The true experimental tweak thread

[Cornan]

41 minutes ago, moussaobeid said:

@Cornan

Maybe a stupid question, but can you ground a device from two different places like chassis and RCA?

 

Do you mean that you want to ground one device with two ground connection to one grounding box? That is possible but might not improve it further. It could even make it worse. Mind to ground digital ground (analogue RCA) and analogue ground (digital RCA/Spdif/Ethernet/USB) to separate grounding boxes. Chassi ground should be connected to a separate box as well IME. A DAC can for example be grounded with three boxes. One for digital ground, one for analogue ground and one for chassi ground. Used like this each box can make a difference for the better, but the first box will be outstanding in comparence. Using  one box for analogue ground, digital ground and chassi ground potensially could make it worse than with just one box. You will end up with mixed analogue and digital grounds and a potensial ground loop. But do not take my word for it. Experiment. It all comes down to how the ground is wired in that perticular device and which grounding spots you use.

 

If you drain away noises to a box outside the device you want it to stay there. You do not want to provide an additional path back to the same device, giving the noise a chance to find its way back! ?

 

[mozes]

Thanks @Cornan yes that is exactly my idea. I see your point about the separate grounding boxes for chassis, digital and analogue. A Dac can have 3 grounding boxes, and everything else can have 2 like a PC or analogue preamp. I may end up with a collection of these tiny ebay boxes very soon

 

 

[Cornan]

14 minutes ago, moussaobeid said:

Thanks @Cornan yes that is exactly my idea. I see your point about the separate grounding boxes for chassis, digital and analogue. A Dac can have 3 grounding boxes, and everything else can have 2 like a PC or analogue preamp. I may end up with a collection of these tiny ebay boxes very soon

 

 

 

It is very tempting to buy several grounding boxes when you have heard what it can bring to the table. However, my advice is to run slowly. Suddenly when you get to a certain point of "complete isolation" with both AC/DC and ICs a grounding box will not make a difference and can even make it a tiny bit worse. At that point you will have a spare box to use! ? You can actually use the box as a kind of "nose sniffer" as I have. If it makes a great impact on SQ you will know where the isolation needs to be improved. I do think that despite how much you isolate you will always find a place for it in the safety ground or chassi ground.

 

A tip! If you are picky with your car sound you can actually ground your car as well with great results! ?

[mozes]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

It is very tempting to buy several grounding boxes when you have heard what it can bring to the table. However, my advice is to run slowly. Suddenly when you get to a certain point of "complete isolation" with both AC/DC and ICs a grounding box will not make a difference and can even make it a tiny bit worse. At that point you will have a spare box to use! ? You can actually use the box as a kind of "nose sniffer" as I have. If it makes a great impact on SQ you will know where the isolation needs to be improved. I do think that despite how much you isolate you will always find a place for it in the safety ground or chassi ground.

 

A tip! If you are picky with your car sound you can actually ground your car as well with great results! ?

Love the car idea, amazing!!

[mozes]

Help pls!

Ok my DIY DC voltage/ammeter is progressing with some challenges. Here is what I built now a female to male 2.5mm adapter with the positive and negative wires provisioned for to connect to the DC ammeter that I just got from Amazon.

The issue now is that it has 5 wires, the two thin ones are for power supply and the three thick ones are supposed to measure the current/voltage of the device I want. I am now stuck at the wiring and don't know how to connect them.

Here is a link to the ammeter page with diagrams of the wiring https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00BYKRETK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

These diagrams are also attached here for your convenience.

 

It looks messy but this is ok, It will do the job once wired correctly. I tested it with a 9V battery supply and it works.

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

It is very tempting to buy several grounding boxes when you have heard what it can bring to the table. However, my advice is to run slowly. Suddenly when you get to a certain point of "complete isolation" with both AC/DC and ICs a grounding box will not make a difference and can even make it a tiny bit worse. At that point you will have a spare box to use! ? You can actually use the box as a kind of "nose sniffer" as I have. If it makes a great impact on SQ you will know where the isolation needs to be improved. I do think that despite how much you isolate you will always find a place for it in the safety ground or chassi ground.

