The true experimental tweak thread

[Cornan]

39 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Hi Micael, as promised here is a breakdown of my Sparky I2S Roon endpoint chain, which I have been working on for some months. I had to do a lot of trial and error as there are so many pieces to the chain to get working together. There have been a lot of issues which I have sorted out now and everything is running very smoothly and reliably. The start up sequence is crucial which took me a while to understand and I damaged a few boards which needed replacing. I've added PoE cables on all the power lines and now the result is superb and giving me a SQ that I am very satisfied with using the I2S input of my PS Audio Junior DAC which is superior to the other inputs in my opinion (USB and SPDIF). I am hoping to retire from tweaking for now  and focus on other things - especially the MUSIC which I am enjoying tremendously

Cheers!

 

Awesome Patrick! Thanks a lot for sharing! ?

I am really happy that it was worth the hassle in the end. I glad to read that you will atleast continue on slow tweak speed by ordering the SD card player. You are not gone just yet are you? ?

I will certainly study and grab whatever I can from your experienced. Thanks again! ?

[Cornan]

Behold my new DC cable! This one turned all my engines on at the same time and opened the gates of heaven. No kidding! 

I am now on a mission to get rid of all f my Ghent JSSG (even though I love their looks), ATL and Canare 4S6 for this little cheap bastard! The Supra DAC rules my audio world (right now)! ??

 

 

[tapatrick]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

Awesome Patrick! Thanks a lot for sharing! ?I am really happy that it was worth the hassle in the end.

thanks M

 

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

I glad to read that you will atleast continue on slow tweak speed by ordering the SD card player. You are not gone just yet are you?

 

Yes, "slow tweak speed" is a good description .  I will fiddle with it when I can as I'm curious to see how it sounds, as it works by playing files from an SD card and only has one clock, and its very low noise. I did try to get my hands on the famous SDTrans player but its not easily available any more. As it comes this version has no streaming or Tidal access, but the guys on TirNaHifi are unstoppable experimentalists with great EE knowledge and are hoping to rewrite software and open it up for other uses as it has a lot of promise. Keep an eye out for new breakthroughs there. http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4541&hilit=sd+card

@sligolad has been mentioning it too.

 

Cheers!

[Cornan]

14 hours ago, tapatrick said:

thanks M

 

 

Yes, "slow tweak speed" is a good description .  I will fiddle with it when I can as I'm curious to see how it sounds, as it works by playing files from an SD card and only has one clock, and its very low noise. I did try to get my hands on the famous SDTrans player but its not easily available any more. As it comes this version has no streaming or Tidal access, but the guys on TirNaHifi are unstoppable experimentalists with great EE knowledge and are hoping to rewrite software and open it up for other uses as it has a lot of promise. Keep an eye out for new breakthroughs there. http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4541&hilit=sd+card

@sligolad has been mentioning it too.

 

Cheers!

 

I am absolutely sure that the SD card player will be a really great upgrade Patrick!  I have also kept an eye on the very interesting SDTrans player and other SD card players but I have decided to stay 100% in the streaming swamp for now. I will surely follow that breakthrough if I change my mid (happens all the time). I noticed singolads post about it. 

 

[flkin]

There is a controversial SD card player on the market - the Tera Player ?.

http://www.tera-player.com

I used one for many years and it was a real gem. Not for the people here though as it's not a DIY device and cant be worked on.

[hurka]

9 minutes ago, flkin said:

There is a controversial SD card player on the market - the Tera Player ?.

http://www.tera-player.com

I used one for many years and it was a real gem. Not for the people here though as it's not a DIY device and cant be worked on.

its a joke right????(the price)

[Cornan]

24 minutes ago, flkin said:

There is a controversial SD card player on the market - the Tera Player ?.

http://www.tera-player.com

I used one for many years and it was a real gem. Not for the people here though as it's not a DIY device and cant be worked on.

 

Everything can be worked on in some way IME. You´ll just need to find out how.

 

Agree with @hurka that the Tera Player got to be a joke!  

[flkin]

Like I said ... controversial ! ?

 

Some say it's the best portable music play ever, others say absolutely crap. Very divisive product.

 

For sure Altmann's pricing strategy is crazy - he is a one man show and makes everything himself. So he prices to match his ability to produce. And there are people who will purchase at this price still.

 

I declare that I got mine much earlier when he wasn't that busy at a reasonable price.... just in case  I'm called a joke too. haha

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, flkin said:

Like I said ... controversial ! ?

 

Some say it's the best portable music play ever, others say absolutely crap. Very divisive product.

 

For sure Altmann's pricing strategy is crazy - he is a one man show and makes everything himself. So he prices to match his ability to produce. And there are people who will purchase at this price still.

