Just received: M2Tech Hiface USB interface

[jkeny]

I posted because I saw being discussed USB hubs with 5V external PS. I simply pointed out that you will only get a limited improvement in this approach & that the internal regulators were the limiting factor. I believe this is very useful information for anybody serious about optimising their sound.

 

Now how people deal with this information is up to them. If they come to me and ask me more questions, I will answer but I already publicly posted how to do what I'm talking about. You seem to want to determine how people should deal with this information & removing their choices in the matter.

 

You know it's no different from Pat from Art saying long SPDIF cables are better & that's why he produces them, is it?

 

If you wish all this should be suppressed that's another matter.

 

PS. I already wrote to Chris before my initial post here.

 

[Audio_ELF]

@jkeny ...

 

I (personally) think no-one would have a problem with you posting your first paragraph ("you will only get a limited improvement in this approach & that the internal regulators were the limiting factor"). But that isn't what you posted IIRC.

 

You posted suggesting people modified their HiFace with advise you gave on various other forums, including posting links to the website advertising your own commercial modifications. I don't even think you acknowledged that you were the commercial person the site.google.com link was to. Pat from Art (again IIRC) posts advise that he feels long SPDIF cables are better, but doesn't then provide a link to his website (except in his .sig).

 

If I may say so, you obviously didn't listen to Chris' reply to your message before posting as he has had to delete two posts.

 

Anyway that's all I have to say...

 

Eloise

 

[jkeny]

Ok, then I'm naive in the way the forum works. I should have only posted that paragraph & waited for a question, whereupon I would have given a bit more information, etc. Instead I posted it all at once!

 

Maybe, it's all a matter of degrees but if you think Gordon, Pat or others are posting without people then going to their website on the basis of their posts, then you are the naive one!

 

One difference - I show everybody (that wants to or can) how to do the modifications for themselves!

 

[regal]

Jenky has been good about sharing his info as far as the mods he does, he is mainly providing service for those that don't have the time or know how. And his post was 100% correct so I don't see scolding someone for posting the truth.

 

[Audio_ELF]

Regal ... the rule is simple ... you don't self promote your commercial ventures. You may answer direct questions, and may have link to a commercial venture / website in your .sig; but that's as far as it goes.

 

Eloise

 

[jkeny]

I posted a link to how to do this modification & it was also pulled - this is the ridiculous bit that I referred to. Your excuse was that the information would not be of use to most of the people here (an assumption, I guess) & that therefore you think it is just a veiled way of drawing people to my website. This seems to me a form of censorship & arrogance on your part about the readership here & how they might use this information. Even if people can't or won't do this themselves they would be able to read what the modifications entail & whether they consider it worthwhile or not.

 

I put it to you that I have seen many posts by Gordon, Pat, etc suggesting why their products are technically superior (but not offering instructions on how to DIY them) & I don't see any of their posts being pulled.

 

[Martin Ranger]

Since this is my first post here, what I am about to do might be a bit unfortunate, so if there is a problem, please delete it. Having said that, I think the DIY Audio link that was posted and deleted is a valuable resource. At least it was for me when I was looking for USB-SPDIF converters. So here it comes again:

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/153191-m2tech-hiface-usb-spdif-24-192khz-asynch.html

 

This 35-page long exchange contains a lot of information about modding the HiFace down to replacing the clock. While there is a link to someone who is offering some of the mods, anyone who knows their way around a soldering iron can do these mods.

 

Sorry if this post is inappropriate.

Martin

 

Disclaimer: I just bought a modded HiFace, based on the comments at the DIY Audio discussion.

 

[jkeny]

Thank you Regal, thank you Martin,

Two examples of readers here that are using the DIYaudio instructions I posted on how to modify the Hiface in two very different ways.

 

Martin, as a source of technical information to evaluate if the modifications hold any water & are worthwhile!

 

Regal as a source for doing it himself!

 

Is this not readership democracy?

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

John - Your posts were removed for a couple main reasons.

 

1. Out of respect for the Computer Audiophile readers who dislike very much to read advertisements or potential advertisements in the forum. There is no problem if your customers post or if people who have done the mod themselves post. If there is collusion between you and others to post on your behalf that will not be allowed either. Fortunately there is no evidence of that.

 

2. Out of respect for the Computer Audiophile paying advertisers who support the site and allow it to continue and grow. It's a slap in the face of site supporters when other manufacturers jump in and want something for nothing. Nearly all CA advertisers site back and read the forum without getting involved. It would be a tough pill for them to swallow if their dollars got them the same value as others who sneak advertising posts into the forum. Advertisers that do post in the forum have all talked to me personally about staying within the boundaries. They realize that posting self serving comments actually hurts business because of the backlash received from readers.

