The true experimental tweak thread

[austinpop]

25 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Hi Rajiv!

A lot of fun ahead of you now! ?

 

**A chassi screw is not only a GND screw. It is also a mounting screw that is holding the chassi together. You need to loosen one slightly that is attached to the inner metal chassi and clip it on to the small screw head. These small screws are usually found in the outer corners in the back of the units.

 

RE: 1, 2 & 4

Yes, all correct!

 

RE: 3 & 6

See previous ** for best use on chassis. 

 

RE: 4

You can for example use a chepeo Cat5 network cable. Cut it off in one end, strip the wires and attach the crocodile clip to the GND wires (pin 4 & 5). For better results you can order a screw terminal RJ45 plug and attach short silver wires to the GND terminals and attach the crocodile clip to the bare wires. Remember that grounding is best used with silver wires, but high quality copper wires is also good. High gauge is not necessarily better, but high purity metal is important for best result. Also a firm fit of the connector matters.

Here is the wire I use with good results http://www.ebay.com/itm/231487691078 that works with RJ45s as well.

 

Looking at your spagetti image I would personally try the TP-Link router (USB) & Cavalli amp (RCA or chassi screw) as my primary targets.

 

Remember to experiment and have fun! ?

 

Good luck! Looking forward to your impressions. ?

 

 

 

Fun indeed! 

 

Great - you've confirmed what I had already identified as the primary spots, as well as my methodology. I will additionally try it on the Codex (RCA jack) as well as the W10 box (free USB port).

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Fun indeed! 

 

Great - you've confirmed what I had already identified as the primary spots, as well as my methodology. I will additionally try it on the Codex (RCA jack) as well as the W10 box (free USB port).

 

IME it can be a little tricky to find the perfect grounding spot on computers. Do not give up if the first spot does´nt improve sq. It is worth while trying several spots (several chassi points, several USB ports, ethernet ports etc) on computers to find out where it makes the best overall improvements. In general I would say that a pc is best grounded via ac safety ground pin (wall outlet or power strip where the PCs psu is connected to) or chassi ground (try different spots). If you know where the common ground is connected in your computer you want to ground it on or as close to that spot as possible for best result.

[austinpop]

8 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

IME it can be a little tricky to find the perfect grounding spot on computers. Do not give up if the first spot does´nt improve sq. It is worth while trying several spots (several chassi points, several USB ports, ethernet ports etc) on computers to find out where it makes the best overall improvements. In general I would say that a pc is best grounded via ac safety ground pin (wall outlet or power strip where the PCs psu is connected to) or chassi ground (try different spots). If you know where the common ground is connected in your computer you want to ground it on or as close to that spot as possible for best result.

 

Thanks for the pointers. These tips will come in handy. 

 

BTW - the seller forgot to include an US AC plug terminated ground cable in my order as I'd requested, so it is still on its way. Once it arrives, I can try the AC ground.

[Cornan]

27 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks for the pointers. These tips will come in handy. 

 

BTW - the seller forgot to include an US AC plug terminated ground cable in my order as I'd requested, so it is still on its way. Once it arrives, I can try the AC ground.

 

You're welcome! ? AC grounding could actually prove to be very beneficial in your case. For @moussaobeid it is a bit more tricky to know since he has got the "full monty" with a true dedicated mains and all! ? That lucky bastard! ?

[Cornan]

I just cancelled the bloudy Deltaco Cat6a U/UTP Cable so my D-Link can be delivered. Ordered the same cable in another colour (black) from another site and expecting delivery next week. Hopefully I can make a bunch of experiments with daisy chained network switches on my main setup and a series of experiments with the ChromeCast Audio with OTG, USB network card (TP-Link UE-300), network switch (D-Link DGS-105), wireless adapter (TP-Link RE350) & USB wireless adapter (Asus USB N-53) on my low budget setup. Stay tuned! ?

[mozes]

26 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

You're welcome! ? AC grounding could actually prove to be very beneficial in your case. For @moussaobeid it is a bit more tricky to know since he has got the "full monty" with a true dedicated mains and all! ? That lucky bastard! ?

Lol I got the biggest improvement on nimitra chassis and the AQVOX chassis as well even with dedicated mains

[mozes]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks for the pointers. These tips will come in handy. 

 

BTW - the seller forgot to include an US AC plug terminated ground cable in my order as I'd requested, so it is still on its way. Once it arrives, I can try the AC ground.

Why wait, Shouldn't be too hard to build it yourself

[austinpop]

9 minutes ago, moussaobeid said:

Why wait, Shouldn't be too hard to build it yourself

 

I am hopeless with a soldering iron - and don't own one anyway.

 

i do have a spool of extra cable from the seller, so if there are screw-on banana plugs and AC plugs available, I could "build" that. ?