 

A tip! If you are picky with your car sound you can actually ground your car as well with great results! ?

 

Can you attach them to excitable people too, to make them "more grounded?" 

[mozes]

Initial impressions of SOTM tX-USBultra:

 

Since this is the tweak thread, I will share my initial impressions of SOTM tX-USBultra here. I got delivery of my unit yesterday, then I plugged it in my system in the evening. What I did is to critically listen to 3 or tracks on my system with  configuration (1):

 

(1) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>RUR (LPS-1)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC.

 

The system simply sounded fabulous, music just flows with a sense of realism and 3D especially after installing my two dedicated circuits (one for digital and another for analogue)

Here I would like to mention that I upgraded my AO from version 2.0 to 2.10 and it made a significant improvement, then I upgraded to the beta AO 2.20 and the sound went to another level (more transparent, wide soundstage and better separation).

 

Then I removed the RUR+LPS-1 and replaced them with the SOTM tX-USBultra powered by the second rail of the JS-2 at 12V (my unit has the 12v option) so configuration (2) is as follows:

 

(2) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>SOTM tX-USBultra(JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC.

 

just out of the box without any burn-in, configuration 2 clearly elevated the sound of my system in all directions, most importantly to me, a sense of feeling that the music is so real and so clear you feel that the notes are sharper and more defined in the soundstage, a veil taken off the music! (a cliche but it accurately describes my experience)

 

I didn't try to power it with the VR MINI because I use it on the Brooklyn and if I change this configuration, then it won't be A/B comparison anymore. My logic now is that I can improve it by freeing the JS-2 from feeding two units and keep it only to Nimitra and get a dedicated PSU to power the SOTM tX-USBultra, but too early now to make any decisions before I get my DC ammeter working.

So (RUR+LPS-1) will be staying with me for a short time to do some A/B comparisons after 1 or 2 weeks when the SOTM tX-USBultra has settled in my system and most probably will be listed for sale.

 

My learning is that isolation by ultra-capacitors is important but super clock with a good LPS can be more important.

 

I hope this helps others on a similar path

[mozes]

21 minutes ago, moussaobeid said:

Initial impressions of SOTM tX-USBultra:

 

Since this is the tweak thread, I will share my initial impressions of SOTM tX-USBultra here. I got delivery of my unit yesterday, then I plugged it in my system in the evening. What I did is to critically listen to 3 or tracks on my system with  configuration (1):

 

(1) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>RUR (LPS-1)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC.

 

The system simply sounded fabulous, music just flows with a sense of realism and 3D especially after installing my two dedicated circuits (one for digital and another for analogue)

Here I would like to mention that I upgraded my AO from version 2.0 to 2.10 and it made a significant improvement, then I upgraded to the beta AO 2.20 and the sound went to another level (more transparent, wide soundstage and better separation).

 

Then I removed the RUR+LPS-1 and replaced them with the SOTM tX-USBultra powered by the second rail of the JS-2 at 12V (my unit has the 12v option) so configuration (2) is as follows:

 

(2) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>SOTM tX-USBultra(JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC.

 

just out of the box without any burn-in, configuration 2 clearly elevated the sound of my system in all directions, most importantly to me, a sense of feeling that the music is so real and so clear you feel that the notes are sharper and more defined in the soundstage, a veil taken off the music! (a cliche but it accurately describes my experience)

 

I didn't try to power it with the VR MINI because I use it on the Brooklyn and if I change this configuration, then it won't be A/B comparison anymore. My logic now is that I can improve it by freeing the JS-2 from feeding two units and keep it only to Nimitra and get a dedicated PSU to power the SOTM tX-USBultra, but too early now to make any decisions before I get my DC ammeter working.

So (RUR+LPS-1) will be staying with me for a short time to do some A/B comparisons after 1 or 2 weeks when the SOTM tX-USBultra has settled in my system and most probably will be listed for sale.

 

My learning is that isolation by ultra-capacitors is important but super clock with a good LPS can be more important.

