Who Owns What?

[Ralf11]

When you buy a CD, do you own the music on it?

 

(maybe)

 

 

 

And when you download an mp3 from Amazon or iTunes, do you own the music?

 

(answer seems to differ based on which source it came from!)

[crenca]

When you buy a CD, do you own the music on it?

 

(maybe)

 

 

 

And when you download an mp3 from Amazon or iTunes, do you own the music?

 

(answer seems to differ based on which source it came from!)

 

Here in the USA, the answer seems to be "whatever the judge says the DMCA and copyright act says to him on that day". If you have the $$ to continue the fight (against the artist, label, RIAA, etc.) you can try to get a different answer (if you don't like the first). Lawyers seem to be saying "it depends"...

[plissken]

When you buy a CD, do you own the music on it?

 

(maybe)

 

 

 

And when you download an mp3 from Amazon or iTunes, do you own the music?

 

(answer seems to differ based on which source it came from!)

 

When you purchase a CD you have obtained a license with which to use it. It's predicated upon copyright. Copyright grants you certain fair uses and then there is the doctrine of first sale that is also bound by copyright.

 

You own that singular copy of music.

[rodrigaj]

When you purchase a CD you have obtained a license with which to use it. It's predicated upon copyright. Copyright grants you certain fair uses and then there is the doctrine of first sale that is also bound by copyright.

 

You own that singular copy of music.

 

IOW, you cannot rip, store and then sell or give away the original CD, without deleting the ripped/stored version. Is that a correct interpretation?

[Bikutoru]

I'd like to know how do I solve this situation -

I bought a CD or DVD, listen/watched it, put it on a shelf. Trying it 5 years later and it just doesn't play any more, tortures my player with weird sounds and finally produces an error. May be a new player cannot process old DRM?

 

What do I do in that case? I paid for it, obtained it legally, kept it in dry place without any temperature extremes.

After a few of these experiences, over last 5 years, all of my desire to buy physical media and own it goes out of the windows. I do remember the promise of CDs being reliable for up to 100 years claim, what a BS!

 

At least thanks for streaming, if something doesn't play I just contact customer support and they usually will fix it in a few days or weeks.

[TubeLover]

I'd like to know how do I solve this situation -

I bought a CD or DVD, listen/watched it, put it on a shelf. Trying it 5 years later and it just doesn't play any more, tortures my player with weird sounds and finally produces an error. May be a new player cannot process old DRM?

What do I do in that case? I paid for it, obtained it legally, kept it in dry place without any temperature extremes.

After a few of these experiences, over last 5 years, all of my desire to buy physical media and own it goes out of the windows. I do remember the promise of CDs being reliable for up to 100 years claim, what a BS!

At least thanks for streaming, if something doesn't play I just contact customer support and they usually will fix it in a few days or weeks.

 

I agree on your streaming point, but do you honestly think that digital copies of music are not far more fragile and likely to eventually have issues than physical media? Wait till you lose a hard drive, or something similar. And for the record, just in my experience, with ownership of over 4000 cd's, a few hundred dvd's, and probably 75 blu ray discs, I've never had one fail, except first time out of the box, on extremely rare occasions.

 

JC

[Bikutoru]

I agree on your streaming point, but do you honestly think that digital copies of music are not far more fragile and likely to eventually have issues than physical media? Wait till you lose a hard drive, or something similar. And for the record, just in my experience, with ownership of over 4000 cd's, a few hundred dvd's, and probably 75 blu ray discs, I've never had one fail, except first time out of the box, on extremely rare occasions.

JC

I do no wait until I loos a hard drive.

My main library is on the Raid level 5 with a stand up spare. I also keep two copies of my main library. One about every week, one every few month. On the other hand some of the CD/DVDs, while looking like they are perfect, not playable, ripple and turned to landfill with very good DRM that turned them that way.

[rando]

The whole of digitized media is predicated upon reasonable expectations of use. If you bought a vinyl record in the 1960's and the kids played frisbee with it in the house two days later you no longer owned the content on that vinyl record. Granted a few people made represses but it was generally understood as impermanent and subject to wear. Nowadays it would be insane to expect someone to buy a physical copy of almost anything and not make a digital copy which is then copied twice more for security.

 

Why, in large part the entertainment industry got so greedy they educated their customers through conduction. Manufactured bands, radio stations that play 35 songs on repeat, low manufacturing quality CD/DVD, cooperatively stagnating consumers options, so on and so on. They attempted to cram too much new down our throats and the very human reaction to tape that special event on tv or get a copy of that one hit wonder from a friend took over. The ideals associated with ownership have been largely replaced with temporary fixation and disposal. When you fail to create, to better, what has come before. Your redundancy is assured.

 

Q: How many copies of a symphony or legendary rock album do you need?

 

A: As many as they can sell you + 1.

[Ralf11]

The person who really deserves to be paid is the artist, who creates the music. (At least if you follow Locke's labor Theory -- or common sense). But they cannot directly use DRM, so if they release something, it can proliferate all over with no payment.

 

OTOH, the artist might get free advertising from widespread proliferation.

 

 

Then there is another huge issue besides all that, I won't name it but will just leave you with this thought:

 

I said a hip hop,

The hippie, the hippie,

To the hip, hip hop, and you don't stop, a rock it

To the bang bang boogie, say, up jump the boogie,

To the rhythm of the boogie, the beat.

