windows 2012 R2 Server (think CAPS) with everything non-essential turned off, using Audiophile Optimizer and Fidelizer. My digital music is stored on a Synology NAS. I've been running JRiver and now Roon as well. For the record, after testing yesterday's Roon 1.3 release I can't hear a difference between JRiver and Roon. I think I might be able to sometimes, but no. The server connects to an Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC via USB. The DAC is directly connected to an Emotiva amp. Speakers are B&W 803s.

 

I'm trying to understand what benefit a microRendu would serve. If it could replace my Windows Server I'm in. But it appears that it can't actually run the Roon software, or JRiver. Same with other "media servers" that are "Roon Ready". I was looking at Audio Alchemy's new DMP-1 which runs it's own media server interface and is Roon Ready, but you can't actually install Roon on it. If I can't eliminate the device hosting Roon or JRiver, then what's the point of adding another device in between it and the DAC? Just to act as some kind of a filter if it doesn't end up causing new problems? If I'm missing something please educate me.

 

That leads me to the Intel NUC. I'm looking to decrease the footprint and energy use of my current Server. With it I can install Windows Server with AO and Fidelizer and use it to host Roon and JRiver. It's not as elegant as the microRendu or DMP-1 as far as simplified hardware and USB bus is concerned but what else is there that can host JRiver and/or Roon and connect directly to the DAC?

Hi, It sounds like you like your current setup the way it is with JRiver & Fidelizer. Is your NUC on, near, your audio equip rack? I think that you'd be a candidate for the PS Audio LanRover, - or its inspiration, - the Icron/Startech isochronous USB to TCP converters. A set of these would galvanically isolate your USB signal & remove the computer & it's (possibly) noisy SMPS from your audio room.

 

Roon Server does run on NAS drives, - depending on your configs, - you can run Roon on your NAS, - and then use the microRendu as an endpoint.

 

Just some thoughts...

 

Cheers,

[Johnseye]

To clarify what I'm looking to achieve. I'm looking for a high quality audio purposed solution to host both JRiver and Roon. The same thing a CAPS server does. Very similar to the sonicTransporter but that isn't just for Roon. I don't want to give up JRiver at this point because it allows me to stream my music library anywhere, which Roon can not do.

I'm also trying to understand what mRendu does other than provide DLNA access to a stand alone DAC. From what I've read you can't install any media player on it.

 

Apologies for any confusion, but I don't own a mRendu or NUC today. Only what's listed in the background of my first post.

[Johnseye]

Hi, It sounds like you like your current setup the way it is with JRiver & Fidelizer. Is your NUC on, near, your audio equip rack? I think that you'd be a candidate for the PS Audio LanRover, - or its inspiration, - the Icron/Startech isochronous USB to TCP converters. A set of these would galvanically isolate your USB signal & remove the computer & it's (possibly) noisy SMPS from your audio room.

Roon Server does run on NAS drives, - depending on your configs, - you can run Roon on your NAS, - and then use the microRendu as an endpoint.

Actually, I don't like the current setup. I want to eliminate the PC Server for a simplified, audio specific piece of hardware that can run JRiver and Roon.

My server is near my audio equipment rack (DAC and amp) which is in a closet in the back of my listening room. Thanks for the info on PS Audio, I'll check out what you've suggested. I didn't know Roon could run on the Synology. That's an option when I give up on JRiver.

 

Edit: I've checked out the PS Audio suggestion. That looks similar to the Shiit Wyrd. I'm not necessarily looking to clean up the USB noise from power as to eliminate as much of it as I can from the source. I am curious to how well these devices actually do clean up the noise floor.

[GUTB]

If you are going to give up on doing DSD up-conversion via I2S and HQPlayer-Roon integration, you can get very compact and clean streaming out of a tablet running on battery power. I tested this with an iPad Pro using a camera connection kit dongle to get USB out of the iPad and into my interface -- it worked fantastically. Downside is that you give up the quality user experience.