 

I declare that I got mine much earlier when he wasn't that busy at a reasonable price.... just in case  I'm called a joke too. haha

 

It is a lot of money for a fairly simple device. But hey this is a crazy hobby filled with crazy people!  I´m in there too head over heels!

In a strange way the Tera Player do appeal to me. Not by wanting me to buy it straight off for EUR 2990.-, but to build something similar in Rpi-type of style.  Could be a fun future project!  

 

[BigGuy]

We have recommendations for various treatments of DC cables, e.g., JSSG(360), JSGT, quadcore, Kemet caps, muMetal, etc. which are literally "outside of the box". 

 

What about the PS internal wiring?  Should it be shielded, e.g., JSSG?

 

What about the transformer?  Should it be boxed or canned to mitigate magnetic field interference?

 

I have read that r-core may be better, noisewise, than toroidal but worse with regard to generating fields.

 

Was thinking about going with r-core replacement of toroidal in a planned DIY LPS but now wonder if some sort of Faraday cage, etc., needs to be considered?

 

This has become, in my case, one where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, BigGuy said:

We have recommendations for various treatments of DC cables, e.g., JSSG(360), JSGT, quadcore, Kemet caps, muMetal, etc. which are literally "outside of the box". 

 

What about the PS internal wiring?  Should it be shielded, e.g., JSSG?

 

What about the transformer?  Should it be boxed or canned to mitigate magnetic field interference?

 

I have read that r-core may be better, noisewise, than toroidal but worse with regard to generating fields.

 

Was thinking about going with r-core replacement of toroidal in a planned DIY LPS but now wonder if some sort of Faraday cage, etc., needs to be considered?

 

This has become, in my case, one where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

Little knowledge is not necessarily dangerous. It can be great knowledge when you know where to put the pieces together! ?

 

When it comes to R-core vs toroidal transformers there will be a lot of little knowledge to be gained from here and there. Not dangerous as long as you know how to deal with AC voltage.

My personal take on this “battle” is that if you want something that works great without additional pre-cautions the R-core is what you want. Works great out of the box but will get hot and create a lot of EMI that you will need to deal with by dressing nearby sensitive components and cables in copper or shielding.

 

Toroidal transformers do not generate that much heat and therefore cooling or shielding becomes less of an issue close the transformer. However, it is more noisy so you will have to deal with it by choosing a floating and balanced toroidal transformer. The balanced transformer will cancel out all that noise coming out from the transformer (in theory everything) and the floating input will ensure that there is no backwash into the mains. You can also add a EMI IEC inlet to protect it further. IMO this is the better option to R-core. R-core is just a more simple beast to tame. Others might disagree! ?

 

Regarding internal wiring it depends on the amount of EMI you’ve got. R-core probably shielded as much as possible. Toroidal transformer you are probably safe with less, even unshielded. Otherwise I can recommend shortest possible wires. Silver plated copper or pure silver if you can afford it. Silver solder of course.

 

Anyway, this is my opinion. Others are free to tell their own small or big bunch of little knowledge! ?

 

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, BigGuy said:

What about the transformer?  Should it be boxed or canned to mitigate magnetic field interference?

 

I have read that r-core may be better, noisewise, than toroidal but worse with regard to generating fields.

 

Was thinking about going with r-core replacement of toroidal in a planned DIY LPS but now wonder if some sort of Faraday cage, etc., needs to be considered?

 

Some R-Core transformers also have copper screens. However, with a linear PSU that I made for +5V USB power, connecting the screen to mains earth degraded USB audio slightly, most likely due to the additional capacitance to mains earth.

They are probably great to use other than with USB though.

[Cornan]

Yesturday I ordered Stammheim´s new nifty SD-HPULN PS (12VDC out) that will give my main router a treat. I will bridge the input and output so it will be a 3A single output LT3045 (istead of dual output 1.5A). It uses Panasonic OS-CON aluminium polymer caps which is pretty equal to the Kemet A750.

I will report back how it turns out compared to the LT3045 1A with dual Kemet A750 that I currently use there.

 

 

[Superdad]

10 hours ago, Cornan said:

Works great out of the box but will get hot and create a lot of EMI that you will need to deal with by dressing nearby sensitive components and cables in copper or shielding.

 

Toroidal transformers do not generate that much heat...

 

Sorry but much of what you wrote about R-core versus toroidal transformers is incorrect.

For example, temperature rise is much greater inside a torrid because the core is not exposed at any point so there is no surface area for it to dissipate.

 

Leakage flux from an R-core is extremely small due to balanced windings cancelling out stray flux.

Plus R-core efficiency is higher than a toroidal trans.

 

And those are just the superficial advantages...

