The true experimental tweak thread

[sbilotta]

Does this look any good as an isolating transformer for a whole system  ?  https://www.criticalpowersupplies.co.uk/AIT-Ultra-Isolation-Variation-5000-5kVA

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, sbilotta said:

Does this look any good as an isolating transformer for a whole system  ?  https://www.criticalpowersupplies.co.uk/AIT-Ultra-Isolation-Variation-5000-5kVA

 

Two thing to be aware of:

1. This is a ultra isolation transformer and NOT a safety isolation transformer or tech style isolation transformer (same thing but different names) with floating secondary. A safety isolation transformer is usually a better option if you make sure to find one with a low-interwinding capacitance. For analogue power hungry devices a safety isolation transformer followed by a ultra isolation transformer or balanced power supply (ultra isolation transformer with center tapped ground) could be a good idea. For digital devices a safety IT is better.

An ultra isolation transformer will sound better plugged into a power filter or a safety IT. A safety IT is best plugged into a good quality powerstrip without filters or protection of any kind.

 

2. 5kVA is probably suitable for your whole house. 

With safety isolation transformer bigger is not necessarily better. Many claims that less powerful sounds better, but up to 2kVA should be ok close to your setup. At the same time they need power overhead to perform best. Best is to check the total power consumption of your setup and ensure to get one with 25-50% overhead and if it exceeds it but more than one and separate analogue and digital devices to their own ITs. Just my 2c.

[mozes]

5 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

This means that the ac input safety ground is completely isolated from the DC output of the PSU. The safety ground is floating, ie. connected to the psu chassi instead of passing it through to the DC output. 

 

 

The answer to this question could fill a whole thread, so I will provide a link with some information of Ultra ITs instead http://www.aelgroup.co.uk/faq/faq061.php

In short words Ultra ITs attenuates common-mode noise since primary & secondary windings are isolated from each other, but the noise is shunted to the safety ground and is not floating as on a tech style IT with floating secondary. 

In general I prefer a tech style IT but with power amps and active speakers I would actually prefer both in series.

Thanks @Cornan I got the first point one, and for the second I need to do some reading

[mozes]

27 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Two thing to be aware of:

1. This is a ultra isolation transformer and NOT a safety isolation transformer or tech style isolation transformer (same thing but different names) with floating secondary. A safety isolation transformer is usually a better option if you make sure to find one with a low-interwinding capacitance. For analogue power hungry devices a safety isolation transformer followed by a ultra isolation transformer or balanced power supply (ultra isolation transformer with center tapped ground) could be a good idea. For digital devices a safety IT is better.

An ultra isolation transformer will sound better plugged into a power filter or a safety IT. A safety IT is best plugged into a good quality powerstrip without filters or protection of any kind.

 

2. 5kVA is probably suitable for your whole house. 

With safety isolation transformer bigger is not necessarily better. Many claims that less powerful sounds better, but up to 2kVA should be ok close to your setup. At the same time they need power overhead to perform best. Best is to check the total power consumption of your setup and ensure to get one with 25-50% overhead and if it exceeds it but more than one and separate analogue and digital devices to their own ITs. Just my 2c.

I made my own isolation solution

one circuit for digital and another one for analogue. This is better than humming and cost almost the same

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, mozes said:

I made my own isolation solution

one circuit for digital and another one for analogue. This is better than humming and cost almost the same

 

You are one of the chosen few with a truly dedicated mains. Especially if you have separated analogue and digital into separate circuits. You are hereby disqualified from this suggestion! ??

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

AFAIK attenuators have no negative impact to SQ except for the additional connection. They are quite transparent. You will normally find them in passive preamps for example which is normally a better choise than an active preamp if you want to limit the affects on the sound signature.

 

Oh, that is a very broad generalization and not one to be taken without questions.  Even leaving aside active preamps entirely, there is a whole world of discussion and debate about various attenuator topology, design, and materials.  Enough for a very lively and long separate thread.  