 

But since I'm dedicated to DSD up-sampling now, I have no choice but to work on my audio PC. The problem with the NUCs is that even if you plug them into a quality LPS you are still getting hit by the hard disk power noise. You could go the diskless route using a network boot but those are a PITA as well. I'm probably going to end up getting one of those specialized fanless compact cases for a Kaby Ridge i7 so I can get back to DSD512 through HQPlayer.....sigh.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[Johnseye]

If you are going to give up on doing DSD up-conversion via I2S and HQPlayer-Roon integration, you can get very compact and clean streaming out of a tablet running on battery power. I tested this with an iPad Pro using a camera connection kit dongle to get USB out of the iPad and into my interface -- it worked fantastically. Downside is that you give up the quality user experience.

But since I'm dedicated to DSD up-sampling now, I have no choice but to work on my audio PC. The problem with the NUCs is that even if you plug them into a quality LPS you are still getting hit by the hard disk power noise. You could go the diskless route using a network boot but those are a PITA as well. I'm probably going to end up getting one of those specialized fanless compact cases for a Kaby Ridge i7 so I can get back to DSD512 through HQPlayer.....sigh.

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

You have me very interested. What DAC are you using that can accept DSD512?

[davide256]

Background: I currently have a very simple Windows 2012 R2 Server (think CAPS) with everything non-essential turned off, using Audiophile Optimizer and Fidelizer. My digital music is stored on a Synology NAS. I've been running JRiver and now Roon as well. For the record, after testing yesterday's Roon 1.3 release I can't hear a difference between JRiver and Roon. I think I might be able to sometimes, but no. The server connects to an Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC via USB. The DAC is directly connected to an Emotiva amp. Speakers are B&W 803s.

 

I'm trying to understand what benefit a microRendu would serve. If it could replace my Windows Server I'm in. But it appears that it can't actually run the Roon software, or JRiver. Same with other "media servers" that are "Roon Ready". I was looking at Audio Alchemy's new DMP-1 which runs it's own media server interface and is Roon Ready, but you can't actually install Roon on it. If I can't eliminate the device hosting Roon or JRiver, then what's the point of adding another device in between it and the DAC? Just to act as some kind of a filter if it doesn't end up causing new problems? If I'm missing something please educate me.

 

That leads me to the Intel NUC. I'm looking to decrease the footprint and energy use of my current Server. With it I can install Windows Server with AO and Fidelizer and use it to host Roon and JRiver. It's not as elegant as the microRendu or DMP-1 as far as simplified hardware and USB bus is concerned but what else is there that can host JRiver and/or Roon and connect directly to the DAC?

You asked about benefit from the Microrendu... the Microrendu will purify the rendering to a "distilled water" quality so that no details are covered up/ mis-flavored from "contaminants" in the renderer circuitry. It benefits from a quality DC power supply and from optical Ethernet connection to provide the purest output possible. The audible result is better resolution for low volume sounds and reduced digital irritants.

 

As to Roon, its a library/control point application, so is only providing an enhanced alternative to Kinsky or other Openhome control points.

Running it on your Windows server to control the Microrendu is a normal solution.

[jcn3]

Just to be clear, a microrendu is a renderer. It is not a player or server and cannot tale the place of the server you're using now.

 

You connect the microrendu to your network. You connect your dac to the microrendu. Your current server would send music to the microrendu over the network. What the microrendu does is deliver music sent to it to your dac in the simplest most noise free way.

[Johnseye]

You asked about benefit from the Microrendu... the Microrendu will purify the rendering to a "distilled water" quality so that no details are covered up/ mis-flavored from "contaminants" in the renderer circuitry. It benefits from a quality DC power supply and from optical Ethernet connection to provide the purest output possible. The audible result is better resolution for low volume sounds and reduced digital irritants.

 

As to Roon, its a library/control point application, so is only providing an enhanced alternative to Kinsky or other Openhome control points.

Running it on your Windows server to control the Microrendu is a normal solution.

 

Dave, thanks for your response. I'd like to dig into the mrendu a bit if you don't mind.

