Abtr Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 11 hours ago, UkPhil said: Interesting, does anyone have a tidal account to see if their is a true mQa version to stream under its master catergory ? Yes, there is. Current audio system Link to comment
Mayfair Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 17 hours ago, Currawong said: I captured the output of the Qobuz version of track 1, and it looks like MQA, with a band of noise above 16 kHz, so very possibly not. Ignore the extra at the end of the track, it continued to track 2 before I stopped it. If they did their "white glove" treatment of it, then it might be ok. Thanks for doing the audio analysis! I was leery that there was a different version in unadulterated FLAC given all the fussing the Metropolis label made about the album being "MQA encoded" and with the interview with the recording engineer singing the praises of MQA featured on the official MQA website. If it's reasonable to conclude that they released what appeared to an MQA-enabled DAC on @UkPhil's system to be non-MQA FLAC , but I presume was actually MQA in a FLAC container, couple questions come to mind: Does that mean the version of Nina Simone: Montreux Years that was released for download on HDTracks and Qobuz is even more compromised compared to authentic FLAC than a "regular" MQA file, if it is actually an MQA-encoded file that won't light up the pretty blue MQA "authentication" light? and, How are we to have any confidence in purchasing downloads if they are advertised as 16-bit or 24-bit 44.1 kHz downloads but may be actually MQA in FLAC containers? Link to comment
Popular Post Cebolla Posted July 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Mayfair said: Does that mean the version of Nina Simone: Montreux Years that was released for download on HDTracks and Qobuz is even more compromised compared to authentic FLAC than a "regular" MQA file, if it is actually an MQA-encoded file that won't light up the pretty blue MQA "authentication" light? and, How are we to have any confidence in purchasing downloads if they are advertised as 16-bit or 24-bit 44.1 kHz downloads but may be actually MQA in FLAC containers? You need to be careful defining exactly what you mean by "MQA in FLAC containers" - MQA tracks are distributed undecoded usually in FLAC container files, such as TIDAL's MQA containing FLAC file tracks. Presumably, you are referring to the possibility of already decoded MQA tracks in FLAC container files. Mayfair and Jeff_N 2 We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
Mayfair Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Cebolla said: You need to be careful defining exactly what you mean by "MQA in FLAC containers" - MQA tracks are distributed undecoded usually in FLAC container files, such as TIDAL's MQA containing FLAC file tracks. Presumably, you are referring to the possibility of already decoded MQA tracks in FLAC container files. Thanks for the explanation and clarification. Link to comment
Cebolla Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 On 7/1/2021 at 8:41 AM, UkPhil said: Interesting, does anyone have a tidal account to see if their is a true mQa version to stream under its master catergory ? Searching should indicate which albums are MQA masters or not, even if you don't log in to TIDAL, via TIDAL's web player. A search for montreaux years simone & selecting albums lists two versions of the relevant album with the exact same June 25 2021 date, tracks, & track times and both marked as master: https://listen.tidal.com/album/185086358 https://listen.tidal.com/album/188847768 Of course you do need a TIDAL HiFi account in order to play their tracks under the TIDAL masters quality setting. Interestingly, playing the first track of each album reveals that they are both studio/blue masters (as opposed to plain/green masters), both hi-res MQA (as opposed to MQA-CD) with an undecoded resolution of 24bit/44.1kHz and both with an MQA original sample rate of 44.1kHz - so why have two MQA album versions with the same MQA attributes? A more subtle difference between them, perhaps - if so what? On 6/29/2021 at 10:03 AM, UkPhil said: Qobuz does not seem to have any MQA signalling, I tested it yesterday Presumably, your test method does actually signal MQA on known MQA albums on Qobuz, such as those mentioned in: We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
Popular Post KeenObserver Posted July 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2021 Is this a preview of what a MQA world would be? Only MQA being available? With MQA telling you that it is "better"? This miserable scheme needs to just die and be buried, and yet it keeps coming back over and over. They must expect to make a killing on this scheme. They must expect to really screw the music consumer. lamode, OldHardwareTech, Currawong and 2 others 4 1 Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
UkPhil Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 On 7/2/2021 at 3:00 PM, Cebolla said: Searching should indicate which albums are MQA masters or not, even if you don't log in to TIDAL, via TIDAL's web player. A search for montreaux years simone & selecting albums lists two versions of the relevant album with the exact same June 25 2021 date, tracks, & track times and both marked as master: https://listen.tidal.com/album/185086358 https://listen.tidal.com/album/188847768 Of course you do need a TIDAL HiFi account in order to play their tracks under the TIDAL masters quality setting. Interestingly, playing the first track of each album reveals that they are both studio/blue masters (as opposed to plain/green masters), both hi-res MQA (as opposed to MQA-CD) with an undecoded resolution of 24bit/44.1kHz and both with an MQA original sample rate of 44.1kHz - so why have two MQA album versions with the same MQA attributes? A more subtle difference between them, perhaps - if so what? Presumably, your test method does actually signal MQA on known MQA albums on Qobuz, such as those mentioned in: Yes, I see 2L on Qobuz as MQA blue dot with the streams, to be honest the stream I tested for Nina Simone was 24/96 so it wouldn't be a true MQA file anyway as it's base rate would be 24/48 in this case so is the conclusion here that we are getting processed MQA master files pre processed in the PCM FLAC file, and what actually is that going to do to the sound quality, as we do not know what the original sounds like anyway. Link to comment