 

With my Hovland buddies we started building stepped attenuators back in the late 1970s/early 1980s.  (In fact, we were Caddock's very first audio industry customer, and we did crazy things like series/parallel 4 resistors per step on critical top steps in a 24-postion unit.)  Here's a couple of old pics:

 

And here is one of the very first 47-postion stereo Slagleformers recently produced by Dave Slagle.   This may be the ultimate attenuator as it has a very low output impedance, is capable of driving long cables, and can even provide a few dB of gain.

 

I recently got a nice case and big knob for it and just need to make the time drill/mount/wire it.

[Cornan]

12 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Oh, that is a very broad generalization and not one to be taken without questions.  Even leaving aside active preamps entirely, there is a whole world of discussion and debate about various attenuator topology, design, and materials.  Enough for a very lively and long separate thread.  

 

With my Hovland buddies we started building stepped attenuators back in the late 1970s/early 1980s.  (In fact, we were Caddock's very first audio industry customer, and we did crazy things like series/parallel 4 resistors per step on critical top steps in a 24-postion unit.)  Here's a couple of old pics:

 

And here is one of the very first 47-postion stereo Slagleformers recently produced by Dave Slagle.   This may be the ultimate attenuator as it has a very low output impedance, is capable of driving long cables, and can even provide a few dB of gain.

 

I recently got a nice case and big knob for it and just need to make the time drill/mount/wire it.

 

I do not quite understand just why attenuators is not a good idea? I am all ears! ?

[Cornan]

5 hours ago, mozes said:

Thanks @Cornan I got the first point one, and for the second I need to do some reading

 

The second one requires a lot for reading to sink in. Trust me! ?

[Cornan]

Here is a short explanation of ITs:

 

Safety IT: reduces differential mode noise. If low-interwinding capacitance it will reduce common-mode noise as well. A voltage regulator and/or DC blocker pre the safety IT might improve sq. 

 

Ultra IT: reduces  common-mode noise. If a safety IT or power filter is used pre the Ultra IT it might reduce differential-mode. A voltage regulator might improve sq.

 

Balanced IT: reduces common-mode noise and will ensure a balanced mains with same voltage on secondary and primary winding. A safety IT pre the balanced IT might improve sq.

 

If I got something wrong please let me know! ?

[Cornan]

On 2017-04-13 at 7:29 PM, austinpop said:

Hey @Cornan

 

Have you checked out the new Aries Mini 5.0 beta1 firmware, along with the beta Lightning 4.2 beta app?

 

I am very impressed with Auralic - this is a huge upgrade - for free for existing customers. See:

 

 

 

Now I have tried firmware 5.0 beta 1 (5.0 beta 2 still not available for me) with LightningDS beta 4.2. Listening to Bat For Lashes "The Bride" in MQA is a major jump in sq. Still a bit "edgy" compared to BubbleDS Next but I'll guess Auralic will improve it further until it runs out of beta. Overall a very nice upgrade indeed. Love it! ?

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Now I have tried firmware 5.0 beta 1 (5.0 beta 2 still not available for me) with LightningDS beta 4.2. Listening to Bat For Lashes "The Bride" in MQA is a major jump in sq. Still a bit "edgy" compared to BubbleDS Next but I'll guess Auralic will improve it further until it runs out of beta. Overall a very nice upgrade indeed. Love it! ?

 

Great! If you want to find more Tidal MQA content, this crowd sourced Google Sheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10VtON9VjMAt3uyHC2-Oo2MjIa3orv9DKZfwiRQKmTAA - while messy, is a good place to look.

 

BTW - Wang says that they're improving their MQA upsampling, and the version currently in the beta is just a test implementation. So he clearly thinks it will improve.

[Cornan]

38 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Great! If you want to find more Tidal MQA content, this crowd sourced Google Sheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10VtON9VjMAt3uyHC2-Oo2MjIa3orv9DKZfwiRQKmTAA - while messy, is a good place to look.

 

BTW - Wang says that they're improving their MQA upsampling, and the version currently in the beta is just a test implementation. So he clearly thinks it will improve.