With the mrendu in line I assume the data stream path goes from NAS -> PC hosting Roon (or other application) -> mrendu -> DAC. If the mrendu is only taking that stream via ethernet and converting it to USB then what contaminants are we talking about? Is it only noise introduced from the PCs power supply? Sonore states it has "high quality low noise and ultra low noise regulators" and "fixed frequency low jitter oscillators" If that's the case wouldn't a device like the Shiit Wyrd or Regen do the exact same thing?

 

I don't follow the optical Ethernet, or fiber benefit. The mrendu and the Synology have an RJ45 connection. They don't have an SFP so you also need fiber media converters which also have their own power supply. You not only introduce another power supply but you also add the circuitry of the converter. Unless you're going over 300 ft. what's the point?

 

It's not that Roon itself is the library application, it's that it must run on a PC which introduces that into the data path. If the mrendu could run the Roon app itself you eliminate the PC all together. I don't know what processor, or how much ram it uses but am guessing it's not enough for the Roon core.

[Johnseye]

Just to be clear, a microrendu is a renderer. It is not a player or server and cannot tale the place of the server you're using now.

 

You connect the microrendu to your network. You connect your dac to the microrendu. Your current server would send music to the microrendu over the network. What the microrendu does is deliver music sent to it to your dac in the simplest most noise free way.

Yup, I get that, but why? Why introduce another device into the data path? Unless you're having noise or jitter issues, and if so wouldn't you resolve the cause of those instead of adding another device to attempt to remove them? Understanding it may not be that simple or cost effective to do this but that is in effect what I'm looking for. A media server that's not going to introduce any noise and that causes no jitter.

 

I see you use a NUC. How do you like it? Is it pretty much just a PC like any other?

I also see you use a Regen. Did you have noise or other issues from the NUC and did the Regen resolve those?

[jcn3]

Yup, I get that, but why? . . .

I see you use a NUC. How do you like it? Is it pretty much just a PC like any other?

I also see you use a Regen. Did you have noise or other issues from the NUC and did the Regen resolve those?

 

there are a lot of threads/people who can be more eloquent than me, but the idea is that pcs with their oversized processors, operating systems, drives, video cards, etc. do much more than is needed. by eliminating unnecessary hardware, software, you can create a purpose-built device that uses less power, generates less noise, and (as a result) handles audio files more gracefully and accurately.

 

in my situation, where i am is more of a migration over time and a lot of decisions were made before the microrendu was an option. started off with a CAPS topanga running jriver . . . wanted to get the best sound out of usb, so got a regen . . . wanted to use tidal, so put minimserver and bubbleupnp on my nas and stripped jriver down (no library, no importing, no server functionality) to just be a renderer (using linn kazoo or lumin or bubbleupnp as control point on tablet) . . . added audiophile optimizer and fidelizer pro (both very good and worth the $) . . . wanted to mess around with dsp so tried dirac live but the CAPS topanga didn't have the juice to run it . . . decided to get the nuc (yes, it's just a small form factor pc running win 10 pro) so i could try dirac or maybe roon . . . i'm happy for the moment and i think the nuc sounds great . . . but can always add the microrendu when/if i go to roon.

 

since you're running roon on your server (and it's working well), the general consensus is that you can get a big improvement in sound by simply adding the microrendu. if i were in your shoes, that's what i would do.

 

things like the regen, audiophile optimizer, and fidelizer all are trying to address the weaknesses (noise, oversized, etc.) of a pc. you really wouldn't know you need them until you try them. they all make things blacker, clearer, more textured, more depth. the regen addresses the noise in usb -- it definitely works particularly with a good lpsu. of course it's built into the microrendu . . .

[Johnseye]

since you're running roon on your server (and it's working well), the general consensus is that you can get a big improvement in sound by simply adding the microrendu. if i were in your shoes, that's what i would do.