 

I hope this helps others on a similar path

Forgot to mention that what I don't like about it is that all the connections are cramped on one side close to each other which makes setting it up with short cables a big hassle!

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, moussaobeid said:

Initial impressions of SOTM tX-USBultra:

 

Since this is the tweak thread, I will share my initial impressions of SOTM tX-USBultra here. I got delivery of my unit yesterday, then I plugged it in my system in the evening. What I did is to critically listen to 3 or tracks on my system with  configuration (1):

 

(1) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>RUR (LPS-1)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC.

 

The system simply sounded fabulous, music just flows with a sense of realism and 3D especially after installing my two dedicated circuits (one for digital and another for analogue)

Here I would like to mention that I upgraded my AO from version 2.0 to 2.10 and it made a significant improvement, then I upgraded to the beta AO 2.20 and the sound went to another level (more transparent, wide soundstage and better separation).

 

Then I removed the RUR+LPS-1 and replaced them with the SOTM tX-USBultra powered by the second rail of the JS-2 at 12V (my unit has the 12v option) so configuration (2) is as follows:

 

(2) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>SOTM tX-USBultra(JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC.

 

just out of the box without any burn-in, configuration 2 clearly elevated the sound of my system in all directions, most importantly to me, a sense of feeling that the music is so real and so clear you feel that the notes are sharper and more defined in the soundstage, a veil taken off the music! (a cliche but it accurately describes my experience)

 

I didn't try to power it with the VR MINI because I use it on the Brooklyn and if I change this configuration, then it won't be A/B comparison anymore. My logic now is that I can improve it by freeing the JS-2 from feeding two units and keep it only to Nimitra and get a dedicated PSU to power the SOTM tX-USBultra, but too early now to make any decisions before I get my DC ammeter working.

So (RUR+LPS-1) will be staying with me for a short time to do some A/B comparisons after 1 or 2 weeks when the SOTM tX-USBultra has settled in my system and most probably will be listed for sale.

 

My learning is that isolation by ultra-capacitors is important but super clock with a good LPS can be more important.

 

I hope this helps others on a similar path

 

Awesome - thanks for your first impressions. This is very exciting to hear of the SQ bump you experienced.

 

May I suggest removing the Intona from the chain to see what the net impact will be? Also, I do think it would be interesting to swap the VR Mini and the JS-2 - i.e. use the VR for the tX, and the JS-2 for the Brooklyn, to see what combo sounds superior.

 

I'm sure over time, you'll be doing these experiments - it's the tweaker's creed after all! - and I'm sure the tX will improve further with some burn-in too.

 

One of the open questions is whether the tX can be powered by the LPS-1, but in your case, it's a moot point, since you got the 12V version of the tX, so your PSU choices are different.

[mozes]

2 hours ago, moussaobeid said:

Help pls!

Ok my DIY DC voltage/ammeter is progressing with some challenges. Here is what I built now a female to male 2.5mm adapter with the positive and negative wires provisioned for to connect to the DC ammeter that I just got from Amazon.

The issue now is that it has 5 wires, the two thin ones are for power supply and the three thick ones are supposed to measure the current/voltage of the device I want. I am now stuck at the wiring and don't know how to connect them.

Here is a link to the ammeter page with diagrams of the wiring https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00BYKRETK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

These diagrams are also attached here for your convenience.

 

It looks messy but this is ok, It will do the job once wired correctly. I tested it with a 9V battery supply and it works.

I decided to kill this project although I got the voltage to work with my adapter, to get the current measurement I need to properly connect the yellow wire. Anyway, I am returning it and just ordered a new multi-meter that can measure DC current as mine can only read AC current.

I learned something though and had some fun

[mozes]

9 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Awesome - thanks for your first impressions. This is very exciting to hear of the SQ bump you experienced.

 

May I suggest removing the Intona from the chain to see what the net impact will be? Also, I do think it would be interesting to swap the VR Mini and the JS-2 - i.e. use the VR for the tX, and the JS-2 for the Brooklyn, to see what combo sounds superior.