UkPhil Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 23 minutes ago, UkPhil said: Yes, I see 2L on Qobuz as MQA blue dot with the streams, to be honest the stream I tested for Nina Simone was 24/96 so it wouldn't be a true MQA file anyway as it's base rate would be 24/48 in this case so is the conclusion here that we are getting processed MQA master files pre processed in the PCM FLAC file, and what actually is that going to do to the sound quality, as we do not know what the original sounds like anyway. Also what advantages does the Tidal MQA files "unfolded" version have over the mastered MQA version as PCM (FLAC) available elsewhere all their special sauce has been built in hasn't it ? It's pretty messed up isn't it ?? Link to comment
lucretius Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 10:04 AM, UkPhil said: It's pretty messed up isn't it ?? It sure is! mQa is dead! Link to comment
Popular Post Nikhil Posted July 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 7, 2021 I signed back on to Tidal this week to test a new streamer DAC. Tidal is absolutely "infested" with MQA ... almost nothing else available in most cases. What is annoying is that MQA has managed to successfully trojan horse themselves into almost all the new gear out there. The streamer DAC I am listening to is a really special piece with a femto clock (which probably does more to improve the sound than anything else), an excellent Sabre ES9038PRO implementation that flawlessly plays DSD512 along with a great linear power supply. But so many are going to attribute the superb sound to a $0.02 POS digital filter which at most affects the sound marginally. Having seen all this unfold over the last few years has made me completely disenchanted with the industry. Right from the music labels, the audio publications and press, the audio manufacturers (albeit many due to customer demand) right down to the local audio dealer - the entire lot have been complicit in propagating this scam. . Hugo9000, Archimago, March Audio and 9 others 11 1 Custom Win10 Server | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Lampizator Amber | Job INT | ATC SCM20PSL + JL Audio E-Sub e110 Link to comment
JoeWhip Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Well said. I feel the same way. Link to comment
botrytis Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Hence why I am keeping my Teac UD-501 until it drops dead. Teresa 1 Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
ssh Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Bricasti has not drunk the Fool-Aid. MikeyFresh 1 SSH Link to comment
botrytis Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 2 hours ago, ssh said: Bricasti has not drunk the Fool-Aid. I have heard theirs but can't afford that one. Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
ssh Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, botrytis said: I have heard theirs but can't afford that one. I loved my Yggy/Raggy rig. I had the Yggy for five years. The Bricasti M3, to my ears, was more musical, more detailed, blah, blah, but when I removed the Raggy from the new setup and had the M3 connected directly to a Apollon Class D amp (with over three times the power) it just another ballgame. I found great value in both systems, with the M3/Apollon being about twice the "investment". SSH Link to comment
Popular Post ChrisG Posted July 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2021 Linn hasn't drunk the Fool-aid either and my Organik KDSM sounds great! botrytis, ssh and MikeyFresh 3 ChrisG Bend, OR Link to comment
FredericV Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 What a funny paradox by HB, but I can at least confirm those among the club winning best of show in Munich, do not use MQA at all to reach this award. We personally asked several reviewers. Seen in the secret mQa group: I remember the same paradox with SACD vs CD all the way back in early 2000. PS: not convinced about the shift in cross-over point: https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19396 Quote Data shows that listeners were not able to significantly discriminate between MQA encoded files and the unprocessed original due to several interaction effects. MikeyFresh 1 Designer of the 432 EVO music server and Linux specialist Discoverer of the independent open source sox based mqa playback method with optional one cycle postringing. Link to comment
Popular Post GoldenOne Posted July 15, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2021 Ah yes, that's what my life was missing, MQA SpaceJam.... The Computer Audiophile, UkPhil, MikeyFresh and 1 other 4 https://youtube.com/goldensound Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara Link to comment
JoeWhip Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 I agree, how could I possibly go on without it!😎 Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Where does MQA stand now? Seems like there have been a number of people closely deconstructing and examining MQA. They are finding it to be smoke and mirrors masquerading as a new paradigm. All these years of BS. It's been long enough. Just go away. Where does Tidal stand? Are they still promoting MQA? Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Confused Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 2 hours ago, KeenObserver said: Where does Tidal stand? Are they still promoting MQA? Yes Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
UkPhil Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 8 hours ago, KeenObserver said: Where does MQA stand now? Seems like there have been a number of people closely deconstructing and examining MQA. They are finding it to be smoke and mirrors masquerading as a new paradigm. All these years of BS. It's been long enough. Just go away. Where does Tidal stand? Are they still promoting MQA? It’s all gone pretty quiet since @GoldenOneouting, I wonder what they have left up there sleeve , pretty stuck with just Tidal now as most of the other streamers are running PCM as a lossless tier. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 I’d say it’s all up to two things. mQa flys if: 1. Spotify uses it or 2. Labels force it upon streaming services or it dies. UkPhil 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
MaxBuck Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 I still really don't understand the antipathy toward MQA, aside from the marketing babble its promoters use. Doesn't it provide the opportunity to stream high-quality audio while minimizing data usage? For that purpose alone it seems like a good idea. Many people are somewhat data-limited, and the ability to lower their GB costs strikes me as a good thing. But I'm sure I'm missing something here. Bottom line: all the anti-MQA talk I've heard and read focuses purely on the "MQA = bad" canon without providing any reasons as to why it's bad. (And don't cite that it "violates the creative output of the recording engineer." I really couldn't care less what they might want.) Currawong, yahooboy, JSeymour and 1 other 4 Link to comment
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