Jump to content
IGNORED

AudioQuest adds MQA Support to Dragonflies via firmware


Recommended Posts

Just now, jhwalker said:

 

Pretty sure you know how to use Google to find current available devices, but to be helpful . . . 

 

You can get the Meridian Explorer2 on Amazon for $199:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Meridian-Explorer2-Digital-Analog-Converter/dp/B00Q6VQGS2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1495326966&sr=8-1&keywords=meridian+explorer2+dac

 

Standard Amazon terms apply (which includes return privileges).

 

I know about that one but I'm doing a balanced setup... 

Link to comment
On 5/21/2017 at 7:55 AM, miguelito said:

Takes the master, eliminates the faults, adds a filter... You are repeating the fairly deceitful pr speak from MQA. Lets break it down:

Removes ADC issues: Just about every current production uses a multitude of ADCs, mixing manipulation, and even no ADC at all (eg electronic synths). So the picture of a mike to an ADC is just about as common as Donald Trump in drag. Then the secret time desmearing sauce. There is no secret. Then the lossy compression then unfolding then the choice of an upsampling algo/dsp. All reasonable choices but nothing that is not available to upsamplers out there. 

You're partly right about multiple ADCs on a production but the part about mics being hardly used is nonsense. I work in the industry and mics get used everyday. The majority of sounds still get recorded using mics and preamps. Even electronic synths as you call them are recorded via DIs. 

Theres commonly 3 sets of ADCs used. 1st when recording, 2nd when mixing and 3rd when Mastering. 

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Gonzbull said:

Theres commonly 3 sets of ADCs used. 1st when recording, 2nd when mixing and 3rd when Mastering.

 

I start to understand better why music recordings may s*ck these days.

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

I start to understand better why music recordings may s*ck these days.

 

That's why DSD is clearly superior, it forces minimal processing.

 

;) (Just kidding, folks!  But certainly you can see the care taken in recording by particular labels, some of which do record for DSD output.  And there are a handful of bigger name artists who take a lot of care with their sound.  Mark Knopfler comes to mind.) 

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Gonzbull said:

You're partly right about multiple ADCs on a production but the part about mics being hardly used is nonsense. I work in the industry and mics get used everyday. The majority of sounds still get recorded using mics and preamps. Even electronic synths as you call them are recorded via DIs. 

Theres commonly 3 sets of ADCs used. 1st when recording, 2nd when mixing and 3rd when Mastering. 

For sure mikes are used! I meant to say the simplistic picture of one mike to one pre to one ADC to the digital file is deceitful. In reality, many different mikes, to many different pres, to many ADCs, to a mixing console, to a digital master is more like it. Correcting the signature of a recording change, as MQA likes to picture it, is not a possible situation for most recordings.

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

Link to comment

.... Sure I have problems understanding what an MQA file is and why is it better than a flac.

Is a lossy compression... at a first glance they're only more little in dimensions than a flac and more resolved than mp3 ...

Maybe Meridian created this format in order to promote their DAC/softwares and make some business with some (flac is a free codec , mqa not).

Downloaded an MQA file from 2L site (MQA original resolution) and what I got is an *.mqa.flac file

My player can read MQA files only if translated in flac... but it read this (being it a flac!?!).

Very confused about all this matter.... o.O

 

Used my DFR with the old firmware on my Mac and I could heard Tidal masters... I wonder what kind of files I was playing (if they're MQA DFR old version could not play it)...

Link to comment
On 5/19/2017 at 4:43 AM, ShawnC said:

The Dragonfly should look (Purple) if your getting MQA

 

 

it does go up to 24/192 on A+3 on some songs others 24/88 or 24/96 at least that is what it says in upper left hand corner of the A+3 page for what the DAC(DFR) is playing but no blue light or MQA like it does if you use the ME2 for same songs(???...) BUT I had to turn the volume all the way up to 0dB on my avr before the firmware upgrade i comfortably listened at -20 to -40 dB-anyone know why

bobbmd

Link to comment
On 5/18/2017 at 7:05 AM, ShawnC said:

Not all Tidal Masters are 24/192, many if not most would be 24/96.  This is still the problem with TIdal, your not exactly sure what version of a Master your getting.  There could also be 24/14, 24/48 like on HDtracks.