 

Thanks Rajiv! 

If LightningDS will improves further I might even start using it instead of my beloved BubbleDS Next. It is not far off I tell you and MQA sound marvelous compared to normal FLAC! 

Thanks for the pointer to the Google sheet. I will check it out! ?

 

BTW. Is Aries Mini really Roon-ready now? Looks like it to these eyes! ? If that's true I might consider to buy myself a NAS and get Roon as soon as my wallet let me! ?

 

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks Rajiv! 

If LightningDS will improves further I might even start using it instead of my beloved BubbleDS Next. It is not far off I tell you and MQA sound marvelous compared to normal FLAC! 

Thanks for the pointer to the Google sheet. I will check it out! ?

 

BTW. Is Aries Mini really Roon-ready now? Looks like it to these eyes! ? If that's true I might consider to buy myself a NAS and get Roon as soon as my wallet let me! ?

 

 

Yes, that is a welcome and quite unexpected surprise. The Aries Mini is Roon Ready. I'm playing with it now.

 

Since I run Roon Core on a W10 box, optimized with AO, to my ears at least, Tidal files (regular, not Master) sound better via Roon rather than the native Tidal in Lightning running on the Mini.

 

The fake-MQA-decoding on the Mini changes that again, since comparing fake-MQA decoded Tidal Masters files vs. the untouched Masters files through Roon, the balance shifts back to the Mini.

 

However, Roon has stated that they are licensing the MQA SW decoding from MQA, which performs the first unfold, just like the TIdal app on WIn/Mac. So hopefully soon, Roon will be able to do the real MQA SW decoding on Masters tracks. I'm convinced this will tilt the balance back to Roon.

[mozes]

18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, that is a welcome and quite unexpected surprise. The Aries Mini is Roon Ready. I'm playing with it now.

 

Since I run Roon Core on a W10 box, optimized with AO, to my ears at least, Tidal files (regular, not Master) sound better via Roon rather than the native Tidal in Lightning running on the Mini.

 

The fake-MQA-decoding on the Mini changes that again, since comparing fake-MQA decoded Tidal Masters files vs. the untouched Masters files through Roon, the balance shifts back to the Mini.

 

However, Roon has stated that they are licensing the MQA SW decoding from MQA, which performs the first unfold, just like the TIdal app on WIn/Mac. So hopefully soon, Roon will be able to do the real MQA SW decoding on Masters tracks. I'm convinced this will tilt the balance back to Roon.

Can Roon right now pass through MQA files to MQA davs like the Brooklyn?

[austinpop]

Just now, mozes said:

Can Roon right now pass through MQA files to MQA davs like the Brooklyn?

 

Yes, absolutely.

[mozes]

33 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, absolutely.

That's great news, have you done any comparison between Jriver and Roon purely from a sonic perspective?

[austinpop]

2 minutes ago, mozes said:

That's great news, have you done any comparison between Jriver and Roon purely from a sonic perspective?

 

I've never used JRiver. I was previously using MinimServer, running on both my NAS, and more recently on my W10/AO-optimized bridged box.

 

I've done comparisons of streaming via RAAT - i.e. Roon Core to Roon Ready endpoint - vs. DLNA using MinimServer, and cannot hear any difference. Others have insisted they think RAAT sounds better. Not to my ears.

 

But there are enough functional reasons to like Roon.

 

And of course, this does not factor in upsampling or DSP, which is a whole other can of worms. I wrote about this in my recent Aries Mini vs. mR vs. sMS-200 thread here:

 

 

[mozes]

10 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I've never used JRiver. I was previously using MinimServer, running on both my NAS, and more recently on my W10/AO-optimized bridged box.

 

I've done comparisons of streaming via RAAT - i.e. Roon Core to Roon Ready endpoint - vs. DLNA using MinimServer, and cannot hear any difference. Others have insisted they think RAAT sounds better. Not to my ears.

 

But there are enough functional reasons to like Roon.

