Jump to content
IGNORED

microRendu and MQA


Recommended Posts

I think it would not be a good idea to buy MQA files. MQA is a fig leaf for the music industry. It gives them a way to offer, thru streaming, something like hi-res and do it using something like DRM. They can say that they are offering listeners a true hi-res experience without exposing the real high resolution master file to the stream of commerce where it would certainly be abused. They learned their lesson after the file sharing debacle and will not make that mistake again. They will never offer a real hi-res file of any commercially viable music. Maybe classical music recorded in an old church in Norway but not any artist that they can count on to sell in large numbers.

 

You must have a machine that prints money, take every available MQA track on Tidal and multiply by the cost of a hirez disc and then ad in the cost of a hirez dac. If you prefer DSD rock on but to me its not worth the $$$$$ to buy discs, dacs, and SACD players.

Link to comment
You must have a machine that prints money, take every available MQA track on Tidal and multiply by the cost of a hirez disc and then ad in the cost of a hirez dac. If you prefer DSD rock on but to me its not worth the $$$$$ to buy discs, dacs, and SACD players.

 

If you only get music from Tidal, then you will miss out on music which is not available there... Personally, I would probably not want to listen to more than 10% of the MQA tracks available on Tidal so your math makes 0 sense. I have nothing against streaming services if they serve my needs, but I would not, ever, rely on a streaming service entirely, as this limits my music selections.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

Link to comment
You're absolutely right. I hope that the other streaming guys forget about MQA considering they have successful streaming models (Netflix, etc) that prove it can be done in a commercially feasible and an abuse free (almost) way. The studios can keep doing MQA for hi-res downloads if they want, especially if it prompts them to release better masters or re-master for streaming purposes than they otherwise would have; no one will buy the closed-format MQA stuff and it'll eventually die but leave behind a library of better masters in hi-res for streaming.

 

The only problem is those masters are all done in MQA, which would also be worthless without a full software solution. And even those might be subpar unfolded.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

Link to comment
According to Hans' Youtube video (advance to 12:13 minutes in the video) he was advised my Merdian that MQA did not use DRM.

 

 

Depends how you define DRM. Some disagree with Meridian's assessment.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

Link to comment
@jesus

 

I've tried playing Tidal Master streaming in 2 different configurations.

 

1. Linn Kazoo (4.10.173) on Windows 10 PC -> MicroRendu (MPD/DLNA w BubbleUPnPServer running) -> MyTek Brooklyn (MQA enabled).

2. Tidal Desktop (MQA Passthrough) -> USB cable -> MyTek Brooklyn (MQA enabled)

 

In Configuration 1, MyTek Brooklyn can not detect MQA but displays 44.1KHz/16 bit all the time.In Configuration 2, MyTek Brooklyn MQA lights up right away and displays either 88.2KHz/24 Bit or 96KHz/24 Bit.

There are no options to set Linn Kazoo or Openhome renderer to behave differently on MQA stream.

What might be misconfigured to cause the MQA stream not to be detected in Configuration 1? Any help will be much appreciated.

 

Are you able to see the "Masters" folder in configuration 1? I would be surprised to see that so soon.

Thanks...

Link to comment

No, I don't see "Masters" folder in config 1. but I am hoping to get the same MQA files played via the playlist of MQA tracks created from Tidal desktop app.

 

Anyway, I'd like to resolve or get some confirmation of the issue in configuration 2. Are there anyone having the same experience in Configuration 2? Thanks!

Link to comment
  • 5 months later...
On 1/9/2017 at 11:25 AM, comedus06 said:

You're absolutely right. I hope that the other streaming guys forget about MQA considering they have successful streaming models (Netflix, etc) that prove it can be done in a commercially feasible and an abuse free (almost) way. The studios can keep doing MQA for hi-res downloads if they want, especially if it prompts them to release better masters or re-master for streaming purposes than they otherwise would have; no one will buy the closed-format MQA stuff and it'll eventually die but leave behind a library of better masters in hi-res for streaming.

 

That remains to be seen.  

Link to comment
On 1/7/2017 at 9:15 AM, austinpop said:

 

Kudos for stating your position clearly.

 

MQA has clearly decided, for business reasons - also clearly, driven by Tidal - to license a SW decoder that does a partial unfold of their origami, to double the container sample rate. This tops out at 88.2 or 96, and is NOT full MQA decoding in SW. However, it IS a step up in SQ, and enables access to high-er resolution than was ever possible before with Tidal.

 

This has been licensed by Tidal, Audirvana, not sure who else.

 

Having invested $$$ in a non-MQA DAC I really like, I take the opposite view - you guys should license this, because a large fraction of your customers are like me.

 

Now, whether it makes business sense, is it cost-effective, will it even run on your HW - these are your decisions. And I respect your right to make them.

 

But as someone who has been eyeing an mR for a while, MQA on Tidal has changed my parameters. My next NAA/endpoint/renderer needs to do MQA decoding.

 

Not criticizing or judging - just providing customer input.