[Ralf11]

Suppose I buy a CD and record it onto my computer. The a friend asks to borrow it and I tell him "ok, but only for 1 week."

 

During that week I of course keep the music on my computer.

 

Did I do anything illegal?

 

Does it matter if I listened to the computer version while he had possession of my CD?

Does it matter if he did not listen to my CD?

Does it matter if he COULD NOT listen to my CD as he suddenly changed his mind and put it in my mail slot?

[Jud]

Suppose I buy a CD and record it onto my computer. The a friend asks to borrow it and I tell him "ok, but only for 1 week."

 

During that week I of course keep the music on my computer.

 

Did I do anything illegal?

 

Does it matter if I listened to the computer version while he had possession of my CD?

Does it matter if he did not listen to my CD?

Does it matter if he COULD NOT listen to my CD as he suddenly changed his mind and put it in my mail slot?

 

For CD rips, see Capitol v. ReDigi.

 

 

Do you own the music on an SACD you purchase?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Ralf11]

BTW, Jud is referring to a famous IP music case.

[mansr]

Suppose I buy a CD and record it onto my computer. The a friend asks to borrow it and I tell him "ok, but only for 1 week."

 

During that week I of course keep the music on my computer.

 

Did I do anything illegal?

 

Does it matter if I listened to the computer version while he had possession of my CD?

Does it matter if he did not listen to my CD?

Does it matter if he COULD NOT listen to my CD as he suddenly changed his mind and put it in my mail slot?

In some jurisdictions that's perfectly legal.

[r_w]

It's the writers that create the music. The artist merely performs it... unless the artist also writes... many don't.

 

The perceived value in copyright has deterioted to the point that most don't care about copying and sharing it illegally (and it almost certainly always is illegal to do so)

 

The person who really deserves to be paid is the artist, who creates the music.

[mansr]

It's the writers that create the music. The artist merely performs it... unless the artist also writes... many don't.

 

The perceived value in copyright has deterioted to the point that most don't care about copying and sharing it illegally (and it almost certainly always is illegal to do so)

 

The authors and performers both deserve compensation, whether the same or different person(s). Even a label handling things like distribution and promotion deserves a cut. What the labels don't deserve is the 99% or higher cut they tend to insist on. Apple and Google both take 30% of the revenue from their app stores, and this figure is often regarded as quite high if not daylight robbery.

 

When the artists receive so little (or nothing, if they were paid a fixed amount for the rights to a song/album), it's understandable that piracy becomes seen as somewhat legitimate. After all, it's mostly hurting the labels, and everybody despises them anyway. Not that they're actually hurting nearly as much as they say. Most piracy is done by people who would never have paid for the content anyhow.

[plissken]

IOW, you cannot rip, store and then sell or give away the original CD, without deleting the ripped/stored version. Is that a correct interpretation?

 

In the U.S. that is correct. Once you have sold the CD you have removed all licensing to your use of the content.

[Jud]

There is copyright in both songwriting and performance in the US.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[r_w]

The writer(s) gets paid all performance royalties, the artist gets none (unless they also wrote).

 

Artist gets cut of sales, writer also gets cut of sales = writers make most of the coin over the long term.

 

There is copyright in both songwriting and performance in the US.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[NOMBEDES]

So in the US, at least, we have shops that sell used CDs, DVDs, Vinyl, etc......(books)

The Artist and Label get nothing from the re-sale of this material.

[mansr]

So in the US, at least, we have shops that sell used CDs, DVDs, Vinyl, etc......(books)

The Artist and Label get nothing from the re-sale of this material.

 

And why should they? If I buy a new car, the manufacturer, let's say Ford, gets some money. If I later sell that car to you, does it seem right that Ford should get paid again? They were already paid for their efforts of making the car the first time.

[rando]

Then there is another huge issue besides all that, I won't name it but will just leave you with this thought:

 

I said a hip hop,

The hippie, the hippie,

To the hip, hip hop, and you don't stop, a rock it

To the bang bang boogie, say, up jump the boogie,

To the rhythm of the boogie, the beat.

 

Perhaps you could be of help. I don't speak jive.

[Jud]

The writer(s) gets paid all performance royalties, the artist gets none (unless they also wrote).

 

Artist gets cut of sales, writer also gets cut of sales = writers make most of the coin over the long term.

 

Regarding performance copyright, think of recorded orchestral performance of classical pieces.

 

The writer has all copyrights to a song, but this is subject to a mandatory licensing system in the US. And of course these rights are subject to any other contracts that are made regarding them as well.

[Jud]

So in the US, at least, we have shops that sell used CDs, DVDs, Vinyl, etc......(books)

The Artist and Label get nothing from the re-sale of this material.

First sale doctrine.

[Ralf11]

Besides copyright, there is also a contract issue - you are forced to agree to a contract when you open the shrink wrap on a software disc, maybe also on a music CD. There are statutes (laws passed by Congress). Luckily there is not patent law here (at least, not yet).

 

It will be easier to just talk about the US....

 

My quote above is to trigger the issue of sampling musc by an artist later on - Sugar Hill Gang started this AFAIK, and it is the core of rap, hip-hop...

[rando]

Sampling recorded works is just the new borrowing written ones. Which is the new setting folk songs to paper.

 

I'm sure the creative geniuses selling the acts of creative production would lobby for making it illegal to sing along with the radio if there was a way to enforce it. Harmful reproduction of licensed and copyrighted works, illicit intent to distribute, infringement of intellectual property...