 

Nice screen shots above

I got the same readings but I use A+3 and some are 24/192 some are 24/88 some are 24/96 on th DF DAC side in left upper corner BUT I don't have it saying it is an MQA like it says if you use an ME2

bobbmd

Link to comment
On 5/17/2017 at 7:19 PM, crenca said:

 

 

No - we will not just shut up and listen.  Your arrogant underbelly is showing through (you might want to cover it back up).  Your problem is an old one - you want to sell "art" in a mathematical and digital world.  MQA enables you to do that - it covers up a formally open format and formally semi-open process (internals of DACs) in IP and then you get to come along and say "you don't know what you are talking about".  

 

Well, through a slow process we will uncover the voodoo one way or another (rather it turns out to be all that Bob says it is, or something much much less).  Those boys in Russia and China will (sooner or later) let it all hang out.

 

I have an AudioQuest cable being shipped to me right now.  It will be my last AudioQuest product I purchase for the foreseeable future based on your response here.  The choice has been made for your and your company - you have decided to hide behind IP and yell at your customers who will always (always always) look for at the "information" you give out and question it.  

 

Speak of "misinformation" all you want - it's your doing!  YOU have chosen the voodoo (i.e non information) path of MQA!  You brought this all on yourself.

 

I suspect you will be seeing many more emails in your inbox in the future...

WOW such vile/bile, all that guy Gordon is doing is trying to 'splain' something and all you do is rip him a new anal sphincter hole-I love AQ's product- do as he suggests JUST listen to the music and enjoy it who gives a rat's ass how it got there-but you probably can't listen because you are probably a millennial or wish you were one( can you tell time with an analog watch,make change in your head, have ever answered your phone recently have you recently talked to anyone and looked them right in the eye?) bobbmd

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, bobbmd said:

WOW such vile/bile, all that guy Gordon is doing is trying to 'splain' something and all you do is rip him a new anal sphincter hole...

 

He explains very little.  That's fine, he does not have to divulge anything on the technical side if he/Audioquest does not wish.  When he however alleges others of spreading "misinformation" when they in fact speak the truth, well then he has an agenda.  The agenda is "shut up and listen", but that does no fly in a voodoo prone industry such as this one.  Might be fine for you, but there are plenty of us (who admittedly lean toward the "objectivist" side of things) who are simply not going to be satisfied with empty and contradictory marketing speak, particularly with DRM products like MQA

Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

Link to comment
9 hours ago, bobbmd said:

WOW such vile/bile, all that guy Gordon is doing is trying to 'splain' something and all you do is rip him a new anal sphincter hole-I love AQ's product- do as he suggests JUST listen to the music and enjoy it who gives a rat's ass how it got there-but you probably can't listen because you are probably a millennial or wish you were one( can you tell time with an analog watch,make change in your head, have ever answered your phone recently have you recently talked to anyone and looked them right in the eye?) bobbmd

 

9 hours ago, crenca said:

 

He explains very little.  That's fine, he does not have to divulge anything on the technical side if he/Audioquest does not wish.  When he however alleges others of spreading "misinformation" when they in fact speak the truth, well then he has an agenda.  The agenda is "shut up and listen", but that does no fly in a voodoo prone industry such as this one.  Might be fine for you, but there are plenty of us (who admittedly lean toward the "objectivist" side of things) who are simply not going to be satisfied with empty and contradictory marketing speak, particularly with DRM products like MQA

 

I don't think I lean toward the objectivist side of things, but Gordon's tack here was very surprising to me, since he has usually been someone who has liked to talk about data and measurements where they exist.  In this instance he can't (he would certainly be under an NDA concerning MQA and the Dragonflies), but I was still surprised and, to be frank, rather put off by a message that came across to me as "don't look too closely."

 

Of course the overreaction doesn't help - for example, referring to AudioQuest as Gordon's company (he wishes!).  It's Bill Low's company and always has been.  Gordon was brought on at least to help with the design of the Dragonflies; what else he may have worked on, I don't know.  I don't know if he's an employee or a contractor.  What he's probably most famous for is coming up with a way to do async USB that popularized the interface and pretty well made it the leading interface among DACs that it is today.  So if you really wanted to boycott Gordon's products, I suppose you'd swear off all modern USB DACs.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment

So ... Either of this (or all) is happening :

 

 

A. Mr Rankin is not under MQA-NDA and makes up more than we can do all of us together.

 

B. Mr Rankin didn't understand anything of what he has been doing / attempting.

 

C. MQA is hoaxing all of us, including me, but not Mr Rankin.

 

D. Everybody is genuinely co-operating, but the DF just doesn't work as intended and nobody notices.

 

 

Have fun with this multiple choice. Maybe I overlooked possibilities.