 

Totally agree.  If it doesn't do MQA decoding or passthrough  I'm not buying.  That, Roon, and Airplay support are must haves for me at this point.

Link to comment
36 minutes ago, DarwinOSX said:

 

Totally agree.  If it doesn't do MQA decoding or passthrough  I'm not buying.  That, Roon, and Airplay support are must haves for me at this point.

Have you actually listened to MQA? I have. Reaction: meh.

 

Some records sounded better, some about the same, some worse. Difficult to compare because clearly some of the MQA albums were also remastered. Not something I'd base major purchase decisions around. Any well done recording/ remaster will make a bigger positive difference than MQA. So will making even a small improvement in your  room acoustics.

 

You can get an MQA DAC for about $100. I'd try one or borrow one before making it the basis of my decisions.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

Link to comment
1 hour ago, DarwinOSX said:

Totally agree.  If it doesn't do MQA decoding or passthrough  I'm not buying.  That, Roon, and Airplay support are must haves for me at this point.

All you need for  MQA passthrough is bit-perfect playback. You will get this with the microRendu and Roon - but you need to make sure to disable all DSP in Roon of course.

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

Link to comment
On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:30 AM, kblundy said:

A bigger question - is there a plan to do the MQA decoding in the microRendu so that those of us without MQA DACs (nearly everyone) will be able to benefit. Is this possible / practical?

In principle, the MQA first unfold could be implemented in the microRendu. I don't think there's a processing power issue: the Meridian Explorer2 does it and is likely less powerful than the microRendu. the second stage of processing is DAC-dependant and I don't think this is really possible to implement if my understanding of the design is correct (which it might not be).

 

However, what I would like is to have the ability to do the first unfold in Roon, do away with all of the DAC-specific processing, and instead use Roon or HQPlayer upsampling/DSP past the first unfold. The current microRendu would work just fine in this case.

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

Link to comment
1 hour ago, miguelito said:

In principle, the MQA first unfold could be implemented in the microRendu. I don't think there's a processing power issue: the Meridian Explorer2 does it and is likely less powerful than the microRendu. the second stage of processing is DAC-dependant and I don't think this is really possible to implement if my understanding of the design is correct (which it might not be).

 

However, what I would like is to have the ability to do the first unfold in Roon, do away with all of the DAC-specific processing, and instead use Roon or HQPlayer upsampling/DSP past the first unfold. The current microRendu would work just fine in this case.

 

The Meridian Explorer 2 is pretty powerful with a Dual Tile XMOS DSP with 16 cores and 1000 MIPS and it does the full unfold.

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, miguelito said:

All you need for  MQA passthrough is bit-perfect playback. You will get this with the microRendu and Roon - but you need to make sure to disable all DSP in Roon of course.

I thought people were saying it was not passing through the microrendu?

Link to comment
2 hours ago, firedog said:

Have you actually listened to MQA? I have. Reaction: meh.

 

Some records sounded better, some about the same, some worse. Difficult to compare because clearly some of the MQA albums were also remastered. Not something I'd base major purchase decisions around. Any well done recording/ remaster will make a bigger positive difference than MQA. So will making even a small improvement in your  room acoustics.

 

You can get an MQA DAC for about $100. I'd try one or borrow one before making it the basis of my decisions.

 

Yes of course I have.  Extensively.  Like most people I hear major improvements.

The MQA dac you are referring to is the Dragonfly black that only does the first unfold.  I have the Meridian Explorer 2 that does the full unfold.

For someone who doesn't know much about MQA it is odd that you assume I haven't even heard it.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, DarwinOSX said:

I thought people were saying it was not passing through the microrendu?

Then the microRendu, in the mode being used, is not working in a bit-perfect manner. Can you point exactly to the thread?

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

Link to comment
1 hour ago, DarwinOSX said:

The MQA dac you are referring to is the Dragonfly black that only does the first unfold.  I have the Meridian Explorer 2 that does the full unfold.

For someone who doesn't know much about MQA it is odd that you assume I haven't even heard it.

The Dragonfly Black and Red do "rendering", they require a software-based first unfold. TIDAL native app (win or mac) or Audirvana (mac) will do this for you giving full unfold -ie complete MQA decoding- out of the Dragonflys.

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

Link to comment
1 hour ago, DarwinOSX said:

 

Yes of course I have.  Extensively.  Like most people I hear major improvements.

The MQA dac you are referring to is the Dragonfly black that only does the first unfold.  I have the Meridian Explorer 2 that does the full unfold.

For someone who doesn't know much about MQA it is odd that you assume I haven't even heard it.

"Most people hear major improvements" is just a conjecture on your part. No actual data behind it. Only your impressions. Your impressions aren't data or facts. No one knows what "most people" think.

 

I apparently know more about MQA than you. The Dragonfly Black doesn't do the first unfold. It is a renderer, which means it applies the MQA "deblurring". It depends on desktop software to do the unfold.

If you look hard the ME2, which actually processes MQA, can be had for about $130. I've done plenty of MQA experiments with it and aren't particularly impressed by MQA.

