MQA is Vaporware

[The Computer Audiophile]

Thread cleaned up. 150+ posts hidden. Sorry if your posts were accidentally caught up in the clean up and you think they should be brought back. Just let me know. 

[Fast and Bulbous]

Thanks Chris. 👍

[BassFace]

Just joined after reading you site for a few months now.  Its took me all week to read the last 50 pages or so haha.  Great subject, I have tried all the streaming services, formats, trying all the trials and subscribing to several in the past 18 months since lockdown, moving from a MQA DAC to a Chord DAC over the past 3 months.  I enjoyed MQA but believe I should get what I pay for so will be finally cancelling Tidal this month after enjoying it for its great Reggae/Dub selection.  Im now doing the same with the new Audirvana Studio Trial and looks like I will subscribe to that hoping the bugs get fixed better. 

[Rt66indierock]

On 6/7/2021 at 1:10 AM, jparvio said:

 

Not sure who this was targeted to..?  Me?

 

When it comes to MQA I don't use it. I even moved from Tidal to Qobuz the minute they officially offered service in Finland since I don't accept Tidal´s MQA policy (replacing originals with MQA-versions). I believe people should be left with freedom of choice but they need to be educated so that they can select wisely.  

 

I'm not for foisting anything to anyone. Except for the truth when it comes to MQA. Saddens me to see where this all has lead; stationary War between the sides, much like the WW1.

 

What a shame, really.   

 

Jussi, here is how it looks to me. Investors put in $52 million and are committed to put in in another $13 million. The labels contributed $11million in services and about 200 plus members of audio press actively supported MQA. The oposition was a few real professionals, some very good engineers and more than a few audiophiles thought things seemed fishy.  

 

I never liked WW1 analogies but if this is staionary war, the casulaties are investors money and audio journalists. The investors can spend all the money they want but it won't change the outcome. And if we lose 300 to 400 audio journalists I don't have a problem with that. They all have nice portfolios of ad copy, what you call reviews to for their next employers.

[idiot_savant]

Well, I think we’re missing the bigger picture here…

$billions here, $billions there yet the best joke I’ve ever made is lost as collateral damage. And bringing it back loses the zeitgeist. I hate you, Crazy guy!
 

some kind of perspective would be appreciated 😉

 

( this is *perhaps* off topic )

 

your friendly neighbourhood idiot 

[Samuel T Cogley]

Can there really be as many as 400 "audio journalists" on the planet?  Seems like a high number.

 

Opposing mQa has at least one of those "audio journalists" using words like "partisans".  The implication being that their whole-hearted endorsement of mQa is something that's deserved and proper, and that the purveyors of this latest bit of lossy-encoder-meets-DRM should be believed without question.  But any skepticism or open analysis of the codec is dismissed out of hand as the work of anonymous, unskilled "partisans".

 

Isn't this like the very first thing you learn in Propaganda School?  Like the first day?  I mean, they're hardly even trying to hide it.

 

 

[jparvio]

5 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Jussi, here is how it looks to me. Investors put in $52 million and are committed to put in in another $13 million. The labels contributed $11million in services and about 200 plus members of audio press actively supported MQA. The oposition was a few real professionals, some very good engineers and more than a few audiophiles thought things seemed fishy.  

 

I never liked WW1 analogies but if this is staionary war, the casulaties are investors money and audio journalists. The investors can spend all the money they want but it won't change the outcome. And if we lose 300 to 400 audio journalists I don't have a problem with that. They all have nice portfolios of ad copy, what you call reviews to for their next employers.

 

I hear You loud and clear and I don't disagree at all.

 

Let me put it this way from a JOURNALIST´s point of view; one should activate readers by letting them know all there is to it (facts only). I have seen very few JOURNALISTS to do even this. I do not worry about those who are openly supporting mqa.At least they are out in the open. But there are many more pro writers being silent and just anxiously waiting this to come to an end - one way or the other. It is so much easier.

   

[Phil Baker]

The MQA videos are posted on Neil Young Archives at  https://neilyoungarchives.com/news/6 with appreciation given to GoldenEar. Neil pulled all his albums from Tidal earlier this year because they referred to them as Masters.  He's written extensively about how MQA is trying to solve a problem that no longer exists and risks the future of audio recording by trying to redefine and sow confusion about what a hi-res master is.