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

So ... Either of this (or all) is happening :

 

 

A. Mr Rankin is not under MQA-NDA and makes up more than we can do all of us together.

 

B. Mr Rankin didn't understand anything of what he has been doing / attempting.

 

C. MQA is hoaxing all of us, including me, but not Mr Rankin.

 

D. Everybody is genuinely co-operating, but the DF just doesn't work as intended and nobody notices.

 

 

Have fun with this multiple choice. Maybe I overlooked possibilities.

 

Peter,

 

Really go troll somewhere else.

 

~~~

 

I am under NDA as anyone would be working with MQA.

 

I am not an employee of AudioQuest. I am a hired designer, like I do with the other 18 companies I do work for including Ayre, Berkeley, MBL...

 

crenca, Why do you follow guys like mansr? You know if he is so great then why is he wasting time trying to reverse engineer and put down MQA. Why isn't he out there making a product that is better than all of this? Why because he probably can't and if he can, great it would lend credibility to who ever he is.

 

All this bickering about "HOW" MQA works is useless. The main reason is that you have no idea what is done on the file side of things. What and how the files are encoded and what actually is in the format. Oh sure you can sit around and think as any engineer would about the possibilities. But to truly know what's going on is creating misinformation.

 

Look I say if you don't have a DragonFly, you shouldn't even be on this thread.

 

I have pretty much laid out how it works on the DragonFly, probably more than I should have. If you having issues or want to know how to set it up and stuff then I would be happy to answer it. Or if you are having problems I can help you out.

 

I am not getting paid for this, I am not a spokesperson for AudioQuest or MQA. I am just an engineer who has been programming my whole life. My bio is pretty well known... I designed PC's for a living (540K last count), wrote BIOS code in assembler, developed IC for communications (Ethernet, Token Ring, USB, 802.11 bridges). I left the six largest hardware software company as the Chief Engineer to work on my passion in Audio. Well that and I had 2 Class A products in Stereophile and received product of the year in Absolute Sound. Two jobs was one too many and I had other products to finish like dual DSP SPDIF DACs, preamps and yea even speakers. I have designed and worked on and sold over 165 products since then. It's been a lot of fun...

 

But really posts like this are just too disturbing. It really doesn't make any sense Peter why you even say things like this. It's one of the reasons I don't frequent here more often.

 

Thanks,
Gordon

Link to comment
18 minutes ago, Wavelength said:

All this bickering about "HOW" MQA works is useless. The main reason is that you have no idea what is done on the file side of things. What and how the files are encoded and what actually is in the format.

 

Hi Gordon -

 

There is an easy solution to that, you know.  :)

 

(And yes, I should be saying this to the MQA folks rather than to you, but you're here in effect criticizing people for not knowing more, and who's responsible for that state of affairs?  Yes, in fairness folks don't know how a lot of their audio equipment and software work and many of them don't get too bothered about it, but some of us here are just curious.  We're being told on the one hand we don't need to satisfy our curiosity, and on the other hand we're being criticized for not knowing the info we're so curious to learn.  Curious, isn't it?  ;) )

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

Link to comment

Gordon, glad you took the bait instead of someone else, which may have gotten out of control (I know, my fault).

 

8 minutes ago, Wavelength said:

It's one of the reasons I don't frequent here more often.

 

I fully understand. I really do.

 

The problem I have with your explanations - more than you may have wanted but also more than I can justify, is that, well, I would disagree with about all. And the funny thing is, I should know too ...

No, I am not owning a Dragon Fly, but I do design DACs with lights on it with all sorts of colors. :ph34r:

 

16 minutes ago, Wavelength said:

C. MQA is hoaxing all of us, including me, but not Mr Rankin.

 

D. Everybody is genuinely co-operating, but the DF just doesn't work as intended and nobody notices.

 

I think the above options remain.

 

FYI, I am pro MQA as you are, with the difference that the options you seem to have available are different from mine. So see ? something ain't matching up.

 

You kind of apologize (my wording though) that the DF needs the core decoding in front of it. This is the most peculiar because that is what I beg for but don't get.

Funny eh ?

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

Link to comment
34 minutes ago, Wavelength said:

All this bickering about "HOW" MQA works is useless. The main reason is that you have no idea what is done on the file side of things. What and how the files are encoded and what actually is in the format.

Oh, but we do. That's what reverse engineering is all about.

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

You kind of apologize (my wording though) that the DF needs the core decoding in front of it. This is the most peculiar because that is what I beg for but don't get.