 

 

 

[Cornan]

46 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Sorry but most of what you wrote about R-core versus toroidal transformers is incorrect.

For example, temperature rise is much greater inside a torrid because the core is not exposed at any point so there is no surface area for it to dissipate.

 

Leakage flux from an R-core is extremely small due to balanced windings cancelling out stray flux.

Plus R-core efficiency is higher than a toroidal trans.

 

And those are just the superficial advantages...

 

 

 

 

Nothing to be sorry about! It is great that you contribute and correct things here Alex!  I mixed up the heat with the El-core.

 

Here is a link that I have saved with details regarding the three.

 

http://www.shilchargroup.com/electronics-telecom/r-core.aspx?pg=pr&sid=rc

 

       Advantages

 

Reference	R-core Transformer	Toroid Transformer	EI Transformer
Shape	The Standard model is thin, small & light.	Small transformer leads to higher copper loss.	The Ideal shape is square. The transformer tends to be large & heavy.
Leakage flux	With balanced winding canceling the leakage flux, the total amount of leakage flux is extremely small. As a result can be used even without shield.	Winding is not balanced hence there is lot of leakage flux. To reduce the effect there is a need to provide shielding.	There are gaps in the magnetic path and the winding is not balanced. As a result the leakage flux is very high which can affect sensitive electronic components if proper shielding is not provided.
Winding	Winding is done on special machine resulting in evenly spaced winding. Balanced winding is an inherent constituent of the design.	The winding is not evenly spaced. The density of turns on the inner edge is more and on the outer edge the wires are roughly spaced out. Thus the winding is not balanced.	While the layers of turns are well laid out the winding is only on the center limb of the EI core. Thus it is not balanced.
Exiting Current	The exiting current is minimal as all the magnetic paths are in alignment with the rolling direction of the steel and there is no gap in the core.	The exiting current is less than that in EI Transformer, but the same is higher than that of R-core transformer due to lack of balancing of winding.	More exiting current is required due to presence of magnetic gaps, the inability to use the effect of rolling direction of grain oriented steel, the variation in assembly operation, etc.
Insulation	Double structure bobbins are used ensuring complete separation between primary & secondary winding. Thus, safety standards are easily met. The dielectric strength is more than adequate.	The winding is done on the core without the use of bobbin. Thus difficulties are observed in meeting safety standards.	Partition bobbins allow separation between Primary and Secondary bobbins but this is not complete. The dielectric strength is not as good as R-core transformer. Difficulties are observed in meeting safety standards.
Efficiency	Very low losses result in better efficiency. Efficiency greater than 90% is generally observed in most designs.	Efficiency is better than EI transformer but less compared to R-core transformer.	More losses result in poor efficiency.
Heat	Heat generation is minimal due to low Iron loss. The large surface area of the coil allows for better heat dissipation.	The core is not exposed at any point. Thus the heat generated has no area for dissipation. Thus temperature rise is more.	Due to iron loss the heat generation is more. Further as large part of the winding is covered inside the core there is poor heat dissipation.
Mounting	Due to the thin design & lightness can be accommodated in available space of assembly. Can also be mounted vertically on the sides.	Because of circular shape the length & width of the space should be identical.	Usual cubic space takes more space in assembly.

 

 

 

[hurka]

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/modulardac/en_i2sisolator.html

[drjimwillie]

My Balanced MGE/(Topaz clone) 750AV IT puts out 126V.

The IT causes a buzz that comes thru the speakers.

It was suggested that it may be because of the voltage.

I am going to reduce the voltage going into my IT.  I have reached out to Bluewalker Powerwalker and they do not make a product for the USA.

The only other product I have seen mentioned is the APC AVR.  I am considering the APC LE 1200 AVR.

Is this the best product? (I know that it is reasonably priced)  Does anyone have experience with this product? 

 

The way I think it works is if you set the switch in the back to 110V,  if the voltage goes over 110V it will reduce the voltage by 10%.  10% of 126V = 12.6V  126V-12.6V=113.4V  Is this how you understand it will function?  Does 113.4V look like a good operating voltage?

 

Does anyone use a VariAC / Powerstat / Dimmerstat?  What I read is that some of them hurt the sound and some do not.

 

I am thinking of oversizing the APC AVR for two reasons. 1. I do not want to restrict the dynamics (which is funny because I have the IT in the path and I am expecting an ATL DC blocker with 47000 uF/25V MLGOAG Mundorf caps(I hope it is waiting at my house today)).  2. If I can not cure the IT buzz I will probably replace the IT.  If I replace the IT I will get a larger IT because my actual load is 350W and my IT is wired balanced, which I understand reduces the output, so 750W does not give me the suggested overhead for my system.