As I said, I think there are much more effective ways to improve a sound system, and they work for all files, not just MQA files. That's why I don't think it should be anyone's priority in buying equipment.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

Link to comment
2 hours ago, firedog said:

"Most people hear major improvements" is just a conjecture on your part. No actual data behind it. Only your impressions. Your impressions aren't data or facts. No one knows what "most people" think.

 

I apparently know more about MQA than you. The Dragonfly Black doesn't do the first unfold. It is a renderer, which means it applies the MQA "deblurring". It depends on desktop software to do the unfold.

If you look hard the ME2, which actually processes MQA, can be had for about $130. I've done plenty of MQA experiments with it and aren't particularly impressed by MQA.

As I said, I think there are much more effective ways to improve a sound system, and they work for all files, not just MQA files. That's why I don't think it should be anyone's priority in buying equipment.

Heh.  Bzztt.  

I understand some people have to pooh pooh anything new but it sounds like you have some reading to do.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
16 hours ago, barrows said:

Audiophiles should resist MQA, simple as that.  MQA is not bit perfect, and adds artifacts not associated with the original music.  From a technical point of view, MQA is faux high res.  It is bewildering to me that the same people who complain mightily about some hi res downloads and their exact provenance are willing to promote MQA's awful money grabbing policies, exclusivity, and the addition of artifacts to music.

If we do not resist MQA at all points, it may become a standard, and music will suffer for it.  Demand real hi res, not MQA bastardized music.

If the SQ is no good no reason to "resisist", people will not buy. As for your real "hirez", I see those SACD's and DVD-A are taking the world by storm, who in the world would ever use streaming again when they can buy all those wonderful discs?
Good luck with your revolution.

Link to comment
15 hours ago, firedog said:

"Most people hear major improvements" is just a conjecture on your part. No actual data behind it. Only your impressions. Your impressions aren't data or facts. No one knows what "most people" think.

 

I apparently know more about MQA than you. The Dragonfly Black doesn't do the first unfold. It is a renderer, which means it applies the MQA "deblurring". It depends on desktop software to do the unfold.

If you look hard the ME2, which actually processes MQA, can be had for about $130. I've done plenty of MQA experiments with it and aren't particularly impressed by MQA.

As I said, I think there are much more effective ways to improve a sound system, and they work for all files, not just MQA files. That's why I don't think it should be anyone's priority in buying equipment.

Rather pretentious to claim you are the wisest person in the world, don't you think? Why not just start a new thread, you can call it
"Why I am always right and you are all just numb skulls"

Link to comment
58 minutes ago, witchdoctor said:

Rather pretentious to claim you are the wisest person in the world, don't you think? Why not just start a new thread, you can call it
"Why I am always right and you are all just numb skulls"

What's your problem?

 

I made no such claim. DarwinOSX made a statement about how MQA and the Dragonfly work that was patently incorrect, while at the same time accusing me of not understand it and suggesting I read up on the subject.

So not pretentious to claim I know more about it than him - which is all I claimed. It apparently is true, based on his demonstrated lack of understanding of the subject. 

 

He also claimed that "most people" agree with him about MQA. Based on what? There's no basis for such a claim. If you and he like it say so. I have no argument with your taste. But don't try the tired tactic of claiming your opinions have the authority of "most people". 

 

Sorry you don't like the tone, but calling that ignorant isn't pretentious, it's simply a fact. Not understanding your own lack of knowledge and telling others they should "readup" on the subject is clearly also arrogant. 

 

Read the posts again. I reacted to his statement that MQA was a must have feature. So I asked him if he had actually heard it. The truth is that it's pretty clear  that "most audiophiles" still haven't heard MQA. (You pretty much can't unless you have one of a very few new DACs, some specific software, and a subscripton to Tidal or a small number of downloadable files for comparison). At that point he hadn't stated what his experience is with it. I wasn't asking to put him down, but to understand if he was merely taking a position based on enthusiasm without experience or one from experience. I guess I should have phrased it better.  I didn't say MQA sucked, criticize him personally for liking it, or accuse him of having no taste, etc. I simply stated that I didn't think MQA added much to the overall  listening experience and that there are more effective ways to improve a system.  

 

But, apparently the fact that I don't share his enthusiasm for MQA is very hard for him to take. He also used that as a jumping off point to engage in personal invective about how I must be someone who "pooh-poohs" anything new. Without a shred of evidence, I might add.

 

So it's pretty clear who's being intolerant and operating from a position not based on facts. Hint: it isn't me. 

 

Or is the real issue simply that you also can't take it when someone isn't a MQA fanboy?

 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

Link to comment
3 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

If the SQ is no good no reason to "resisist", people will not buy. As for your real "hirez", I see those SACD's and DVD-A are taking the world by storm, who in the world would ever use streaming again when they can buy all those wonderful discs?
Good luck with your revolution.

Hi,

There are more reasons to resist MQA, most importantly is the exploitation of artists, and the Netflixization & limiting of content by the MQA delivery system.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...