Are you saying you just want to be an MQA renderer, but you don't have that option?  Why not?  That's what Berkeley is doing on their Alpha DAC Reference Series 2.

 

When used with MQA core decoding software such as TIDAL HiFi, Roon, Audirvana, etc. the Alpha DAC Reference Series 2 will provide full MQA decoding while minimizing processing noise within the DAC. This approach results in improved audio quality by splitting the MQA processing overhead between external software and the DAC, resulting in lower noise in the DAC and increased D to A conversion accuracy.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

Link to comment

Also I've had Tidal, I've been evaluating on my Emotiva Stealth DC-1 the 2L tracks. I ordered the Meridian Explorer 2 and need to get some more time with it and the 24/192 and MQA tracks on my ATH-50 and AKG 701's. 

 

Initial blind listening is while the file sizes are certainly smaller and the SQ seems good, I'm not finding the silver lining to getting into a proprietary system. Especially one that doesn't have really much of what I already have re-mastered for MQA (which leads me to ask why don't they 're-master for 24/192 if that is what 're-mastering' is supposed to do). 

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, rickca said:

Are you saying you just want to be an MQA renderer, but you don't have that option?  Why not?  That's what Berkeley is doing on their Alpha DAC Reference Series 2.

What exactly is the BAD ref 2 going to do? Rendering? A quick google search didn't render anything clear.

 

9 minutes ago, rickca said:

When used with MQA core decoding software such as TIDAL HiFi, Roon, Audirvana, etc. the Alpha DAC Reference Series 2 will provide full MQA decoding while minimizing processing noise within the DAC. This approach results in improved audio quality by splitting the MQA processing overhead between external software and the DAC, resulting in lower noise in the DAC and increased D to A conversion accuracy.

At the moment, only TIDAL's native desktop app and Audirvana (and exclusively TIDAL on Windows) can do the "first unfold" to 2x sample rate. Roon does not support this. This means renderers such as the Dragonfly Black and Red will only be able to "render MQA" when used with these apps.

 

As for lower noise/increased D-A accuracy, we shall not go there... :)

 

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

Link to comment
1 minute ago, miguelito said:

What exactly is the BAD ref 2 going to do? Rendering? A quick google search didn't render anything clear.

 

At the moment, only TIDAL's native desktop app and Audirvana (and exclusively TIDAL on Windows) can do the "first unfold" to 2x sample rate. Roon does not support this. This means renderers such as the Dragonfly Black and Red will only be able to "render MQA" when used with these apps.

 

As for lower noise/increased D-A accuracy, we shall not go there... :)

 

I have been using the Tidal App on my MacBook and I am getting the dark purple MQA color on my DFR.  Are you sure it is only TIDAL on Windows?

Link to comment
34 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

C. MQA is hoaxing all of us, including me, but not Mr Rankin.

 

D. Everybody is genuinely co-operating, but the DF just doesn't work as intended and nobody notices.

I think the above options remain.

 

FYI, I am pro MQA as you are, with the difference that the options you seem to have available are different from mine. So see ? something ain't matching up.

 

 

Peter,

 

I know who you are and what you make. Also I am sure MQA would appreciate it if you would not prod questions like this. Anyway... to answer:

 

C) I don't think this is a hoax at all. Bob and the rest of the team at MQA discovered something truly unique years ago. So much did Bob believe in this that he left Meridian to pursue this full time.

 

D) DragonFly is a renderer version of MQA. This means the first unfold is done in the application. The second unfold happens in the DragonFly processor and sent to the ESS90xx DAC chip with custom filters that match the track being played.

 

Thanks,

Gordon

 

 

Link to comment
Just now, citsur86 said:

I have been using the Tidal App on my MacBook and I am getting the dark purple MQA color on my DFR.  Are you sure it is only TIDAL on Windows?

 

For now the Tidal desktop for Windows is the only app. I think that Amara has said it will release next month it's products for Windows and MAC. I know of another product which is a couple months out that will have this support as well.

 

There of course will be more playback options available. If you want the app your currently using to get MQA support then I would ask them to look into it.

 

Thanks,

Gordon

Link to comment
Just now, Wavelength said:

 

For now the Tidal desktop for Windows is the only app. I think that Amara has said it will release next month it's products for Windows and MAC. I know of another product which is a couple months out that will have this support as well.

 

There of course will be more playback options available. If you want the app your currently using to get MQA support then I would ask them to look into it.

 

Thanks,

Gordon

 

So then what am I actually getting when I am listening on my MacBook Pro to TIDAL Masters with DFR and it is glowing dark purple? 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...