Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
The Computer Audiophile

Article: Roon 1.3 Major Update Coming Today

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Unfortunately the current DSD to DSD upsampling is disappointing. The signal goes trough an intermediate step of DSD to PCM to DSD conversion. I hope they will improve this in the future.

 

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upsampling redbook to 24/176 is sounding much better in Roon->HQP->NAA than Roon->RoonReady (both to microRendu). Piano color is realisitic with HQP, female voices natural. Roon upsampling is sounding both veiled AND strident.

 

But I'm loving v1.3 otherwise!


mini+Roon > dCS Rossini DAC + Rossini Master Clock >

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo G2

system pics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Upsampling redbook to 24/176 is sounding much better in Roon->HQP->NAA than Roon->RoonReady (both to microRendu). Piano color is realisitic with HQP, female voices natural. Roon upsampling is sounding both veiled AND strident.

 

But I'm loving v1.3 otherwise!

 

If you put HQP aside do you think that Roon up-sampling from PCM is better than just PCM playback?


2 ch Setup:

Motorola Modem sb6141> Emo Systems EN-70HD > (5) eero > Synology 1813+ (DSM 6.2), 4TB Seagate NAS Drives, 4GB RAM & Zero Surge & APC XS BX1000G/backup to Synology DX513) > Emo Systems EN-60KDS  > Roon > Mola Mola Tambaqui > BSS BLU 50 > (2) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you put HQP aside do you think that Roon up-sampling from PCM is better than just PCM playback?

Have not tried, but will. However, given that most DACs upsample internally, this is going to be very DAC dependant.


mini+Roon > dCS Rossini DAC + Rossini Master Clock >

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo G2

system pics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I get a similar thing, TIDAL playback with DSP upsampling gives distorted playback and sometimes just stops. Local files are fine. I'm in the UK also.

Actually, scratch those comments. It is doing it on local files now, but I have turned the background analysis up to full speed to speed the job up, so that could be the cause as it was working fine on local files before. Better to assess once the background scan has completed.

 

DSP upsampling works fine with both local and TIDAL, including MQA files, so it must have been the background analysis at full speed that was causing the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used Roon for a year and then gave up on it. Access to Tidal and my 3tb collection in a single screen was great, but I found the interface quite irritating. I went back the MC and the Tidal app. The features of v 1.3 are impressive, but many of them are of little interest to me. I would really appreciate someone giving a thorough comparison of the new to the old interface. There is a claim for faster searches, which is a start, but the first version felt like an impediment between me and the music that I knew I should have easy access to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I used Roon for a year and then gave up on it. Access to Tidal and my 3tb collection in a single screen was great, but I found the interface quite irritating. I went back the MC and the Tidal app. The features of v 1.3 are impressive, but many of them are of little interest to me. I would really appreciate someone giving a thorough comparison of the new to the old interface. There is a claim for faster searches, which is a start, but the first version felt like an impediment between me and the music that I knew I should have easy access to.

 

The interface is exactly the same.

 

Search is approximately 10x faster, which makes a big difference with my underpowered Mac Mini (2011).


John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - MacMini running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi wireless > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > iFi Audio xDSD + iFi Audio xCAN > Focal Elegia

Home Theater - Mac Mini running Roon Server > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Pioneer Elite SC-81 > MartinLogan Motion series home theater speakers + M&K subwoofer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have not tried, but will. However, given that most DACs upsample internally, this is going to be very DAC dependant.

 

Indeed . Some dacs like the Yggy sound better when the software is not doing any upsampling .

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone using headroom and, if so, why would one employ this?


Third Floor: AE>audioengine 2+

Second Floor: 8 gig mac mini 2011 ssd>audioquest carbon USB>lampizator atlantic/melody m845 mono power amps>triode wire labs speaker cables & power cord and wywires power cords>vapor über auroras speakers

Old school: pioneer plx-1000 turntable w/ zu denon 103r cartridge and rogers pa-1a phono preamp

First Floor: AE>lifatec silflex glass toslink>schiit bifrost über>Kimber kable hero RCA>audioengine 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone using headroom and, if so, why would one employ this?

 

Any time you're using DSP (especially equalizer), you have the potential to boost signal up to (or past) clipping threshold.

 

"Headroom" is to allow a few dBs of headroom ;) so that you don't clip the output.

 

I found it useful when employing even mild Parametric Eq - I actually reduced gain on the Eq by 1dB, but still needed another 1dB of headroom in the Headroom section to completely avoid clipping.


John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - MacMini running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi wireless > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > iFi Audio xDSD + iFi Audio xCAN > Focal Elegia

Home Theater - Mac Mini running Roon Server > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Pioneer Elite SC-81 > MartinLogan Motion series home theater speakers + M&K subwoofer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any time you're using DSP (especially equalizer), you have the potential to boost signal up to (or past) clipping threshold.

 

"Headroom" is to allow a few dBs of headroom ;) so that you don't clip the output.