 

things like the regen, audiophile optimizer, and fidelizer all are trying to address the weaknesses (noise, oversized, etc.) of a pc. you really wouldn't know you need them until you try them. they all make things blacker, clearer, more textured, more depth. the regen addresses the noise in usb -- it definitely works particularly with a good lpsu. of course it's built into the microrendu . . .

What's the benefit of the microrendu over the Regen? With Roon you still need the Roon Core installed on a PC/Server, and you don't need the microrendu for Roon to play music through the DAC.

[ElviaCaprice]

What's the benefit of the microrendu over the Regen? With Roon you still need the Roon Core installed on a PC/Server, and you don't need the microrendu for Roon to play music through the DAC.

 

The difference is that your streaming from the renderer, not the server.

[Johnseye]

The difference is that your streaming from the renderer, not the server.

So to clarify, once the song selection is made in Roon there's a hand off from Roon to the mrendu. Data is not sent from the NAS -> PC-> mrendu-> DAC. The path then becomes NAS-> mrendu-> DAC? Roon Core on the PC no longer does any processing of the music, or touches it in any way once the handoff is made?

 

This is a huge factor, and essentially the reason I started this thread. If the Roon Core truly stays hands off then that's exactly what I'm looking for.

[ElviaCaprice]

So to clarify, once the song selection is made in Roon there's a hand off from Roon to the mrendu. Data is not sent from the NAS -> PC-> mrendu-> DAC. The path then becomes NAS-> mrendu-> DAC? Roon Core on the PC no longer does any processing of the music, or touches it in any way once the handoff is made?

 

 

This is a huge factor, and essentially the reason I started this thread. If the Roon Core truly stays hands off then that's exactly what I'm looking for.

 

Doesn't matter how the data is getting to the renderer, the point is that the renderer is where the stream starts. Although many are finding that even the sending data device and how it's connected to the renderer is a factor in SQ. As far as the controlling device, can be a NAS, PC/server or portable phone/tablet.

 

NOTE: This is how I understand it works. Although it has it's limitations, no video and lack of versatility in software possibilities.

[Johnseye]

Doesn't matter how the data is getting to the renderer, the point is that the renderer is where the stream starts. Although many are finding that even the sending data device and how it's connected to the renderer is a factor in SQ. As far as the controlling device, can be a NAS, PC/server or portable phone/tablet.

NOTE: This is how I understand it works. Although it has it's limitations, no video and lack of versatility in software possibilities.

But it does matter how the data is getting to the renderer. If noise can be introduced in the stream through electrical current then anything in the chain can degrade the sound. The first concern is that the data packets get modified some how by the OS, Roon or the NIC. The second is that we're adding an additional device and cabling that can introduce noise into the chain.

 

You said it yourself, many are finding that even the sending data device and how it's connected to the renderer is a factor in SQ. Anything that is connected or the packets travel through could have an impact. Do you know what kind of handoff is made between the Roon Core and a Roon Ready device like the mrendu?

 

The controlling device only tells the Core, or media server what to do. It could be a tablet/phone sending remote commands to the server, or the servers' application itself. I'm not concerned with the controlling device, I'm concerned with the media server itself. I don't know if I'd call the mrendu a renderer. It has an input and an output, but it's really a filter and ethernet to USB converter isn't it.

[ElviaCaprice]

But it does matter how the data is getting to the renderer. If noise can be introduced in the stream through electrical current then anything in the chain can degrade the sound. The first concern is that the data packets get modified some how by the OS, Roon or the NIC. The second is that we're adding an additional device and cabling that can introduce noise into the chain.

 

You said it yourself, many are finding that even the sending data device and how it's connected to the renderer is a factor in SQ. Anything that is connected or the packets travel through could have an impact. Do you know what kind of handoff is made between the Roon Core and a Roon Ready device like the mrendu?

 

The controlling device only tells the Core, or media server what to do. It could be a tablet/phone sending remote commands to the server, or the servers' application itself. I'm not concerned with the controlling device, I'm concerned with the media server itself. I don't know if I'd call the mrendu a renderer. It has an input and an output, but it's really a filter and ethernet to USB converter isn't it.