[Fast and Bulbous]

Hi Phil

Great to hear from you here. And to see Neil continuing his efforts with integrity.

The irony of Pono and the failure to deliver the intended initial file format for it, by what would become MQA, is not lost in all of this. That Neil chose Ayre and Charley H as the eventual designer of much of the internals for the PonoPlayer led to the meetings and dialogues between Neil and Charley, online and face to face, that very early on accurately saw through MQA - technically and commercially and exposed their overall strategy. 

This ain't over...

ian

[Currawong]

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/06/08/cue-spatial-audio

 

Eddy Cue on Dolby Atmos/Spacial Audio:

 

Quote

So we went after the labels and are going to the artists and educating them on it. There’s a lot of work to be done because we have, obviously, tens of millions of songs. This is not a simple “take-the-file that you have in stereo, processes through this software application and out comes Dolby Atmos.” This requires somebody who’s a sound engineer, and the artist to sit back and listen, and really make the right calls and what the right things to do are. It’s a process that takes time, but it’s worth it. […]

 

*COUGH*

[lucretius]

11 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

And if we lose 300 to 400 audio journalists I don't have a problem with that. They all have nice portfolios of ad copy, what you call reviews to for their next employers.

 

No worry, there are lots of content mills.

[Rt66indierock]

17 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Can there really be as many as 400 "audio journalists" on the planet?  Seems like a high number.

 

Opposing mQa has at least one of those "audio journalists" using words like "partisans".  The implication being that their whole-hearted endorsement of mQa is something that's deserved and proper, and that the purveyors of this latest bit of lossy-encoder-meets-DRM should be believed without question.  But any skepticism or open analysis of the codec is dismissed out of hand as the work of anonymous, unskilled "partisans".

 

Isn't this like the very first thing you learn in Propaganda School?  Like the first day?  I mean, they're hardly even trying to hide it.

 

 

 

I've heard some big numbers at Munich, more than 500 press credentails issued. 

 

If you question MQA you are questioning the authority structure of high end audio. Which is to influence audiophiles not inform them.

 

If you know American history this is obvious. Calls for civility are used to silence dissent. Calls for fairness are used to manipulate debate.  See Jim Austin's  column and Armir's lates adventures with his readers about MQA for examples of the new fairness tactic.

[Rt66indierock]

12 hours ago, Fast and Bulbous said:

Hi Phil

Great to hear from you here. And to see Neil continuing his efforts with integrity.

The irony of Pono and the failure to deliver the intended initial file format for it, by what would become MQA, is not lost in all of this. That Neil chose Ayre and Charley H as the eventual designer of much of the internals for the PonoPlayer led to the meetings and dialogues between Neil and Charley, online and face to face, that very early on accurately saw through MQA - technically and commercially and exposed their overall strategy. 

This ain't over...

ian

 

I think Charles Hansen would happy with the resistence to MQA. I've been fighting it and all the misinformation about Bob Stuar's track record for five years. I have another ten years left in me.

[KeenObserver]

12 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I've heard some big numbers at Munich, more than 500 press credentails issued. 

 

If you question MQA you are questioning the authority structure of high end audio. Which is to influence audiophiles not inform them.

 

If you know American history this is obvious. Calls for civility are used to silence dissent. Calls for fairness are used to manipulate debate.  See Jim Austin's  column and Armir's lates adventures with his readers about MQA for examples of the new fairness tactic.

 

In this field I think there are very few that I would consider journalists. There are many that repeat the talking points and ad copy and are given status by the manufacturers.

[KeenObserver]

4 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I think Charles Hansen would happy with the resistence to MQA. I've been fighting it and all the misinformation about Bob Stuar's track record for five years. I have another ten years left in me.

 

Please do not suggest that we have ten more years of this BS!

[Nikhil]

13 hours ago, Fast and Bulbous said:

Hi Phil

Great to hear from you here. And to see Neil continuing his efforts with integrity.