 

And of course, this does not factor in upsampling or DSP, which is a whole other can of worms. I wrote about this in my recent Aries Mini vs. mR vs. sMS-200 thread here:

 

 

Thanks @austinpop for sharing your impressions, the only feature I am interested in is the Tidal integration with MQA pass through as I already have the Brooklyn. Now I prefer Tidal with BubbleDS Next and Jplaystreamer, but I will keep my eyes open on the development of new features by Roon

[Cornan]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, that is a welcome and quite unexpected surprise. The Aries Mini is Roon Ready. I'm playing with it now.

 

Since I run Roon Core on a W10 box, optimized with AO, to my ears at least, Tidal files (regular, not Master) sound better via Roon rather than the native Tidal in Lightning running on the Mini.

 

The fake-MQA-decoding on the Mini changes that again, since comparing fake-MQA decoded Tidal Masters files vs. the untouched Masters files through Roon, the balance shifts back to the Mini.

 

However, Roon has stated that they are licensing the MQA SW decoding from MQA, which performs the first unfold, just like the TIdal app on WIn/Mac. So hopefully soon, Roon will be able to do the real MQA SW decoding on Masters tracks. I'm convinced this will tilt the balance back to Roon.

 

Thanks, very helpful information! ? I am not standing in the doorway just yet though. I'll need to save up before I pull the plug. Since I have'nt digged deep into Roon requirements I will need to study a bit to understand if and how I want to start as well. I do have an optimized W10 computer already but do not want to use it. I would prefer something like the small green computer with Roon remote, but are not 100% sure that it will cover all my needs and expectations. My Roon knowledge is a bit dusty. Time to swivel it clean and learn what have happened since the release! ?

[mozes]

42 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks, very helpful information! ? I am not standing in the doorway just yet though. I'll need to save up before I pull the plug. Since I have'nt digged deep into Roon requirements I will need to study a bit to understand if and how I want to start as well. I do have an optimized W10 computer already but do not want to use it. I would prefer something like the small green computer with Roon remote, but are not 100% sure that it will cover all my needs and expectations. My Roon knowledge is a bit dusty. Time to swivel it clean and learn what have happened since the release! ?

I downloaded a trial version of Roon to try it out and see how it integrates Tidal. I have to say that there are aspects that I like but overall not sure impressed with it. More on Roon experience to come soon once I can get it to work bit perfect with my Brooklyn

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, mozes said:

I downloaded a trial version of Roon to try it out and see how it integrates Tidal. I have to say that there are aspects that I like but overall not sure impressed with it. More on Roon experience to come soon once I can get it to work bit perfect with my Brooklyn

 

Thanks Moussa! 

I am very interested in your thoughts! ? I have started to study Roon and looking for suitable hardwares, but are far from a final call. It will not be possible until autumn/winter in any case. Any positive and negative experiances are interesting to me until then! ?

[austinpop]

I should write up my experiences with Roon and post it somewhere.

 

In a nutshell, Roon has a steep learning curve. Yeah, the basics are simple - point to the library, point to the endpoint, boom, done - right? Wrong! It takes time to learn the nuances. I went from being a deep skeptic, convinced it wasn't for me, to a lifetime subscriber, over the course of a 60-day trial.

 

But it is certainly not for everyone. For example, if you're primarily using Tidal as your music source, I won't try to convince you the cost of Roon is worth it.

 

All I can say is - if you see potential, be patient and keep digging into it. There are a lot of features and neat ideas below the surface, and over time you will have some aha moments. Or not - in which case, you shouldn't waste your money.

[Cornan]

17 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I should write up my experiences with Roon and post it somewhere.

 

In a nutshell, Roon has a steep learning curve. Yeah, the basics are simple - point to the library, point to the endpoint, boom, done - right? Wrong! It takes time to learn the nuances. I went from being a deep skeptic, convinced it wasn't for me, to a lifetime subscriber, over the course of a 60-day trial.

 

But it is certainly not for everyone. For example, if you're primarily using Tidal as your music source, I won't try to convince you the cost of Roon is worth it.