 

From my understanding the renderers are streaming the data via the networked media player software on the renderer. The renderer is a computer designed for audio. Streaming and sending plain data are two different animals. But each effect SQ to different degrees. How that all works is not clearly known.

 

You are right, everything matters. Everything is a compromise to find the best SQ with what we have to work with or accomplish.

[tboooe]

Doesn't matter how the data is getting to the renderer, the point is that the renderer is where the stream starts. Although many are finding that even the sending data device and how it's connected to the renderer is a factor in SQ. As far as the controlling device, can be a NAS, PC/server or portable phone/tablet.

 

NOTE: This is how I understand it works. Although it has it's limitations, no video and lack of versatility in software possibilities.

 

I dont think this the case. The music goes to the Roon PC first which then sends to along to the microrendu. This is how Roon knows for example when the song starts and ends.

[davide256]

Dave, thanks for your response. I'd like to dig into the mrendu a bit if you don't mind.

With the mrendu in line I assume the data stream path goes from NAS -> PC hosting Roon (or other application) -> mrendu -> DAC. If the mrendu is only taking that stream via ethernet and converting it to USB then what contaminants are we talking about? Is it only noise introduced from the PCs power supply? Sonore states it has "high quality low noise and ultra low noise regulators" and "fixed frequency low jitter oscillators" If that's the case wouldn't a device like the Shiit Wyrd or Regen do the exact same thing?

 

I don't follow the optical Ethernet, or fiber benefit. The mrendu and the Synology have an RJ45 connection. They don't have an SFP so you also need fiber media converters which also have their own power supply. You not only introduce another power supply but you also add the circuitry of the converter. Unless you're going over 300 ft. what's the point?

 

It's not that Roon itself is the library application, it's that it must run on a PC which introduces that into the data path. If the mrendu could run the Roon app itself you eliminate the PC all together. I don't know what processor, or how much ram it uses but am guessing it's not enough for the Roon core.

In a UPNP streaming solution you have 3 components

 

1) the control point- it provides the user GUI and enhanced intelligence for library browsing. It controls " do this", but is not in the path of music playback. I have experienced that control points can affect the sound but this appears most likely to be in the initial setup/start parameters for streaming playback. The control point would be the function of Roon and Roon requires quite a bit of horsepower

2) the file server; when instructed by the control point it streams media to the renderer selected by the control point. The file server definitely affects sound based on server application and jitter characteristics inside the file server.

 

3) the renderer - receives the streamed digital data from the file server and outputs data in format usable for D/A conversion. Note that the Microrendu

comes with Regen built into it already for USB DAC connection, eliminating a cable. Its job is simple but its where rubber meets the road in handing a quality

signal to a DAC without noise contaminants that will make the DAC circuitry misbehave.

 

The problem with PC's and Mac's is that they are general purpose machines with MOBO components that limit how well they can serve as a renderer. The Microrendu is a built to purpose MOBO solution for use as a renderer that allows you a big jump in audio quality at a reasonable price. I've owned the SoTM SMS100, Oppo 103 and Aries mini... I'd call these 2nd generation machines for UPNP and the Microrendu a 3rd generation machine

 

Stock power supplies are inherently noisy, cheaply made. A decent LPS will help your bass quite a bit as well as improve transparency.

 

I thought the same about copper Ethernet vs fiber optics before I tried it. Doesn't matter what the science is to me... it was an immediate further improvement in details to attach the Microrendu via fiber optics. At a cost of about $100 per link for fiber and 2 GigE media converters, its an inexpensive

cable component for my system .

[Johnseye]

In a UPNP streaming solution you have 3 components

 

1) the control point- it provides the user GUI and enhanced intelligence for library browsing. It controls " do this", but is not in the path of music playback. I have experienced that control points can affect the sound but this appears most likely to be in the initial setup/start parameters for streaming playback. The control point would be the function of Roon and Roon requires quite a bit of horsepower

2) the file server; when instructed by the control point it streams media to the renderer selected by the control point. The file server definitely affects sound based on server application and jitter characteristics inside the file server.