 

 

 

Again, when in doubt don't comment. If a product or modification is good enough it will come to the attention of readers organically and be mentioned on the site. This is also where advertising comes into play. If you are interested in promoting your product within the boundaries of this, and most other, site(s) then we should talk about how to accomplish your goals through an ad. I'm not pushing you in that direction, only suggesting the appropriate method that other manufacturers use here on Computer Audiophile and almost every other site.

 

Thanks for understanding.

 

[MichiGoon]

My computer audio system is not terribly sophisticated:

 

PS Audio PPP, Mac Mini, Arcam AVR350, Cambridge Audio 840C (DAC section), Amarra Mini, Vandersteen 2Ce Sigs, Stereovox XV2 digital cable and various Acoustic Zen speaker cables and connects...

 

So I would not say that it's the most revealing system in the world. I know it pales in relation to many of the systems owned by you good folks.

 

But when I went from a Vandenhull Optocoupler glass Toslink cable to the hiFace / Stereovox combo it was a major upgrade. It sounded every bit as-good-as (albeit slightly different) than discs spinning on my 840C.

 

The improvement we heard from jkeny's mod simply enhanced everything I already loved about the stock hiFace --- but GONE was the grain, or edge, that I would sometimes hear in the upper frequencies, and some female vocals. My wife's ears were especially attuned to this benefit -- and, around here, her opinion has lots to do with my ability to satisfy my addiction!

 

As mentioned earlier, my hiFace mod experienced a malfunction. Unfortunate, but John Kenny responded to every one of my emails within minutes (literally) as he attempted to troubleshoot my problem. Ultimately, the unit had to go back to Mr. Kenny. (Postage paid by John) We could not pinpoint the problem. I shipped last Friday and received this John's reply earlier today:

 

"I just this morning received your Hiface & immediately opened it up to test it. Rather than it being a burnt out switch, I found a bad solder joint on the switch to one of the batteries. This prevented this battery from being re-charged. So the battery (that goes under the Hiface) now measures 2.7V The battery is the one that is connected to the LED & this explains how it dimmed after 10 mins (something I couldn't explain at the time) - the depleted battery will recover a small amount of it's charge when left to sit & when reconnected this charge is enough to light the low current LED but at too low a voltage for the Hiface.

 

I have put a new test procedure in place to prevent this problem in the future. Sorry you had to be the one that uncovered this & that you were an international postage away."

 

 

Sure, I'm disappointed that my hiFace experienced this problem, but I can't imagine having been more impressed with the improvement it offered my humble setup. And John's customer service is beyond reproach.

 

Like most of you, I follow many different audio blogs and spend too much time researching new technologies and equipment. If fact, in putting together my system, Chris's (this) website, and all of your posts have had incredible influence on every decision I've made. I've followed all of John Kenny's remarks and suggestions on various blogs, and quite frankly, I don't know what all the fuss is about.

 

I guess common sense tells me when someone is trying to sell me something. I’ve never gotten that sense from Mr. Kenny. And I never would have experienced his mod if he were not so prolific on several blogs.

 

 

[jkeny]

Hi Chris,

I already wrote to you along these lines before my first post below & as you didn't reply I didn't know what your position was/is or indeed my position.

 

I agree that my initial posts seemed to cross the rules outlined above but I don't understand why you pulled the link to the DIY instructions - it's not of a commercial nature whatsoever?

 

I was on-topic in this thread in pointing out that the internal regulators are limiting factors in the Hiface & it was useful information. Sometimes it's difficult to tread the fine line of just giving enough information so as to be useful & yet not to appear self-promoting.

 

I hope you understand this difficulty as I understand your forum's need to be treat all with equanimity.

 

[sq225917]

JK, not sure if it's even worth posting this, but you do overstep the mark sometimes. Chris is a fair guy.

 

The correct response is , as you have done, ask what you should do to stick to the rules, and then follow them. You offer a good service on the back of someone else's great product, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

:-)

 

[regal]

This is a great rule, sick of commercial websites.

 

thanks

 

[jkeny]

Chris,

I've sent you a couple of emails via the website contact us form & I presume you are getting them as I get an acknowledgement back? I would really love to hear back from you as I said in those emails that I wanted to send you a modded Hiface for review & talk about the advertising issues you suggested.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Yes I received them. The second one came in at 1:00 AM this morning. I haven't taken a moment to respond but I will shortly.

 

[Nicholas.Bedworth]

The hiFace is a good product for the money; however, the Weiss INT 202 is considerably better if one is concerned with reference-grade audio quality. The two products are of course not really comparable in terms of their price, scope and functionality, but it is nonetheless instructive to compare how they sound.

 

The hiFace definitely has a broad and deep soundstage with realistic imaging, as OP have correctly noted. However, with 44 kHz source material, violins sound like what casual listeners, without much experience in the concert hall or high-end playback might expect them to sound, rather than how they sound in real life: They're a bit hi-fi, meaning slightly shrill and edgy, and overall presentation is a bit tense.