 

I'm sure over time, you'll be doing these experiments - it's the tweaker's creed after all! - and I'm sure the tX will improve further with some burn-in too.

 

One of the open questions is whether the tX can be powered by the LPS-1, but in your case, it's a moot point, since you got the 12V version of the tX, so your PSU choices are different.

I will be removing the intona from the chain but not before a week till the tX burns in and I got a sense of the sound. It will make it easy for me to spot changes for the better or worse.

The VR mini always sounded better than the JS-2 in my previous tests which I repeated 2 or 3 times. Maybe it has to do with leakage loops, the question is what about a second VR with tX? that would be something interesting to try but for a lot more $$$. I will try a cheapo 12V battery tomorrow with the tX

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, moussaobeid said:

I will be removing the intona from the chain but not before a week till the tX burns in and I got a sense of the sound. It will make it easy for me to spot changes for the better or worse.

The VR mini always sounded better than the JS-2 in my previous tests which I repeated 2 or 3 times. Maybe it has to do with leakage loops, the question is what about a second VR with tX? that would be something interesting to try but for a lot more $$$. I will try a cheapo 12V battery tomorrow with the tX

 

Another suggested experiment - use the VR MINI to power BOTH the tX and the Brooklyn, using a Y-cable.

[mozes]

4 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Another suggested experiment - use the VR MINI to power BOTH the tX and the Brooklyn, using a Y-cable.

exactly, and this is easy to do, will be doing many tests in the coming days and will be sharing my observations. Any ideas pls shoot. I will also be doing the DC current measurements in the coming days as well

[Cornan]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Can you attach them to excitable people too, to make them "more grounded?" 

 

I am sure you can!  ? Actually, if you start to search and read a lot about grounding and tourmaline stones you will find out that you are not that far off that you might think! ? People can be grounded as well with a result of feeling more relaxed. If you are curious you can actually take a hot bath with tourmaline stones and find out yourself! ?

[Cornan]

5 hours ago, moussaobeid said:

Initial impressions of SOTM tX-USBultra:

 

Since this is the tweak thread, I will share my initial impressions of SOTM tX-USBultra here. I got delivery of my unit yesterday, then I plugged it in my system in the evening. What I did is to critically listen to 3 or tracks on my system with  configuration (1):

 

(1) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>RUR (LPS-1)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC.

 

The system simply sounded fabulous, music just flows with a sense of realism and 3D especially after installing my two dedicated circuits (one for digital and another for analogue)

Here I would like to mention that I upgraded my AO from version 2.0 to 2.10 and it made a significant improvement, then I upgraded to the beta AO 2.20 and the sound went to another level (more transparent, wide soundstage and better separation).

 

Then I removed the RUR+LPS-1 and replaced them with the SOTM tX-USBultra powered by the second rail of the JS-2 at 12V (my unit has the 12v option) so configuration (2) is as follows:

 

(2) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>SOTM tX-USBultra(JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC.

 

just out of the box without any burn-in, configuration 2 clearly elevated the sound of my system in all directions, most importantly to me, a sense of feeling that the music is so real and so clear you feel that the notes are sharper and more defined in the soundstage, a veil taken off the music! (a cliche but it accurately describes my experience)

 

I didn't try to power it with the VR MINI because I use it on the Brooklyn and if I change this configuration, then it won't be A/B comparison anymore. My logic now is that I can improve it by freeing the JS-2 from feeding two units and keep it only to Nimitra and get a dedicated PSU to power the SOTM tX-USBultra, but too early now to make any decisions before I get my DC ammeter working.

So (RUR+LPS-1) will be staying with me for a short time to do some A/B comparisons after 1 or 2 weeks when the SOTM tX-USBultra has settled in my system and most probably will be listed for sale.

 

My learning is that isolation by ultra-capacitors is important but super clock with a good LPS can be more important.

 

I hope this helps others on a similar path

 

Really great review Moussa! ?

It helps a lot and make me very interested in the SOtM tX-USBultra. Thanks for sharing! ?