 

3) the renderer - receives the streamed digital data from the file server and outputs data in format usable for D/A conversion. Note that the Microrendu

comes with Regen built into it already for USB DAC connection, eliminating a cable. Its job is simple but its where rubber meets the road in handing a quality

signal to a DAC without noise contaminants that will make the DAC circuitry misbehave.

 

The problem with PC's and Mac's is that they are general purpose machines with MOBO components that limit how well they can serve as a renderer. The Microrendu is a built to purpose MOBO solution for use as a renderer that allows you a big jump in audio quality at a reasonable price. I've owned the SoTM SMS100, Oppo 103 and Aries mini... I'd call these 2nd generation machines for UPNP and the Microrendu a 3rd generation machine

 

Stock power supplies are inherently noisy, cheaply made. A decent LPS will help your bass quite a bit as well as improve transparency.

 

I thought the same about copper Ethernet vs fiber optics before I tried it. Doesn't matter what the science is to me... it was an immediate further improvement in details to attach the Microrendu via fiber optics. At a cost of about $100 per link for fiber and 2 GigE media converters, its an inexpensive

cable component for my system .

 

Well you have me very curious. There's definitely a lot of discussion about power supply noise over USB and I suppose I won't know it's there unless I try out the mrendu and some fiber.

 

How do you like your Maggie 1.7's? I was listening to the 3.7i the other day. Those things open up the space like nothing I've ever heard. The sound was everywhere with good imaging. I think they lacked the detail I get out of my B&W's though, and my theater room is narrow and long. I can't fit the 3.7i's in there but I could fit the 1.7i's. It would be tight though and the Maggies need space away from the wall. I'm torn.

[GUTB]

I'm also highly suspicious of network rendering as a means of improving SQ. You have to understand that it looks counter-intuitive to add several active components which re-create a square wave several times over...just to get rid of source-generated electrical noise? The DAC's receiver is still creating self-noise from processing USB packets.

 

Since the only option for high rate DSD is USB/I2S these schemes can't work for me anyway. I got a Paul Pang v3 USB card...with external power and a 24MHz OCXO clock I really doubt you'd get better out of a series of cheap consumer network devices and rendering gadget.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[davide256]

Well you have me very curious. There's definitely a lot of discussion about power supply noise over USB and I suppose I won't know it's there unless I try out the mrendu and some fiber.

 

How do you like your Maggie 1.7's? I was listening to the 3.7i the other day. Those things open up the space like nothing I've ever heard. The sound was everywhere with good imaging. I think they lacked the detail I get out of my B&W's though, and my theater room is narrow and long. I can't fit the 3.7i's in there but I could fit the 1.7i's. It would be tight though and the Maggies need space away from the wall. I'm torn.

Maggies are great for not having coloration from a cabinet enclosure and for how resolving they are on transients. But they aren't very efficient and can make you hate your electronics if they have any edginess in the highs. I'm keeping an eye on this company to see if they keep improving, their M4Turbo has 93db efficiency vs the 86db for Magnepans... 40 watt high end amps are a lot more affordable than 200 watt amps

 

SPATIAL AUDIOwww.spatialaudio.us

[davide256]

I'm also highly suspicious of network rendering as a means of improving SQ. You have to understand that it looks counter-intuitive to add several active components which re-create a square wave several times over...just to get rid of source-generated electrical noise? The DAC's receiver is still creating self-noise from processing USB packets.

 

Since the only option for high rate DSD is USB/I2S these schemes can't work for me anyway. I got a Paul Pang v3 USB card...with external power and a 24MHz OCXO clock I really doubt you'd get better out of a series of cheap consumer network devices and rendering gadget.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

 

In a network streaming solution, no square wave exists until the renderer converts a data stream to an SPDIF signal or if USB when the DAC processes data received on the USB bus with its D/A chipset... its just data packets before that point