 

I found it useful when employing even mild Parametric Eq - I actually reduced gain on the Eq by 1dB, but still needed another 1dB of headroom in the Headroom section to completely avoid clipping.

 

 

If I'm up sampling, would you recommend using it?


Third Floor: AE>audioengine 2+

Second Floor: 8 gig mac mini 2011 ssd>audioquest carbon USB>lampizator atlantic/melody m845 mono power amps>triode wire labs speaker cables & power cord and wywires power cords>vapor über auroras speakers

Old school: pioneer plx-1000 turntable w/ zu denon 103r cartridge and rogers pa-1a phono preamp

First Floor: AE>lifatec silflex glass toslink>schiit bifrost über>Kimber kable hero RCA>audioengine 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I'm up sampling, would you recommend using it?

 

I'm certainly no expert, but I suspect PCM upsampling probably isn't risky that way.

 

If you're upsampling to DSD, though, take advantage of the dB offset in the Upsampling section, because DSD is especially susceptible to issues here (if you put in the offset in the DSD section, you don't *also* have to include it in "Headroom", though).


John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - MacMini running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi wireless > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > iFi Audio xDSD + iFi Audio xCAN > Focal Elegia

Home Theater - Mac Mini running Roon Server > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Pioneer Elite SC-81 > MartinLogan Motion series home theater speakers + M&K subwoofer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm certainly no expert, but I suspect PCM upsampling probably isn't risky that way.

 

If you're upsampling to DSD, though, take advantage of the dB offset in the Upsampling section, because DSD is especially susceptible to issues here (if you put in the offset in the DSD section, you don't *also* have to include it in "Headroom", though).

 

Looks like I am wrong:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/clipping-indicator-when-only-upsampling/20143


John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - MacMini running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi wireless > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > iFi Audio xDSD + iFi Audio xCAN > Focal Elegia

Home Theater - Mac Mini running Roon Server > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Pioneer Elite SC-81 > MartinLogan Motion series home theater speakers + M&K subwoofer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried the upsampling feature over the weekend, using the "Max PCM" selection. I have an Acoustic Plan DAC that doesn't do any upsampling on its own, nor does it do DSD. I found that while the upsampling seemed to increase the image density, it also dulled the music line. I found the same results when I tried HQ player with Roon. In my rig, sticking to the native sampling rate seems to work best. IMHO, FWIW. -- David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I tried the upsampling feature over the weekend, using the "Max PCM" selection. I have an Acoustic Plan DAC that doesn't do any upsampling on its own, nor does it do DSD. I found that while the upsampling seemed to increase the image density, it also dulled the music line. I found the same results when I tried HQ player with Roon. In my rig, sticking to the native sampling rate seems to work best. IMHO, FWIW. -- David

Thanks for the info. This stuff is really system dependent and listener dependent.


Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing Polestar | Quick Community Reviews and Ratings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In my rig, sticking to the native sampling rate seems to work best. IMHO, FWIW. -- David

 

Yes, I have drawn the same conclusion. My main DAC is a Chord DAVE which upsamples internally and seems best left to what it was designed for with no external intervention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the info. This stuff is really system dependent and listener dependent.

Very much so, and quite amusing at times to observe all the differences of opinion that exist. One thing I find interesting when people talk about sound quality is the difference between accuracy and preference - the two are not necessarily the same thing. Sometimes less accuracy and even subtle distortions can be perceived as sounding better. This is one reason why people invariably disagree over sound quality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's disappointing, but thanks for the response and updates Chris (invaluable service to the community, as always). For the moment, I shall remain on the fence....

 

According to the guys at Roon, MQA support is coming and they've been waiting for MQA to provide some details to them because Roon works differently with these files than other programs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never had much success with up-sampling in the past (and had stopped trying in recent years). However I did play with the "Max PCM" feature for a bit last night and to my pleasant surprise, the up-sampling with Roon (from 44.1->384, 96->384; 16 & 24 bit to 32bit) actually gave good result. Definitely not a wow factor but it does took out the last bit of graininess in my system and the overall tonality smooth out a bit. I haven't tried DSD but with PCM, it worked out in my system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am about to try Roon for the first time.

 

Is It true that It can take days to index all of my music? JRiver tells me I have 95822 files (or about 5TB worth of music). What should I expect?

 

Thanks!


Arcam rDAC / Oppo BDP-83 / NAD 315BEE / Totem Arro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am about to try Roon for the first time.

 

Is It true that It can take days to index all of my music? JRiver tells me I have 95822 files (or about 5TB worth of music). What should I expect?

 

Thanks!

 

There is a setting that controls this. If you leave it at the default setting (throttled) then it can take a long time.

 

You can change the setting at Settings > Library > Background Audio Analysis Speed

 

My computer has 4 cores which what my setting is. It still takes time but probably hours and not days.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile


Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, Roon, HQP) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > opticalRendu (HQP NAA) > Holo Cyan (DSD version) > Nord One UP NC500MB mono blocks > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP via Roon client

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...