As you already pointed out it would be sensible to use JS-2 for the Nimitra and get a dedicated (floating) PSU for the tX-USBultra. Clocks are known to be sensitive to power supplies so guess you could squeeze out some more great sq! ?

Like @austinpop I am interested how it will turn out without the Intona (and with Elijah USB cables instead of Curious USB cables). 

 

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, moussaobeid said:

I decided to kill this project although I got the voltage to work with my adapter, to get the current measurement I need to properly connect the yellow wire. Anyway, I am returning it and just ordered a new multi-meter that can measure DC current as mine can only read AC current.

I learned something though and had some fun

 

I was sleeping when you needed assistance, but I see you already learnt something for the future! ? I ordered a 12vAC power supply for a 12vDC device ones. Luckily I spotted it before I even got it. I will never do that misstake again. Lesson learned! ? 

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, moussaobeid said:

. I will try a cheapo 12V battery tomorrow with the tX

 

I will follow that experiment with great interest! ?

It would be great to know how a 12v battery compares to VR-Mini as well. Have you tried to power your Brooklyn with battery power?

[Cornan]

@moussaobeid and @austinpop

There is a couple important things with grounding boxes that I have'nt told you all about. For best result the grounding box should be placed on the floor and not on a shelf close to your setup. It should not be close to any metal objects (approx. >20cm distance) and it will perform better if elevated from the floor using non-metal damping feets like wooden block etc.

[mozes]

4 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I was sleeping when you needed assistance, but I see you already learnt something for the future! ? I ordered a 12vAC power supply for a 12vDC device ones. Luckily I spotted it before I even got it. I will never do that misstake again. Lesson learned! ? 

Thanks Cornan I sure did learn something, for this small project I may come to it later and I know what I want to do now

[mozes]

4 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I will follow that experiment with great interest! ?

It would be great to know how a 12v battery compares to VR-Mini as well. Have you tried to power your Brooklyn with battery power?

No I haven't but it shoud be easy to do, one more test to do

[mozes]

24 minutes ago, Cornan said:

@moussaobeid and @austinpop

There is a couple important things with grounding boxes that I have'nt told you all about. For best result the grounding box should be placed on the floor and not on a shelf close to your setup. It should not be close to any metal objects (approx. >20cm distance) and it will perform better if elevated from the floor using non-metal damping feets like wooden block etc.

Lol good you told me, my grounding boxes are all sitting on the same shelf with the units and close to them as well

[mozes]

26 minutes ago, moussaobeid said:

Lol good you told me, my grounding boxes are all sitting on the same shelf with the units and close to them as well

The boxes that I got have very short cables so it has to be on the same shelf. Once I get delivery if my ebay silver wire I will move them to the floor and put them on bamboo plates

[Cornan]

Finally I received my second identical D-Link network switch. Prepared it right away.

 

 

Connected both switches to my Minimus grounding box.

 

 

Installed them both side by side powered by identical TP-Link Vivid BPSs.

 

 

Before I connected them I had a good listen to Novo Amors brilliant EP "Woodgate/NY". That album always gives my stiff neck hairs with my current setup. So it did again! ?

 

 

Connected the second switch and listened again. Definately more gain and dynamics, but the magic is all gone! No shivers of joy. Sound good but the feeling is lost. Not my cup of tea! The second switch will serve my next experiment with the ChromeCast Audio as soon as I have received the OTG cable from China. My guess is that it will do a better job there. Let's see! ?

 

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, moussaobeid said:

The boxes that I got have very short cables so it has to be on the same shelf. Once I get delivery if my ebay silver wire I will move them to the floor and put them on bamboo plates

 

This is methods recommended by Entreq for best results with grounding boxes. To be honest I have not always heard that it makes a noticeable difference. See it as measures to ensure the best performance, but do not expect too much sq difference.

[Cornan]

5 hours ago, moussaobeid said:

No I haven't but it shoud be easy to do, one more test to do

 

I thought I read somewhere that the manufacturer recommended battery power for Brooklyn. I know SOtM are pro battery power as well. Now this only matters if it improves on your perticular setup, but it atleast gives an idea that it is might be worth a shot! ?