[mozes]

On 2017-04-06 at 4:52 PM, austinpop said:

Hey @Cornan

 

I just started my grounding box experiments last night. Before I say if I'm hearing a difference yet, help me understand what the appropriate attachment points are for the crocodile clips, that are currently the only terminators I have.

 

I just checked, and none of my components have an actual ground post or screw on the chassis. So what would be good attach points? My experiments so far:

1. Amp: clip to outer barrel of input RCA jack
2. DAC: clip to outer barrel of output RCA jack
3. Desktop computer chassis: clip to any metallic spot on back panel of the tower?
4. USB port: plug in a little USB cable - attached to nothing on the other end, then clip to the outer metallic shield of the exposed plug?
5. RJ-45 port - any ideas?
6. Chassis - general. For DACs, amps, switches, accessories etc, what's the best spot on the chassis to clip to?

For reference, here are my latest system diagrams.

 

First, the network chain:

 

 

And then, the audio chain:

 

Hi @austinpop and @Cornan

For the Amp and Dac are you referring to the RCA that is carrying the signal or a spare one? The reason I ask is that I have only tried the spare RCA IN on the Brooklyn and never tried the grounding cable on the RCA OUT that is connected to my amp. I was worried something may go wrong  this is only possible with the crocodile tip

[austinpop]

4 hours ago, moussaobeid said:

Hi @austinpop and @Cornan

For the Amp and Dac are you referring to the RCA that is carrying the signal or a spare one? The reason I ask is that I have only tried the spare RCA IN on the Brooklyn and never tried the grounding cable on the RCA OUT that is connected to my amp. I was worried something may go wrong  this is only possible with the crocodile tip

 

I too was thinking of spare jacks, in general. But now that you mention it, I'm not sure there is any problem grounding a jack in use. Shouldn't be.

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, moussaobeid said:

Hi @austinpop and @Cornan

For the Amp and Dac are you referring to the RCA that is carrying the signal or a spare one? The reason I ask is that I have only tried the spare RCA IN on the Brooklyn and never tried the grounding cable on the RCA OUT that is connected to my amp. I was worried something may go wrong  this is only possible with the crocodile tip

 

It is a spare RCA jack (analogue or digital) you should use. However, I have grounded RCA jacks in use many times without any problems. Remember that grounding does'nt add noises/currents. It removes noises/currents.?

[Cornan]

Just for notes. If you ground analogue RCA jacks make sure to try both left and right jacks. Sometimes one is better than the other IME.

[mozes]

Thanks @Cornan and @austinpop for your answers. I will follow Cornan's advice on the wire and replace the stock wires with a cheapo silver wire from ebay and I can solder it to the crocodile tip myself. For the chassis screw I will just use the bare wire to get the silver in direct contact with the chassis

[austinpop]

On 4/6/2017 at 5:28 PM, austinpop said:

Reposting my topologies with a white background to play nice with preview apps.

 

 

 

@Cornan, @moussaobeid

 

Very limited results with the grounding boxes. Refer to my topology pictures above. Since I have 2 boxes, my methodology was:

• start from the end of my chain at the amp, identify the first grounding point that makes an improvement. Leave grounding box there
• Continue backward with 2nd box until improvement.
• I could not try connecting to any AC outlets until I get my AC ground cables.

 

I got a very modest improvement at the amp (RCA input jack), which I replicated at the DAC RAC output jack too. I had to listen many times to hear this, so it was subtle. It just seemed lo make the image a bit larger, and a bit more separation between instruments.

 

After that, I'm afraid I got no further improvement with the 2nd box. I tried attaching to - 

• sMS-200 USB
• W10 box 
  • chassis
  • USB
• Router (USB)

 

None of these helped at all. In part, I see this as good news, as it means my system is already pretty well isolated from leakage loops.

 

I will retry in a few weeks after the power ground cables get here. Plus - my sMS-200 is going back to SOtM for some mods, so I'll be back on my Aries Mini for a few weeks too.

[mozes]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

@Cornan, @moussaobeid

 

Very limited results with the grounding boxes. Refer to my topology pictures above. Since I have 2 boxes, my methodology was:

• start from the end of my chain at the amp, identify the first grounding point that makes an improvement. Leave grounding box there
• Continue backward with 2nd box until improvement.
• I could not try connecting to any AC outlets until I get my AC ground cables.

 

I got a very modest improvement at the amp (RCA input jack), which I replicated at the DAC RAC output jack too. I had to listen many times to hear this, so it was subtle. It just seemed lo make the image a bit larger, and a bit more separation between instruments.

 

After that, I'm afraid I got no further improvement with the 2nd box. I tried attaching to - 

• sMS-200 USB
• W10 box 
  • chassis
  • USB
• Router (USB)

 

None of these helped at all. In part, I see this as good news, as it means my system is already pretty well isolated from leakage loops.