 

All I can say is - if you see potential, be patient and keep digging into it. There are a lot of features and neat ideas below the surface, and over time you will have some aha moments. Or not - in which case, you shouldn't waste your money.

 

Thanks!

I decided some time ago to concentrate on Tidal only. Right or wrong. I will dig deeper into Roon to get myself updated. I have also promised myself never to go down a pc based path again. However, a SonicTransporter (would rather want a Nimitra but it is too expensive for my budget as a Roon server only) is still a pc but not enough to scare me away completely. I will use the time I'll need to save up to find out if there is something in it for me! ?

[mozes]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

I should write up my experiences with Roon and post it somewhere.

 

In a nutshell, Roon has a steep learning curve. Yeah, the basics are simple - point to the library, point to the endpoint, boom, done - right? Wrong! It takes time to learn the nuances. I went from being a deep skeptic, convinced it wasn't for me, to a lifetime subscriber, over the course of a 60-day trial.

 

But it is certainly not for everyone. For example, if you're primarily using Tidal as your music source, I won't try to convince you the cost of Roon is worth it.

 

All I can say is - if you see potential, be patient and keep digging into it. There are a lot of features and neat ideas below the surface, and over time you will have some aha moments. Or not - in which case, you shouldn't waste your money.

Thanks @austinpop for sharing your impressions. I am not on a smooth ride with Roon it seems.

-Does Roon support Native DSD256 playback?

-If yes, do I have to use the Brooklyn windows ASIO driver? I can only see the Wasapi driver to connect to

-Now I can play DSD either via DOP or transcode to PCM

-I can't run Roon control on my laptop, I updated the driver for the display adapter (Intel HD graphics 4000) still no luck!

-MQA unfolding as of now is only showing 44.1/24 with MQA blue light on on Masters when I set exclusive mode.

-If someone is using Roon with the Brooklyn with Roon, pls share your audio settings

On the positive side of things, It is clear that Roon is above all the other audio software I have experienced in terms of features, interface, graphics, integration with Tidal, etc.

 

[austinpop]

I can't answer all your questions, but will try to help point you to where to look/ask.

 

51 minutes ago, mozes said:

-Does Roon support Native DSD256 playback?

 

Yes, the capability exists, AFAIK.

https://kb.roonlabs.com/FAQ:_Does_Roon_support_DSD%3F

 

51 minutes ago, mozes said:

-If yes, do I have to use the Brooklyn windows ASIO driver? I can only see the Wasapi driver to connect to

-If someone is using Roon with the Brooklyn with Roon, pls share your audio settings

 

All this Wasapi and ASIO driver stuff is one of the reasons I prefer using endpoints! A couple of places to look for expertise:

1. Roon community forum: https://community.roonlabs.com
2. Brooklyn thread on CA: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/25353-mytek-new-dac-brooklyn/?do=findComment&comment=466563

51 minutes ago, mozes said:

-Now I can play DSD either via DOP or transcode to PCM

 

Does it work natively for DSD64 and DSD128?

 

51 minutes ago, mozes said:

-I can't run Roon control on my laptop, I updated the driver for the display adapter (Intel HD graphics 4000) still no luck!

 

More Windows weirdness. I honestly just futzed with my display drivers to get it to work. Mine is working with Intel HD 4600. Here is what mine looks like. Make sure you reboot - sounds lame!

 

 

51 minutes ago, mozes said:

-MQA unfolding as of now is only showing 44.1/24 with MQA blue light on on Masters when I set exclusive mode.

 

That's how it should be. Roon MQA unfolding support is not yet out. So it should be passing through MQA content at 24/48 or 24/44.1 to the Brooklyn. The success is if the Brooklyn indicates it is receiving an MQA stream. I don't know the Brooklyn, but it hopefully shows you an authenticated MQA "blue" light, as well as the unfolded sample rate?

 

51 minutes ago, mozes said:

On the positive side of things, It is clear that Roon is above all the other audio software I have experienced in terms of features, interface, graphics, integration with Tidal, etc.

 

Indeed!