The irony of Pono and the failure to deliver the intended initial file format for it, by what would become MQA, is not lost in all of this. That Neil chose Ayre and Charley H as the eventual designer of much of the internals for the PonoPlayer led to the meetings and dialogues between Neil and Charley, online and face to face, that very early on accurately saw through MQA - technically and commercially and exposed their overall strategy. 

This ain't over...

ian

 

 

I had no idea earlier that Charley was in contact with mqa over PonoPlayer.

His posts on here are interesting looking back.

 

Thanks to Google here is a sample from 2017 

 

Charley's posts on this thread were always interesting and educative.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[The Computer Audiophile]

26 minutes ago, Nikhil said:

 

 

I had no idea earlier that Charley was in contact with mqa over PonoPlayer.

His posts on here are interesting looking back.

 

Thanks to Google here is a sample from 2017 

 

Charley's posts on this thread were always interesting and educative.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

I talk about it here - 

 

 

[Fast and Bulbous]

Charley was not in contact with BS or MQA. No way.
 

When Pono was announced on KickStarter it was going to use this new and fantastic file format. It was not delivered on time and so the Pono team had to find an alternative. Several potentials were lined up and, as I understand it, Neil blind listened to them and went something like “nah”, then “maybe” as he went along the line. Then listened unknowingly to the Ayre system and just said “make it sound like this”, or similar. I watched Neil do the same with the very high end Sennheiser headphones. He really listens. 
 

Neil visited the Ayre factory and Charley at his home in Boulder. A day was spent talking about music, Pono, Ayre, strategy and something of MQA. Charley was scathing, and informed, including the history of Meridian.  Neil became a fan of Ayre and of Charley. At the factory visit he was shown the Shallco volume control used in Ayre preamps and amps. If you have not seen it, is quite something. The sound it makes is now used on Neil’s Archives site. 
 

All a bit off topic maybe, but part of the weave that brought us to here. Those dialogues informed the Ayre team, they have maintained that integrity. 

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, KeenObserver said:

 

In this field I think there are very few that I would consider journalists. There are many that repeat the talking points and ad copy and are given status by the manufacturers.

 

Journalism died March 13, 2006 in Durham North Carolina. Duke Lacrosse

 

I'm sure I will have a sheep or shill moment or two this weekend at T.H.E. Show.

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, KeenObserver said:

 

Please do not suggest that we have ten more years of this BS!

 

I was told last month I'll be working for 10 more years. Easy enough fight whatever licensesing schem someone comes up with in that time.

[botrytis]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I was told last month I'll be working for 10 more years. Easy enough fight whatever licensesing schem someone comes up with in that time.

 

You have way more gum shun then I do. Hats off to you.

[Rt66indierock]

Let the fun begin at T.H.E. Show.

[botrytis]

Have FUN!!!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Not sure how many people receive Bob Lefsetz email letter, but check out this text from tonight’s email. He received this from an engineer in the industry. You could replace every instance of Spatial Audio with the letters mQa. 

https://lefsetz.com/wordpress/2021/06/11/spatial-audio/

 

"I just want to try and alert you to the potential seismic scam happening with this Atmos roll out.  Atmos catalog remixing is being done by the truckload in a handful of Nashville, LA, and NYC rooms right now and has been for a couple of years, and almost none of it is being overseen or approved by the artist or original producer or mixer.  And these versions- according to Apple- will be the new standard versions, superseding the original versions, now designated by Apple to the dustbin of history.

I have heard some Atmos mixes which were indeed an improvement.  However, most are not.  And I would like to steer you toward this demo from Apple to get a sense of their mindset

https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/introducing-spatial-audio/pl.af1ad34ef38543dd8bcdfc11356bd00e

In the rush to make content for Apple, labels are jamming this crap out with little QC and -again- almost no input from artists.  This format has real potential but if they continue to try and tell us that shit like this 'new' version of 'What’s Going On' is better than then original, then it will be seen as a counterfeit and a fraud, and will go the way of the Home Pod.   I know how you feel about catalog being remixed and this has potential to be a worst case scenario."

[AudioDoctor]

My experimenting with Apple Music ended today when I cancelled my subscription. I know that Apple won't care because there are many many people that are subscribed, but it makes me feel better.