 

The Weiss, in comparison, produces violins that sound very much like those in real orchestras, namely liquid, delicate, airy, diffuse, purring, buzzing, and definitely not shrill on attacks. The sound from a real violon is generally much softer than most recordings and playback equipment would lead one to believe.

 

The Weiss soundstage is a bit wider and deeper; the separation of ranks of musicians is much clearer, more realistic, and one can appreciate the air between them.

 

On high resolution (88 and 176 kHz) material, the Weiss is much, much better, as one might expect given the difference in price. Check out the new Reference Recordings Britten disc for a performance that will bring all these issues to the fore.

 

What you'll hear overall is a wonderful effortlessness, naturalness and transparency. One can, finally, relax and sink in to the music without any hint of strain. The air in the recording space is just about palpable. There's a "presence", an excitement with this material that's getting quite close to the real thing.

 

IMO Marco and the M2 Tech team have produced in the hiFace a credible and worthy interface that's a very low-risk way for people to try out digital audio. It will be interesting to hear what they can do with a "budget" similar to that of the Weiss unit.

 

[kamil]

Hi Nicholas. Nice assessment, but what platform were you using? Mac or PC? What software? Thanks!

 

[dointhefish]

...the Weiss device is firewire only. Is there a comparable device you know of that uses USB? My hiFace has brought my system to new heights of listening pleasure but I'm always open to the next shiny new upgrade. ;-)

 

[Nicholas.Bedworth]

Hello Kamil,

 

My set up is pretty simple, just a high-spec Toshiba Qosmio laptop running Vista, an external IEEE 1394 Lacie drive for the content, and JRMC (J. River Media Center) version 15 "player" software (which is a modest $40 or so).

 

JRMC supports accessing the stream of music bits using WASAPI, or Windows Audio Services Application Programming Interface. The Weiss provides special data files that when played through the INT 202, give indication as to whether the stream is bit perfect (meaning unaltered by the interface).

 

The hiFace doesn't have this feature, although perhaps they could add it in the future, or in a higher-priced product.

 

If you are a big iTunes fan, of course the Mac platform may be preferable. On the other hand, top-of-the-line HP PCs are one-half the price, even less sometimes, than similar Macs.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Nick

 

[Nicholas.Bedworth]

BTW doesn't your computer have Firewire on it, somewhere? It's really funny, but people will tell me that their XYZ laptop doesn't have Firewire, but after a few minutes of searching, they find the tiny connector Many consumer laptops at Costco or Best Buy support IEEE 1394, probably for use with camcorders, as do some of the higher-spec Mac notebooks, although they are very, very expensive for their specs.

 

Keep in mind that IEEE 1394/Firewire has been the standard interface in the audio industry for a whole generation, and lots of issues have been worked through.

 

Now, to answer your question directly, think of the overall system as comprising two components: an interface to the computer or server, and then the DAC... dCS makes a reference grade USB to S/PDIF converter for $5000, which would make a dandy interface to any DAC.

 

Resolution Audio has their new Cantata music center product coming up soon, which has an interface to almost anything (Ethernet, USB, etc.) except IEEE 1394. This product includes a DAC, sells for about $6500. It should be very versatile.

 

[kamil]

That's useful to know.

p.s. Love your web App.

 

[labjr]

 

"...as do some of the higher-spec Mac notebooks, although they are very, very expensive for their specs."

 

So are many of the DACs including Weiss and even more so because they are in the "high-end" line. Like twice as much.

 

[Nicholas.Bedworth]

What I probably should have said was, equivalently-spec'ed Macs... as you know, all the high-end Windows PCs and Macs basically have the same CPUs, same GPUs, same just about same everything, so there's not too much difference in measurable performance at the hardware level.

 

Thus they're both about equally reliable, or perhaps unreliable would be more accurate.

 

Last time I checked, Mac still wasn't able to license Blu-Ray or deploy HDMI, and it may never happen. Some MBP use these really nice LED LG/Philips screens, which are a notch above the ordinary.

 

So with the Mac, you pay 2-3 times as much for a technically similar product, but without Blu-Ray or HDMI and less disk space, fewer USB ports, etc. At least with Weiss, Berkeley, et al., there's a significant improvement in performance compared to products selling for one-third or half as much.

 

 

[labjr]

At least with Weiss, Berkeley, et al., there's a significant improvement in performance compared to products selling for one-third or half as much.

 

 

Like the difference between the DAC2 and Minerva?

 

[labjr]

At least with Weiss, Berkeley, et al., there's a significant improvement in performance compared to products selling for one-third or half as much.

 

 

Like the difference between the DAC2 and Minerva?