 

I will retry in a few weeks after the power ground cables get here. Plus - my sMS-200 is going back to SOtM for some mods, so I'll be back on my Aries Mini for a few weeks too.

I am not surprised with your limited results. I only got a significant improvement on the Nimitra. Nothing I can hear on the Brooklyn and I haven't tried anything on my Naim amp. Maybe I should at some time. I got great a improvement with the switch when it was connected to the switching adapter that came with it. I am now powering it from a battery power bank so not sure if this grounding is still making any difference. I kept it as is as I am running out of energy with the tweaks and spending my time testing rather than enjoying my system

[Cornan]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

@Cornan, @moussaobeid

 

Very limited results with the grounding boxes. Refer to my topology pictures above. Since I have 2 boxes, my methodology was:

• start from the end of my chain at the amp, identify the first grounding point that makes an improvement. Leave grounding box there
• Continue backward with 2nd box until improvement.
• I could not try connecting to any AC outlets until I get my AC ground cables.

 

I got a very modest improvement at the amp (RCA input jack), which I replicated at the DAC RAC output jack too. I had to listen many times to hear this, so it was subtle. It just seemed lo make the image a bit larger, and a bit more separation between instruments.

 

After that, I'm afraid I got no further improvement with the 2nd box. I tried attaching to - 

• sMS-200 USB
• W10 box 
  • chassis
  • USB
• Router (USB)

 

None of these helped at all. In part, I see this as good news, as it means my system is already pretty well isolated from leakage loops.

 

I will retry in a few weeks after the power ground cables get here. Plus - my sMS-200 is going back to SOtM for some mods, so I'll be back on my Aries Mini for a few weeks too.

 

Thanks for sharing austinpop!

First of all. Do not loose hope! ? The trick with a grounding box is to find the right spot for it. This is not always the most obvious spots. I have said it many times before and I will say it again. Grounding boxes require experiments to find the right spot for it. If you find the right spot you will hear it right away. No doubts.

Do not mix ground loops with grounding boxes. Grounding boxes do not cure ground loops. They will still be present with a grounding box if you have any in your system. Grounding boxes will reduce shield noises/currents and built up static electricity.

However, if you have spots which have both galvanicly isolated ICs and floating AC mains connections (ex. LPS-1 is not without the help of a IT with floating secondary) a grounding box will likely not do any good, so finding the spots will less than perfect isolation is likely a good spot for a grounding box. Still, you'll need to figure out the best path to ground it to. It might be digital RCA, analogue RCA, chassi ground, AC ground or ethernet ground that works best. Which one depends on the construction of the device you want to ground and where the noises comes from. Impossible to know for sure without experimenting. Keep on trying and I am sure you will eventually find a good spot for atleast one grounding box! ?

[austinpop]

Hey guys - 

 

Do you have a link to the "el cheapo" Chinese silver DC cables on eBay? For some reason, my searches are not locating any.
 

[Ralf11]

try adding "drywall" to the search

[sbilotta]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SLK-Audio-OCC-HIFI-DC-Power-Cable-for-SOLO-L3-/272136453268

[austinpop]

Ah thanks. Has anyone tried this themselves?

 

[sbilotta]

http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/the-hugo-of-streaming?reply=69426746160211149#69426746160211149

I'll be getting one in a few weeks; let you know.

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

Ah thanks. Has anyone tried this themselves?

 

 

Nope, but I've been watching them on eBay if I might need them in the future! Looks well made! ? 

These ones http://www.ebay.es/itm/131847624330 however I own myself and sounds great. They might do shorter lengths if you ask them nicely (original is 60cm from top to tip).?

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Nope, but I've been watching them on eBay if I might need them in the future! Looks well made! ? 

These ones http://www.ebay.es/itm/131847624330 however I own myself and sounds great. They might do shorter lengths if you ask them nicely (original is 60cm from top to tip).?

 

Nice. Thanks for the pointers!

[mozes]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Nope, but I've been watching them on eBay if I might need them in the future! Looks well made! ? 

These ones http://www.ebay.es/itm/131847624330 however I own myself and sounds great. They might do shorter lengths if you ask them nicely (original is 60cm from top to tip).?

There is also a limit to how short you want the DC cable as you don't want the power supply sitting too close to the unit you want to power

[lmitche]

8 minutes ago, moussaobeid said:

There is also a limit to how short you want the DC cable as you don't want the power supply sitting too close to the unit you want to power

This really depends on the situation.  There are times where the shortest cable possible is best. With my lps-1 to Adnaco USB box power, SQ was hugely improved with a 1 inch male to male adapter.  I was very surprised.