 

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Will

[Cornan]

21 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

My Balanced MGE/(Topaz clone) 750AV IT puts out 126V.

The IT causes a buzz that comes thru the speakers.

It was suggested that it may be because of the voltage.

I am going to reduce the voltage going into my IT.  I have reached out to Bluewalker Powerwalker and they do not make a product for the USA.

The only other product I have seen mentioned is the APC AVR.  I am considering the APC LE 1200 AVR.

Is this the best product? (I know that it is reasonably priced)  Does anyone have experience with this product? 

 

The way I think it works is if you set the switch in the back to 110V,  if the voltage goes over 110V it will reduce the voltage by 10%.  10% of 126V = 12.6V  126V-12.6V=113.4V  Is this how you understand it will function?  Does 113.4V look like a good operating voltage?

 

Does anyone use a VariAC / Powerstat / Dimmerstat?  What I read is that some of them hurt the sound and some do not.

 

I am thinking of oversizing the APC AVR for two reasons. 1. I do not want to restrict the dynamics (which is funny because I have the IT in the path and I am expecting an ATL DC blocker with 47000 uF/25V MLGOAG Mundorf caps(I hope it is waiting at my house today)).  2. If I can not cure the IT buzz I will probably replace the IT.  If I replace the IT I will get a larger IT because my actual load is 350W and my IT is wired balanced, which I understand reduces the output, so 750W does not give me the suggested overhead for my system.

 

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Will

 

Transformer buzz have many reasons. One is DC currents. A DC blocker trap filter will cure that. The other reason is that the transformer core is not secured. Check that it is bolted firmly into the chassi. Since the IT is balanced the last option is ruled out.

[drjimwillie]

 The actual IT is dead silent. The buzz comes through the speakers. 

 I have to put my ear up to the speaker to hear it.  

 

 I have gone through all kinds of diagnostics to prove that it is the IT. These diagnostics can be seen in the AC mains isolation thread. 

 

 Should I worry about buzz that I have to put my ear up to the speaker to hear?

 My gut feeling is that the IT is supposed to make things quieter. If I have a buzz,  I feel that it may be obscuring the detail.   What do you think? 

[drjimwillie]

I put in the ATL DC Blocker with the Mundorf caps.  I understand the caps take about 200 hours to burn in. 

 After a few hours   I put on Steely Dan, Asia. I can say that the sound is  rounder, a  more cohesive whole. 

 20 years ago my test tune was Jimi Hendrix Voodoo chile.   Now there is a motion, pulse/flow  that was not there before. 

 I wired in 16 gauge Romex and a wall switch to test lifting the ground.  I had been listening with the ground lifted from the secondary.  When I  reestablished the ground,  there was more energy.  The motion was more fearse.  There was More space in the concert hall and more air. 

 At this point in my system, there must be energy that needs some place to go. 

previously with the ground lifted on the secondary,  I thought the system sounded a bit congested.  Although it sounded faster.  I will test lifting the secondary ground again after that system has been playing for a while so that whatever  excess energy has dissipated, and then I left the ground. 

 

 But the big question, did the DC blocker get rid of the buzz in the speakers - no. 

 

[sandyk]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 5:45 AM, drjimwillie said:

Should I worry about buzz that I have to put my ear up to the speaker to hear?

 My gut feeling is that the IT is supposed to make things quieter. If I have a buzz,  I feel that it may be obscuring the detail.   What do you think?

 

 It most definitely is affecting very low level detail, especially higher order low level harmonics.

[tims]

Hi Micael

I've got a ISO Regen and Luckit bluewave board the same as you but am not using them at the moment but want to now. 

As I've only got one decent adjustable LPU available (output 3 amps), I'm going to use this to supply both the ISO Regen and the bluwave board at 5v.

Do you think this will compromise the galvanic isolation of the IR or adversely affect the SQ in any way using just one PS for both units?  

Thanks 

[jabbr]

If you are using an isolation transformer and you have increased hum “buzz” coming from your speakers then the transformer is not helping, rather hurting. It may be defective or else you may have another issue. 

[BigGuy]

20 minutes ago, jabbr said:

If you are using an isolation transformer and you have increased hum “buzz” coming from your speakers then the transformer is not helping, rather hurting. It may be defective or else you may have another issue. 

Maybe already reported but does the system/speakers buzz if IT is removed?

[jabbr]

1 minute ago, BigGuy said:

Maybe already reported but does the system/speakers buzz if IT is removed?

Its going to be hard to diagnose in this thread, but as the system becomes more complicated, there are more places for errors, and malfunctions, and bad connections and this is a setup for ground loops and leakage currents which often result in increased hum. When an IT is working and being used correctly, the hum decreases.